Question 1: In-ears or wedges?

Question 1b: If wedges, one or two for the singer? (this is a cardiod vs supercardiod based follow up)

Question 3a, 3b & 3c) How big is the PA? Is phantom power available? Soundtech or mix from stage?

Question 4) Wireless?

Question 5) Does the singer also play harmonica through the vocal mic?

Question 6) Budget?

I will go on record as to how unpleasant an unappealing my recorded or amplified voice is to me. It not only sounds off, it sounds like somebody else. I hate my voice through an SM 58; I think I sound less objectionable with an SM 57. To my ears, (for stage use), I sound most acceptable through the Sennheiser e865 condenser mic.

Finally, stage volume can make a decent FOH vocal almost impossible. Between too loud instruments, and wedge monitors blasting away, there isn't much room left to get the voice into the mic and out to the audience.

Take in the answers you get here, rent or borrow some mics from L&M, and try them out. You may find that the mic the singer likes the best isn't what works best in context.

 

Question 1: In-ears or wedges?

Question 1b: If wedges, one or two for the singer? (this is a cardiod vs supercardiod based follow up)

Question 3a, 3b & 3c) How big is the PA? Is phantom power available? Soundtech or mix from stage?

Question 4) Wireless?

Question 5) Does the singer also play harmonica through the vocal mic?

Question 6) Budget?

1) single bose tower with his and the harmony vocals through it
3) as above (it's a bar but not a huge one)very crowded stage/corner, unsure about phantom, mix from stage
4) no
5) no
6) not my money, but I know he likes expensive guitars, so…
7) don't know

 

You can never go wrong with the Neumann KMS105. The clarity of that mic is outstanding.

 

Love your sound

 

Can you describe how you feel the SM58 is lacking for his voice? As it’s kind of the baseline vocal mic in most joints there’s lots of info comparing other mic’s to it. I also second the idea on “rent some mic’s and try them out through the same rig” I much prefer the beta 58 to SM58 for example. Good hunting!

 

Exactly this, L&M will rent you all the usual suspects to try out and compare, but we could help narrow it down if you give some detail as to how the 58 is underwhelming (personally I find a 57 better for me - you do get more plosives, but also a bit more low mid bite).

The usual suspects for selection:

Shure 57
Shure 58
sE V7 (no more expensive than a 58 and a really good mic - supplanting the 58 in a few places)
Beyerdynamic M88 (the most expensive, but also Phil Collins personal choice; tougher grille than a 58; hypercardioid vs the rest so better off axis rejection; lovely sounding low end - so much so that it is also used on floor tom and kick drum)

There are more esoteric (used/vintage only) things, but you won't be able to try before buy, like the Electrovoice RE10. This is my preferred vocal mic for a friend of mine (don't like 58s on him, but havent tried him on a V7; it was a top choice for US live vox before the 58 came out, often used on late nite talk shows in the 70s, e.g. by Mick and the Stones on Sullivan IIRC).

If you were local I could have you stop by for a shootout as I have (access to ) all of the above (as well as the below).

If the mic is more for jam /studio use only (or if the vocalist also plays an instrument so doesn't move around a lot on stage - needing a 'hand held" that comes off the stand easy) check out the following:

Sennheisser MD421 (this was the default live vocal mic in Europe in the 60s - think The Monks or Beatles in Hamburg; great sound and a handy multi-setting bass rolloff filter; also great in the studio for drums, and guitar/bass cabs)
EV RE20 (very little proximity effect, so good on plosives and not sounding muddy; also legendary on kick and bass cabs)
Shure SM7b (mid forward with multiple tone shaping options - a fave for metal and rappers, but more versatile than that)

These 3 are all available new or used.

Many of the above have a HPF option (some as noted have multiple settings for bass rolloff) - in a live setting use those. It will reduce plosiveness and bleed from other onstage instruments and increase gain before feedback.

You could also try EQ with the 58 you already have. If the mixer has a HPF on the channel, use it. If not you may have to cut the bass (if HPF you can actually boost the bass a tiny bit if things are a bit thin). For eliminating sibilance look at a cut in the 1k-2k range. For more presence/cutting power and intelligibility boost in that same range.

 

Don’t take this the wrong way, but does this “very good singer” have experience singing with a full band?

I’ve seen and heard some pretty nice voices suddenly disappear when a singer is suddenly on a mic with a band.

I say that because, tastes aside, I have yet to hear a 58 yield a poor sound.

It might not be the sound you prefer, but are you sure the mic is the problem in this case?

 

His voice is fine and resonant sans mic. The result through the 58 (I'm behind him, so this is second-hand) is reported by some to be honky.

 

+1 on the Beta version of the 58. Much less likely to get "lost in the mix" with that mic IME. You could rent that model from L&M and see what you think...

 

Question 7) Are you sure the current SM 58 is legit? There are a lot of suboptimal sounding counterfeit mics out there.

