[murraythek]

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as I really don’t see why there is such a gap on the used marker value wise between the Elitist Casino and Gretsch 6119 Tennessee Rose.


Both guitars retail for $3k CDN and the last 10 Reverb transactions have both guitars selling for an average of $1700 USD. Is it supply and demand? There are far more 6119's listed on Reverb. Is it the stigma with the brand "Epiphone"? I don’t get it.

 

[TDeneka]

The Gretsch has more features, more tonal capabilities, and arguably the nicer looking guitar. As a result, it draws more of the hollowbody crowd towards it.
Not only that, the epiphone was overpriced from the start IMO.

 

[Distortion]

Price of Epi Elite 335 was $1500 Canadian in about 2002. Casino should have been about the same. Both guitars made in Japan. Also a MIA Casino was offered for big bucks back then.

 

[murraythek]

It must be a Canadian market thing because I have both the Elitist and 6119 on my Reverb feed and the 6119's are listed/relisted almost daily while the Elitists rarely pop up.

 

[DaddyDog]

Not sure what you mean by 'gap market wise'. I can only comment on the 6119. I'm a huge Gretsch fan, and own several, including a 2008 6119 aka the Tennessee Rose. It boils down to popularity. The 6120 and the Falcons are played by lots of big names like Brian Setzer, Duane Eddy, Stephen Stills, Billy Duffy. The early 60's TRose was just some dude named George in that Beatles band ;-) But the 6119 and 6120 have identical specs, and just some cosmetic differences. Mind you, there are different TRose models.

There are people on the Gretsch chat forums that have landed a 6119 for as little as $900 US! So if you don't care about the apparent cachet of a 6120, you can get nearly the same thing for a lot less.

 

[Steadfastly]

I don't know about the pricing but I think most people would prefer a Gretsch over an EPI.

 

[jdto]

I don't know about the pricing but I think most people would prefer a Gretsch over an EPI.

"Most people", eh? Are you projecting your own opinion onto the masses?

By all reports, Elitist Epiphones are top-end guitars and commanded higher prices vs. the standard Epiphone lines. Gretsch has three tiers of guitars, MIJ->MIK->MIC and they go in order of price and quality, as well as variations in finish and features. Then they have their custom shop. Epiphone makes their standard lines in China (and some acoustics in Indonesia), while the Elitists were made in Japan to a higher standard of materials and construction, apparently.

 

[Budda]

I dont think any epi elitist model ever broke $1500 new, fyi.

 

[jdto]

I dont think any epi elitist model ever broke $1500 new, fyi.

Back when they were a regular item, I imagine that might be the case, but right now the only Elitist even offered by Long & McQuade is priced at $3K. I doubt they have any in stock.

 

[Steadfastly]

"Most people", eh? Are you projecting your own opinion onto the masses?

By all reports, Elitist Epiphones are top-end guitars and commanded higher prices vs. the standard Epiphone lines. Gretsch has three tiers of guitars, MIJ->MIK->MIC and they go in order of price and quality, as well as variations in finish and features. Then they have their custom shop. Epiphone makes their standard lines in China (and some acoustics in Indonesia), while the Elitists were made in Japan to a higher standard of materials and construction, apparently.

From what I have seen here, I don't think I have ever seen a negative remark about a Gretsch, That cannot be said about Epiphone guitars in general.

 

[jdto]

From what I have seen here, I don't think I have ever seen a negative remark about a Gretsch, That cannot be said about Epiphone guitars in general.

What is your own personal observation from checking out multiple examples of both companies? Or do you just go by what you read on the internet "in general" about Epiphone and "around here" about Gretsch?

You generalized opinions you've read online, but can you share your first hand experience comparing them? I've spent quite a bit of time in the semi-hollow room at Long & McQuade on Bloor St. doing just that. I don't claim to be an expert, but holding the guitars in my hands and playing them side by side, even with my limited knowledge, I can see the similarities and differences.

I've found the lower-end Gretsch Streamliner guitars that I've seen in similar price brackets to Epiphones (let's say, the Casino, Dot and Sheraton between about $500-$750) at the same level of quality, construction and finishing. In fact, comparing those head to head, I preferred the Epiphones over the Gretsch offerings. Epiphone makes some lower-cost, lower-quality entry-level guitars, but once you get into the $500-$750 range, they hold up well in comparisons to Gretsch in similar price points. Gretsch definitely has a good thing going in the MIK Electromatic hollowbody lineup, but those are usually above $1K. When you're talking Electromatic, I'd pick the Gretsch over the Epiphone. Of course, at that price point you're paying about $500 extra, so you'd hope to get a bit more for your money. The Electromatic lineup are a homerun for Gretsch, I think, as they have a great balance of quality to value for money and they look and sound great. I've had some serious GAS for a G5420T or the G5422T.

