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Difference between a good & VERY GOOD guitar??

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10K views 76 replies 36 participants last post by  94Stanger  
#1 ·
Hi to all,

I may be spoiled because I got lucky as a kid and bought a Gibson es335 from an old guitar player & played my electric guitar on that until it got stolen many moons ago (I'm still broken up about it).

Anyways recently I've been getting back into guitar in a big way & having lots of fun. I play a lot more accoustic guitar, but lately I've been trying out a bunch of electric guitars & even some peddals & stuff as I want to get better on electric.

One of my customers got excited and sold me a few guitars (he has a guitar "problem") So I have been playing a Epiphone Firebird & a Fender KOA Tele MIM.

My Question is this: The guitars I am playing are mid-priced guitars, What makes more expensive guitars better?

I suppose I have to keep playing until I have a better feel on electrics, but still I'm curious of your opinions & experiences.
 
#2 ·
at a certain price point, you're paying for the name more then the quality of materials used. Some $500 guitars will play and look and sound like $3000 guitars. Some $3000 guitars will play like $500 guitars - that's the nature of the beast.

Usually people pay more for:
better woods selected
better stock hardware
the name on the headstock

it's also personal preference. If you can find an $800 guitar that feels great to you, sounds great to you and fits your needs then have at it - why spend that $2K or so except for the brand recognition.

What makes a guitar great to you is entirely personal preference - there's $3500 guitars that simply aren't for me, and would be "it" for somebody else.

I hope that answers your question! Be aware that there are the beyond-great and below-average for any maker. QC isn't supposed to let the sub-average ones slip out to stores, but it happens with pretty much every maker.
 
#3 ·
at a certain price point, you're paying for the name more then the quality of materials used. Some $500 guitars will play and look and sound like $3000 guitars. Some $3000 guitars will play like $500 guitars - that's the nature of the beast......
I guess the trick is to find a guitar you love at a reasonable price.....I know it's personal preference, but any companies to look for or avoid as I go on this journey? Or anything besides feel & sound that I should be looking for in a great & reliable guitar?
 
#5 ·
Again, what constitutes "good" companies and "companies to avoid" is entirely subjective. There is no magic bullet of an answer here. About the only thing I can say constructively is also so obvious it risks sounding insulting: avoid counterfeit guitars (often described on places like Craigslist and Kijiji as "replicas"). They're usually a notch or ten below the real thing and have pretty much zero investment value. Everything else is fair game.

I have guitars made in Canada, in America, in Korea, in Japan, in China, and in Indonesia. They are all great players. At the same time I have played and owned guitars from all of those countries and they have been dogs. It's also worth adding that a guitar which doesn't feel great initially may simply be in need of a setup that's more to your tastes.

There are so many makes and models out there these days you really have a wealth of options and they're across all the price points. It's a good time to be exploring guitar. Even cheaply made guitars are much better than they used to be, 30-40 years ago.
 
#6 ·
I was talking to my brother yesterday about guitars from the 60s.

We both remember a friend that had a 63 Strat that was an absolute POS.

It was awful on so many counts, but would be worth a bundle now.

I wouldn't buy it for 10 bucks. Actually I'd flip it really fast.

I've played more than one MIM strat that is as good as any I've played.
 
#7 ·
at a certain price point, you're paying for the name more then the quality of materials used. Some $500 guitars will play and look and sound like $3000 guitars. Some $3000 guitars will play like $500 guitars - that's the nature of the beast.
With all due respect Budda, I think you are grossly overstating the case. It is almost impossible to find a 500 dollar chinese or mexican guitar that plays and sounds as good as a guitar in the 1500 dollar price range.

Very good guitars have better quality hardware, more attention to finishing details, a better setup, better quality frets and generally play and sound better than cheaper guitars.

I think there is a point at which you are paying for name (like signature guitars for example), but your mileage may vary...

Matt
 
#8 ·
Matt, i guess to a degree - $500 is pretty low, and that would be an overstatement.

I apologize!

That said, there are $800-$1200 guitars that play just as nice and strike many as just as good as $1600-$2000 guitars.

