It will work. The question is what degree of bleed works best for your needs.

 

Ok good to know. Does the 50s wiring change how a treble bleed works at all compared to other wiring? If not, I think I'll start with just a standard value for humbuckers like 1000pf with a 150k resistor

 

I encourage you to conduct any tone wiring test with the variables on switch(s), (treble bleed in this case). Then... test in "actual" use, with whatever system, at volume etc.

Why? IMO, this is one area where internet "common wisdom" fails to provide the "best for your needs" answer. People tend to repeat/empower the "common internet wisdom", but very few actually take 10 minutes to wire up a switch, (or two!), to test/evaluate the variables, and actually hear the "wisdom in action"....
(Spoiler... it all depends..., your ears will know what you want, (...and furthermore, what's up with those lazy gitbot know-it-alls?!)

"Common values" are just that. Like 250K pots for strats/teles etc. Oh right, didn't Fender use 1M pots on teles! "Common wisdom.... Tele/1M pots= Ice pick, ice pick!! Run away..." (Spoiler... Try it! "You can't handle the truth". )

It is a good question!
Cut to the chase, just wire it up on a switch and report back....

 

I concur with TW. And just to add, it's not only your ears, it's also your amp, guitar, and overall signal path. The whole purpose of compensating the volume pot was to counteract the loading effect that would occur as the volume was turned down.

But just who came up with that, when did they do it, and to what ends? We know about compensating volume pots via Fender, with single coil pickups, during an era in which a bright clean tone was desirable from both the guitar and amp. Gibson sure wasn't using it with their P90s or humbuckers. And once we started to value a "thicker" tone, 15 years later, with amps that were adding harmonic coloration, the virtues of maintaining a bright clear sound took a back seat. Certainly the loading of dual-coil pickups as the volume is reduced still occurs, but some players would use that to their advantage. Jeff Beck would often turn the amp up, but turn the guitar volume down, to both load the pickups down but also change the input level the amp was seeing.

I like to include "overcompensation" of the volume control on some of my guitars, by using a much larger/higher cap value than recommended, like 1500pf (no resistor). From 10 down to around 6 or 7, I get a sort of bass cut. The volume pot attenuates everything, but since the mids pass through unobstructed, it sounds like a bass cut. Below 6, it functions like a regular volume pot. Not for everybody, though, and not compatible with all playing styles. But it can be useful to transform a bridge humbucker into something approximating a "thinner" single coil, without sacrificing hum-rejection.

But to circle back to TW's post and rationale, there are suggested "classic" compensations, but no hard and fast rule. Whatever one uses, bear in mind that any compensation is for achieving the desired tone when turning the volume down. Just like the bright switch on an amp, compensating the volume pot has absolutely NO effect when the volume pot is maxed. So, depending on how one uses their guitar's volume, compensation may or may not have any utility. If one is the sort of player who only turns the guitar down to talk to a bandmate, lean the guitar against the amp, or because you think you hear the phone ringing, then compensating the volume may offer no particular added value. If you're the sort of player who constantly tinkers with volume settings, pinky swells, etc., then it may be time to explore some of the suggested compensations. If you're lucky, and the control cavity and pot lugs provide easy access, one can simply tack on different cap values (or cap+resistor) with a bit of solder, and see if it makes a desirable and useful difference.

 

Although it's not incredibly noticeable, I do notice things still muddy up if I roll down a few points on the dial.

You should not require a treble bleed, if the capacitor and pot values are properly matched to the dynamics of the PU.
Adding additional passive components to the network may not impress you.
One person's concept of 50s wiring, may not be another person's concept.
Below is an example of one concept...is this what you are referring to as "50s wiring"?

 

Yup, that's the one on my Gibson guitars. Everyone always seems to say this wiring won't cut treble as you roll down but I notice it on all my Gibsons. As soon as I roll down to 7 or 8 the sparkle clear tone kinda disappears. It's not huge by any means but noticeable enough not to like it.

For example, my HSS USA Strat has treble bleeds on both volume pots (stacked) from factory and roling down it sounds great the whole way

 

If you're losing a ton of tone as soon as you get to 7 or 8 you have one of two problems. It could be the pot sweep, logarithmic or audio taper vs linear will make a difference. Some people prefer the sweep of a log/audio pot, and some prefer the sweep of a linear pot. Or your cap is too big. The bigger the cap the more highs are rolled off. In fact if the cap is too big you can roll off mids and even bass
Take a look at your pots.. Do they have an A or a B ? Take a look at the guitar with your favorite sweep. Again A or B? If one guitar is A and the other is B they will sound completely different and react completely differrent with the tone knob rolled down. If one is modern wiring and the other 50's will make a big difference too
This graph is a generic one, different brands might have a slighltly different sweep. (inverse log is lefty) If youre a lefty and use a right log pot it will sound like garbage.

Back in the 50's Leo and Gibson liked dark guitars. They wanted them to sound like brass trombones and double bass etc. Check out the demo for the Maestro Pedal by gibson. Thats why they used big caps like 0.1 (some jazz players use a .2!) and .05, they wanted those dark sounds. But as time went by, nobody really changed those values. .047/.022 are the most common, but on most guitars those values sound like mud with the tone at zero. If you have a pot and you put a .044 cap on it and you love the tone when it is at 8, then change the cap to a .022, you could get the exact same tone at 4 assuming it was a perfect 500k linear pot and both caps were dead nuts accurate.