Also, if you look at the Epiphone "packages" or "signatures" in around the $1000-$1200 range, where you often get Gibson pickups and a nice hard case included, they are very good guitars at that price (eg. the 1955 Les Paul Custom Package, which I was very close to buying). At the high end of Gretsch their guitars compare favourably with just about anything I've seen, but you're into multiple thousands of dollars.

 

[Gimper]

I've had some serious GAS for a G5420T or the G5422T.

I did too... until a couple months ago... then I finally got one. You are right, great guitar, I have lots of fun with it.

 

[Budda]

Back when they were a regular item, I imagine that might be the case, but right now the only Elitist even offered by Long & McQuade is priced at $3K. I doubt they have any in stock.

They havent been in production for at least 10 years - I would say that number is not remotely accurate, regardless if its in their system.

 

[jdto]

They havent been in production for at least 10 years - I would say that number is not remotely accurate, regardless if its in their system.

I know the Elitist line was discontinued, but apparently they did a run of Elitist Casinos recently. It seems like there are some new "1965 Elitist Casinos" kicking around on the US retail sites. Someone in the comments section on Epiphone's site says it's a 2014 model.

Epiphone Ltd. Ed. Elitist "1965" Casino Vintage Outfit

And Musician's Friend has it available:
Epiphone Elitist 1965 Casino

 

[murraythek]

OP here.

I started this thread as I was recently looking to trade my Elitist for a 6119. My trade value was set @ $1600 which I thought was reasonable for the quality, number in circulation and value vs new selling price. I received a few pm's telling me my trade value was too high and realistically it should be around $11-$1200?????? Those selling the 6119 are looking for $18-$2100. There cannot be a $900 difference between these 2 guitars. What really separates them? The bigsby? Ok thats $150-$200 tops. The filtertrons? I doubt there is that much difference value wise between the filtertron and Gibson P90.

Take a look at the US market and these guitars are valued on a much more even level.

 

[jdto]

OP here.

I started this thread as I was recently looking to trade my Elitist for a 6119. My trade value was set @ $1600 which I thought was reasonable for the quality, number in circulation and value vs new selling price. I received a few pm's telling me my trade value was too high and realistically it should be around $11-$1200?????? Those selling the 6119 are looking for $18-$2100. There cannot be a $900 difference between these 2 guitars. What really separates them? The bigsby? Ok thats $150-$200 tops. The filtertrons? I doubt there is that much difference value wise between the filtertron and Gibson P90.

Take a look at the US market and these guitars are valued on a much more even level.

The market value of a guitar is not always determined by the individual components of the guitar. What year is your Casino?

 

[Budda]

Its worth what people pay for it. Wait for the right person or change the price - thats all there is to it.

 

[luker0]

@jtdo you have a very strong point above. I travel a lot for work and tend to rent a guitar whenever possible (about 20 different guitars so far in two years) and spent 3 hours at Cosmo one night and here is what I found personally.
Epiphone: some are excellent, some feel like crap to me. Recently had a Epiphone dot 335 that was terrible to play and not comfortable at all, whereas the Joe Pass Emperor II was sublime and I really wanted to bring it home from Winnipeg.

Gibson: same thing here. Did not like the SG I rented, loved the feel of the ES-195 but the Bigsby bridge on it put the guitar out of tune daily for the 5 days I had it (also had a small Hughes and Kettner amp that was neat). I would love to own the 2011 ES-175 I had the pleasure of playing at the 12th Fret, probably one of my favourite guitars ever to hold and play.

Gretsch: Tried the cheap ones all the way up to the expensive ones, did not like the feel of them, but oh the sound that came out of a Chet Atkins was excellent. Bigsby on that felt awesome and stayed in tune. But they just aren't comfortable to me.

PRS: Again tried cheap all the way up to $4000. The under $1K ones felt "wrong" to me, and I asked the guy not to tell me which ones were cheap and which were expensive. The $4K one was awesome, but not $4K awesome. There was a CE Custom 24 that was really really nice, and likely a guitar I will pine for a long long time. The $1200 ones were nice but in that range there are a lot of guitars I like.

To the OP, anything used is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That market is even more artificial than the new market in my opinion. Try selling a race car some time, you can't even get back what you put into it for the most part, unless your name is Rahal

 

[High/Deaf]

Of course Epiphone has that albatross around it's neck ------- Gibson. Gretsch bears no such negative DNA.

 

[Skippy]

Personally , I think your trade value is fair. I have been in the market for a Casino or 330 for a few months and have yet to see an Elitest for under 1800. Now, whether they're selling is another story. MIJ Elitest series are well built guitars, I wish we has more available in Canada. I. Would love an Elitest Riviera but they are only available in Japan.