My $1500 LP studio felt just as solid as my hamer which would have been around $3800+ when it was new (i bought the LP new) - which makes me wonder if I just had an A-1 les paul studio.

Once you get to around $1000 on the new market, you're getting quality made instruments with quality parts from a couple different names. Once you hit $2K+ you're getting instruments that just use overall more quality woods, and the attention to detail.

I'm also a huge believer in buying used :)
 
#10 · (Edited)
With all due respect Budda, I think you are grossly overstating the case. It is almost impossible to find a 500 dollar chinese or mexican guitar that plays and sounds as good as a guitar in the 1500 dollar price range.

Very good guitars have better quality hardware, more attention to finishing details, a better setup, better quality frets and generally play and sound better than cheaper guitars.

I think there is a point at which you are paying for name (like signature guitars for example), but your mileage may vary...

Matt
I agree.
 
#13 ·
Name brand guitars that sell for much less than their flagship models have two thingns going for them that keep the price low: cheaper labour costs, and autmated production techniques.

Now, the folks who produced the very best golden-age instruments or their components (e.g., the legendary Abigail Ybarra at Fender) were not Ph.D.s in acoustic physics. They were regular folks doing regular jobs in factories who learned on the job and became accustomed to the things to watch out for and how to avoid problems. Which means that folks in Korea and other places can just as easily learn how to make things too. Indeed, we forget what a rich tradition of fine craftsmanship exists in those Asian nations that also make guitars, whether we're talking wood, jade, ceramics, or other materials. There are no barriers to people working in a Fender, Samick, Ibanez or other plant learning how to do it right.

The demand for instruments that makes it reasonable to relocate business to Asian countries also makes it imperative to use automated methods to produce them. Obviously, there are humans in the mix, but the working assumption is that if you can produce necks using CNC methods, do so. Are these methods capable of producing good instruments? Sure. Heck, there are many reasons to assume that a CNC method can reproduce a neck of a certain profile with greater accuracy and reliability than a craftsman could.

Where the two approaches differ is in keeping an eye open for the details. So the glue joint on a budget instrument might be decent enough, but the same glue joint on the high end might entail some addition prepping of the surface to assure better adhesion and a better joint. One can automate fret installation, but doing it by eye and feel might result in frets being installed all the way along the fingerboard,and having both ends of every fret smooth to the touch, dressed, crowned, and polished flawlessly.

To whit, I recently bought a "budget" Parker. Got a great price on it at Steve's, some 30% less than what the big American on-line places were selling it for. It's a decent guitar that plays well....BUT...the pickups are not particularly good, and two of the frets need levelling (there is a buzzing at the 2nd and 3rd fret for the E and A strings). I'm sure whoever made it did their job correctly, but they were producing it to a mechanical standard, and not to a playing standard. High-priced instruments are made to a playing standard. Someone feels the neck and determines that this is too rough to the touch, or the action can't be comfortably low without entailing buzz. And so on.

A pair of Duncans or a set of Sperzels are obviously going to be the same on a budget as on a high-priced guitar, but someone is going to take the time with a higher-priced model to set everything up right and make sure it works as intended and expected. As such, where one might be foolish to buy a budget instrument sight unseen, one can generally feel somewhat assured in buying a higher-priced model on-line that what arrives in the mail will meet expectations.

Of course, introducing the human element also means that their judgment about playability should be congruent with your judgment, and that may not always be the case.

Consequently, one may make the following generalization about budget instruments, compared to higher-priced ones: The odds are greater that each unit if a higher-priced model will be equally playable, even if idiosyncratic in some way. In contrast, with budget models, sometimes you can get lucky but sometimes not. So, what you pay for is really the sort of attention to detail that results in consistency of product. If the gap in price between a budget and higher-end model is wide enough, and the issues not too terrible, the gap in quality can often be addressed by dropping a bit of money on post-production detailing. For instance, neck and fretboard setup. Or even better pickups and their installation.
 
#14 ·
I agree. None of that Chinese or Mexican junk stands up against quality American made instruments. You get what you pay for, and that's a fact.
A new guitar in the $400 - $500 is not good, except for maybe a beginner.
Could not disagree more. I've played some MIM strats that were hands down better than MIA strats. MIAs tend to have higher QC, but there are still some crappy ones out there. Hence the reason why I'll never buy a guitar online. If you look around enough, you can find plenty of solid and giggable guitars in the 400-500 range.