 

A local music store may let him try out a few on site. Way back in the day I went out to Yorkville Sound (I think, it was long ago) and they let me try out a dozen different rental mics for an hour in the rental area, I'm not sure they'd be that generous, or even have the facility now though.

 

I upgraded to a Beta after great success with one. Fuller sound in a band setting, mids and bass more defined.

 

We do have phantom power available from the mixer. I will spend more for a better result but 1200 would be a good starting ceiling unless a really noticeable improvement is possible. It is mixed from stage. It is a genuine Shure SM58. I will definitely try going into the store to try some rental mics. The less than optimal results may have also have been a result of trying to sing over the level of the band as it seemed quite loud and I felt my voice was not cutting through (straining as it were). I don't currently play harmonica. Would like the option of handheld if possible but not a necessity.

 

We do have phantom power available from the mixer. I will spend more for a better result but 1200 would be a good starting ceiling unless a really noticeable improvement is possible.

Dave is the singer. Welcome to the discussion, Dave!

 

I don't recommend anything that requires phantom power for live use at random clubs (not bringing your own PA). Some condensors have a battery option.

 

The Shure Super 55 is on sale at the moment
Sale Price: $271.00 CDN
Original Price: $339.00 CDN
I have read some very positive reviews on this one.

 

That's a 57/58 diaphram (they are the same mic - the only difference is the ball grille for minimising sibilance and plosives on the 58; a pop filter) inside a vintage style chassis. Don't pay that much for a 58.

 

If the goal is to have him sound as good as possible in a band context in numerous venues, each with different sound systems and different sound men, my advice would be to stick with the SM58 and figure out some EQ tweaks for the sound man to use as a starting point. Bringing your own mic to a gig can often cause as many problems as it solves If it’s not something the sound man uses regularly. That’s especially true in an open-stage or multi-band context where there isn’t the opportunity to rearrange stage monitors or do a full sound check before playing.

 

I believe that it imperative for vocalists to have their own mic. I always had a spare mic set up for the inevitable brother of the groom that wanted to "sing" with the band. I call it the Herpes mic.

Call me a germaphobe, but I don't share my vocal mic.

 

The Shure Super 55 is on sale at the moment
Sale Price: $271.00 CDN
Original Price: $339.00 CDN
I have read some very positive reviews on this one.

That's a 57/58 diaphram (they are the same mic - the only difference is the ball grille for minimising sibilance and plosives on the 58; a pop filter) inside a vintage style chassis. Don't pay that much for a 58.

I believe the Super 55 is a Beta 58 capsule, which is a significant upgrade to the SM58 - and it looks super cool! I would also try a 55SH - same housing, lesser capsule, but has a better built-in windscreen. I use a 55SH for 90% of my gigs and much prefer it to the Super 55.

When it comes to cardioid versus super-cardioid, if the stage volume is low-ish, I much prefer cardioid over super-cardioid. I don't love a lot of proximity effect and I like to move around relative to the mic and I find that cardioid is a bit more forgiving.

Others I would consider (some already mentioned):
Entry level (camparable to SM58):
Sennheiser e835(cardioid), e845 (super cardioid)
A step up:
Shure Beta 58
Sennheiser e935, e945
Next level:
Telefunken M80
Ear Trumpet Edwina (super cool look too!)
Neumann KMS 105

 

A few other things in the signal chain may be the issue.

EQ, as others have noted.
Maybe the board has a crappy pre-amp
Are you using any compression on board? Consider adding it maybe.
Perhaps it's the Bose speakers. Not that they're bad, just bad for him.

 

Thank you all for your input. Dave got himself a Sennheiser e935 after reading this thread and many reviews. My guess is that, even if there are issues further down the line, an established good mic for the band's front man can't be a bad thing. We can get it fine-tuned in rehearsal and when we're live we'll at least know there's a pleasing signal at the beginning of the chain.

 

Congrats on the new mic @Dave Cooper! Surely an upgrade to the SM58.

 

I once had a reputable sound guy suggest a vocal mic fwiw.

 

It's not really the mic itself...SM58 will work for just about anybody.
It's:
1. The EQ, to maximize the stage vocal volume and eliminate any feedback.
You need a 1/3 octave EQ to do it right.
2. Getting the band stage / amp volume under control, so that it's not wiping out the PA.
This requires cooperation from musicians, which you may / may not be getting.

Other than that, the microphone is not really the most critical point.
No microphone fixes goofy EQ...and no microphone fixes musicians, who try to blast each other off the stage...which is the real issue.

 

I have used the same Sennheiser e935 for several years and like it over the SM58 for me.

 

For my tastes, a Beta 58 is not an upgrade from a 58. It’s a slightly different sounding mic (until I eq it and get pretty much the same results).

Different is not necessarily better, just a matter of personal taste.

 

For my tastes, a Beta 58 is not an upgrade from a 58. It’s a slightly different sounding mic (until I eq it and get pretty much the same results).

I agree with this. I'd hazard to say, 95% of people who do sound on a regular basis probably also agree with this.