Check out the lindy fralin cap video below to see why .022 and .047 are not the holy grail. I have a strat with a .003 at the bridge and a .010 for neck and middle. The tone pot is useable through the entire sweep. In my double p90 tele I used a .008 for the bridge and a .015 for the neck. Again, to me all sounds are usable through the range of the pot sweep.

My suggestion is if you like how the HSS guitar sounds, figure out what pots are in there, and change the other guitar to the same style, ie log or linear. You may find both are linear, you may find one is linear and one is audio. Some people prefer a linear volume but a log tone, some prefer both to be audio taper. It's players choice and you have to experiment to find what you like. The harnesses I make for you guys are all audio taper pots. I only use linear for blend pots because there is no such thing as an audio taper blend pot.
A pot marked with an A is a logarithmic or audio pot. The B is linear pot.

With 50's wiring when you turn down the tone, you should lose a bit of volume as well, which is what may be bothering you. (loss of volume seems like loss of tone) But if you turn down the volume you should not lose highs.
With Modern style wiring turning down the tone does not lower the volume, but turning down the volume will cause you to lose highs. So You need to pick which scenario is best for you.

I've also seen that the cable you use has a big effect. The cable has a capacitence rating and can directly afftect the size of the compnents in your treble bleed. Changing amps can change that too. so you could pick the perfect trebel bleed and it sounds great in your Fender amp, but sounds horrible in your two rock for example.

Here's a quick video on tone cap sizes and what they do to each pickup. for example putting a .050 on the bridge is useless as breasts on a bull. But at the neck its a different story....

 

You're not supposed to have "highs" when you get to 7 or 8 on the dial, thats the point. By the time you get to 7 or higher you're starting to lose mids too especially if the cap value is large. Go to a smaller cap if the tone is too dark. Thats what I do, I use 0.008uf on a p90 bridge and a .015 at the neck. Nowhere near what Gibson puts in a special. But it isn't going to change anything except the sweep of the pot. When I wire my guitars I roll off the tone completely and pick a cap that sounds good , then when you roll it back it gets nice and bright. In a perfect world with a perfect pot and you have a .047 cap and you get to 5 and it sounds like shite, it will sound exactly the same at 10 with a .022 cap. If you insist that a tone pot must be useable through the entire sweep then pick the cap that works for your setup, not the generic values spewed out by Gibson and Fender. back in the 50's they were trying to make guitars sound like wind instruments so big caps were the norm. If you think i'm lying look at the Gibson Maestro Pedal that came out in the 50's. If you listen to the demo that came with the pedal they were really trying to make guitars sound dark.

I'm a bit confused, you're saying that the tone cap plays into the volume clarity even if the tone knob is on 10?

 

i have totally re edited my post while you guys answered. Please reread, I have added some things and changed about the tone pot. I always mess up which number is which when I dont have a guitar in my hand. LOL

 

If you are concerned about the effects of pick-up loading then, buffer the pickups before any passive circuitry.

 

If you don't want to use on-board power, you could supply power externally, within the guitar cable, as shown below. The caps will block the DC, allowing the sharing of signal and power on the same line (the shield which is not shown is the return):

Modulating the power line may prove interesting.
Will the signal pass or will it shunt to ground via V+?

 

Another alternative is to use a tapped-pot, like Fender did with some of his amps (6G16)...it can also be applied to guitar and may suit your taste at lower levels for bass response.

 

I'm a couple weeks late to the thread but have a relative example.
I'm and old school style player and much prefer the interaction with all audio taper pots and 50's wiring.
However my Collectors Choice #7 Shanks typically had a darker roll off in the neck position than any of my other LP's. This despite 50's wiring, pickup type, cap value and audio taper pot. Covid shut down gave me a couple of years of boredom with almost no gigs to experiment on my guitars.

A higher value pot allows more highs but the roll off comes faster as all pots travel the same distance from 10 - 0. To help compensate for this I used a 0.015 cap and Mojo 30% (I think ?) taper pot. It's closer toward a log pot taper than a typical cts audio pot and the 'bump' around 8 is not so pronounced. I also scraped off some of the carbon track to bring it over 600k. Now it performs better with a less pronounced highs roll off as the volume is reduced, but still not as clear as some of my other LP's. I've swapped everything possible, hardware & electronics, but it's still what it is. There are resonant frequencies that just are part of that guitar naturally.

In the opposite direction I have a P90 LP and LPC that are ice pick bright with 50's wiring in the bridge. Both now use modern wiring in that position alone, going against my typical preference.

Daz

 

Yes, of course you can add a Treble Bleed with 50's wiring. Just experiment and find what works for you! You can simply alligator clip them in for testing..

I always use 50's wiring, but still prefer more highs when rolling down the volume. Recently went with a 1000pF + 180k in parallel, that's my fav (for covered humbuckers). It makes the taper more gradual as well, which I like.

 

Awesome info, thanks! Good to hear of different experiences. I'm gonna try this for sure on my LP. I was gonna go 150k/1000pf which is pretty close to your recommendation!.

Also of interest, my Japanese Revstar w/humbuckers has a perfect treble bleed so I opened it up and found it to have 330k/560pf set up. Quite different specs but sounds abosolutely bang on when you roll down!

Now my PRS Custom 24 leaves much to be desired with it's treble bleed. Haven't looked what they used yet but it gets muddy instantly then starts to clear up around 5 or 6 on the dial. Weird..Gonna be swapping that out one of these days as well.