Also, this might be a slightly inappropriate joke, but a wise man on a certain other guitar forum once said

MIMs are made by Mexicans in Mexico
MIAs are made by Mexicans in America
Pablo from Juarez is as good of a craftsman as Pablo from California
hwopv
 
#15 ·
It is true that the more expensive guitars have the better woods, components and finishes and so they should your paying for it. One would expect the more expensive guitars would have more attention to detail but there can always be a lemon in the bunch. Things slip past quality control. Cheap guitars usually have cheap hardware, cheaper finishes and the possibility of more laminates in the wood. You can find guitars sub $500 -$600 that play well, and with a soldering iron, screw drivers and hex keys and some more cash as you get it you can turn it into a really good guitar. I have to admit there is some pride in owning a really expensive guitar there are 3 things I would like to point out here.
1. It is usually only other guitarist care that you have a custom shop Les Paul the average person really does not knows the difference.
2. If you are playing well and sounding good most people in the audience don’t care what you are playing.
3. The more expensive the guitar the greater the heart break when you get a ding in the finish.
 
#17 ·
sounds like rubbish to me.
just because it's made in china or mexico doesn't make it crap
I guess it depends what someone considers a "good" guitar. I cannot buy a new guitar in that price that I consider good. Period. All of my guitars that I've bought new have been triple that. Just my opinion, but I will never buy chinese or mexican made guitars. If some people think they're great, that;s fine. Some people also thought that Pintos were great cars. So be it.
 
#19 ·
I guess it depends what someone considers a "good" guitar. I cannot buy a new guitar in that price that I consider good. Period. All of my guitars that I've bought new have been triple that. Just my opinion, but I will never buy chinese or mexican made guitars. If some people think they're great, that;s fine. Some people also thought that Pintos were great cars. So be it.
Then you need to play more of the guitars.

I have read, by someone who used to work at Gibson, that buying a post 80's gibson with a solid finish means you're taking your chances on it.

What do you consider is good? Go into the store with a blindfold on, have your guitarist friend pass you some guitars. Tell him which numbers you think were best, and then find out what guitars they were.
 
#20 ·
Then you need to play more of the guitars.

I have read, by someone who used to work at Gibson, that buying a post 80's gibson with a solid finish means you're taking your chances on it.

What do you consider is good? Go into the store with a blindfold on, have your guitarist friend pass you some guitars. Tell him which numbers you think were best, and then find out what guitars they were.
I have to agree. I'm an old guy, so most of my guitars are American made, although not very high end.
But I have used all kinds of guitars on gigs, my friend's Mexi Strat, for example, worked wonderfully. Just as well as the American one I have now.
Things have changed, and there's lot's of nice stuff out there for a reasonable buck, IMHO:rockon2:
 
#21 ·
You know, we make a big deal out of pickups and bridges and paper-in-oil caps and fret composition and nuts. But I gotta tell ya, fundamentally, most guitars are a hunk of wood. I learned this very important lesson visiting the old Gibson facility on Parsons Street in Kalamazoo many years ago, before they closed for good and became Heritage instruments. As I was led on a walking tour, I saw instruments of every size and description: the USA map guitar, carved-top round-holes, double-necks, Byrdlands in for repairs, harp guitars, 335s, etc. What they all shared in common (and you couldn't help notice it when confronted with the old wooden plank floors, the wood-working machinery and tools, and just the smell of wood everywhere) was that they were wooden devices, assisted by metal and electronics.

And the fact of the matter is that not all wood is equal, even when from the same tree. Even when one pays attention to wood and gives it the respect due, all the other stuff that supports the wood's properties (glue joints, finishing, etc.) has to be in place too. It's easy to imagine that higher priced lines have a bunch of select and preferentially-treated planks that are allocated to that product line. Yes, they may look the same as the budget ones to the untrained eye, but they may have properties that are distinct, and be treated differentially. Fact of the matter is that there is no way I can have a dependable source of the "right" mahogany for the thousands and thousands of Epiphone Les Pauls that get made every year, but I can have a dependable source for a much more limited run of top grade Les Pauls that cost enough to limit buyers.

Yes, workmanship, and attention to detail plays a role, but wood is the elephant in the room.
 
G
#22 ·
I agree. None of that Chinese or Mexican junk stands up against quality American made instruments. You get what you pay for, and that's a fact.
A new guitar in the $400 - $500 is not good, except for maybe a beginner.
Bullshit. I have an Agile 3100 and a couple of Reverends that I play more often than my $2700 LP and my $2000 HP Special. There are outstanding instruments being produced in Asia for a fraction of the price you would pay for American hyped hardware. There are folks out there who have invested loads of money in American guitars and can't stand the thought that they overpayed and could soon find themselves with devalued instruments. If you don't believe me go out and try them and judge for yourself. I own American guitars, plenty of them, and a good piece of wood in North America is a whole lot like a good piece of wood from Asia. The hardware on some of those cheapies might not be ideal but then again I know plenty of LP owners who have swapped out their pickups.
 
#23 ·
I have or had guitars/basses/mandolins/banjos/ukes from around the world. Place of origin was less a consideration for me when all I shopped for was tone and playability.

These days I've taken an interest in domestic (meaning Canadian) instruments, mostly guitars. Other instruments, I don't much care where they come from. So I have 3 Beneteau acoustics (6, 12, baritone), 3 House acoustics (6, 6 cutaway, bouzouki), 3 Godins (LG, 5 string bass, LaPatrie Collection), Cox mandolin, homemade bass, and have owned many other Godin products. This isn't a bias against any nation, import policy, perceived quality, or whatever, but it is a deliberate attempt to shop locally or nationally because I have a romanticized notion of being Canadian and Canadiana in general.

I haven't had any trouble finding quality at home, either. So if there is tone, playability, looks, I increasingly shop Canada. The difference for me between the very good and the merely mediocre, is a combination of electronic and mechanical parts, finish, assembly, wood, and features, but chiefly how and why all these things combine to create great tone and playability.

One of these days I'll post a Canadian family picture.

Peace, Mooh.
 
#24 ·
I know my made in China Ibanez AF95 is not as good as some other archtops, and it's better than others--including other Ibanez Artcore models. The extra price on some models is not just the ornamentation. The AF75's apparently have the same electronics as the AF95, but they don't feel as good. And I thought that before I knew the price difference. The higher models sound better and feel better. The AF95 is now out of that price range mentioned, and the AF75 almost is. But when I bought it it was in the high end of it. So which would you judge it on?

Personally I'd have no problem gigging with the AF95.

Generalizations on price range are dangerous.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Then you need to play more of the guitars.

I have read, by someone who used to work at Gibson, that buying a post 80's gibson with a solid finish means you're taking your chances on it.

What do you consider is good? Go into the store with a blindfold on, have your guitarist friend pass you some guitars. Tell him which numbers you think were best, and then find out what guitars they were.
I've played several guitars and own 9 guitars myself.....so not sure what you mean by that.
.
 
#26 ·
I have or had guitars/basses/mandolins/banjos/ukes from around the world. Place of origin was less a consideration for me when all I shopped for was tone and playability.

These days I've taken an interest in domestic (meaning Canadian) instruments, mostly guitars. Other instruments, I don't much care where they come from. So I have 3 Beneteau acoustics (6, 12, baritone), 3 House acoustics (6, 6 cutaway, bouzouki), 3 Godins (LG, 5 string bass, LaPatrie Collection), Cox mandolin, homemade bass, and have owned many other Godin products. This isn't a bias against any nation, import policy, perceived quality, or whatever, but it is a deliberate attempt to shop locally or nationally because I have a romanticized notion of being Canadian and Canadiana in general.

I haven't had any trouble finding quality at home, either. So if there is tone, playability, looks, I increasingly shop Canada. The difference for me between the very good and the merely mediocre, is a combination of electronic and mechanical parts, finish, assembly, wood, and features, but chiefly how and why all these things combine to create great tone and playability.

One of these days I'll post a Canadian family picture.

Peace, Mooh.
Agreed, there are some excellent Canadian made guitars out there.....