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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
See full story in the link below.

Canadian ticket scalper's multimillion-dollar StubHub scheme targets big acts like Adele, Drake, Metallica

Canadian scalper's multimillion-dollar StubHub scheme exposed in Paradise Papers

When Adele fans went online to buy tickets to the pop superstar's world tour last year, they had no idea what exactly they were up against.

An army of tech-savvy resellers that included a little-known Canadian superscalper named Julien Lavallée managed to vacuum up thousands of tickets in a matter of minutes in one of the quickest tour sellouts in history.
The many fans who were shut out would have to pay scalpers like Lavallée a steep premium if they still wanted to see their favourite singer.
An investigation by CBC/Radio-Canada and the Toronto Star, based in part on documents found in the Paradise Papers, rips the lid off Lavallée's multimillion-dollar operation based out of Quebec and reveals how ticket website StubHub not only enables but rewards industrial-scale scalpers who gouge fans around the world.
 

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dint Ontario just recently outlaw 'Bots" for purchasing tickets online ( this is how scalpers get all the prime tickets.
AND....isnt it now illegal to resell any ticket online for more then 50% of the sticker price.

I know this is the kind of stuff thats been talked about....I just dont know if its gone into effect yet.

G.
 

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I recently heard of a concept called "Dutch Auction" based on the way they sell flowers in Holland. The price starts out very high and drops as time goes on. This ensures the correct market value of the ticket.

Example: A concert is announced, tickets go on sale for a really high price, say $5000. Not likely anyone but the well heeled would even consider this price. Over time the price of the unsold tickets keeps dropping until they're all sold. There would be a "sweet spot" in the pricing where the majority of interested concert goers would pay the current price so as not to miss out. The perceived value at any given time would vary from show to show, act to act.

This would discourage scalpers because the value of their ticket is certain to drop the longer they have it. No more incentive to scoop them up the second they go on sale. The eventual selling price reflects the true market value of an act. It would be a range where the biggest fans will pay the most but it's more likely the average fan will pay the average price to see the act. Of course the downside is if an individual bought tickets that they couldn't use. They'd lose value if trying to resell.
I think it would be interesting to see this happen if only to test the concept and eliminate scalpers.

To the OP, another part of the reason that concert tickets are more expensive is that bands are no longer making the kind of money on recorded product that they once were. Physical media sales are tanking with the rise of streaming. The relatively small income from that forces them to make their money in shows and merch.
 
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dint Ontario just recently outlaw 'Bots" for purchasing tickets online ( this is how scalpers get all the prime tickets.
AND....isnt it now illegal to resell any ticket online for more then 50% of the sticker price.

I know this is the kind of stuff thats been talked about....I just dont know if its gone into effect yet.

G.
This has not gone into affect yet.

Good luck policing either.
 

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I recently heard of a concept called "Dutch Auction" based on the way they sell flowers in Holland. The price starts out very high and drops as time goes on. This ensures the correct market value of the ticket.

Example: A concert is announced, tickets go on sale for a really high price, say $5000. Not likely anyone but the well heeled would even consider this price. Over time the price of the unsold tickets keeps dropping until they're all sold. There would be a "sweet spot" in the pricing where the majority of interested concert goers would pay the current price so as not to miss out. The perceived value at any given time would vary from show to show, act to act.

This would discourage scalpers because the value of their ticket is certain to drop the longer they have it. No more incentive to scoop them up the second they go on sale. The eventual selling price reflects the true market value of an act. It would be a range where the biggest fans will pay the most but it's more likely the average fan will pay the average price to see the act. Of course the downside is if an individual bought tickets that they couldn't use. They'd lose value if trying to resell.
I think it would be interesting to see this happen if only to test the concept and eliminate scalpers.

To the OP, another part of the reason that concert tickets are more expensive is that bands are no longer making the kind of money on recorded product that they once were. Physical media sales are tanking with the rise of streaming. The relatively small income from that forces them to make their money in shows and merch.
A big component you are missing though is doesn't the band have some say in how much fans have to pay to see them? Why should a band have to price their tickets out of reach of a good chunk of their fans if they don't want to?
 

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A big component you are missing though is doesn't the band have some say in how much fans have to pay to see them? Why should a band have to price their tickets out of reach of a good chunk of their fans if they don't want to?
If it works as suggested the price will continue to drop to the point where all their fans will have a shot at going. The band isn't really "pricing out of reach" insomuch as they're allowing the market to determine the ticket's actual worth.
The price may start at $5000 (arbitrary figure for example) but as time ticks down in the months/weeks before the show the price keeps dropping (theoretically to $1 on show day) as long as they're available. The trick for the buyer is to know what your willing to pay and hope the availability is there when it drops to your price.
There'd likely be an algorithm that would determine the rate of price drop based on the rate of ticket sales.

The initial very high price wouldn't sell very much if at all and as it drops people will jump in as they can. Also, the bands themselves can set the "initial" price to whatever they want if they're concerned about gouging their fans. I'd be willing to bet the bulk of tickets for a popular band would sell at a similar price to the current going rates but it would take the scalpers out of the mix.
 

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Right now a regular fan with a regular income has a chance of getting a ticket at face value. With your system, rich people would get the good seats and non-rich people would get whatever is left.

Not far off from what actually happens now but there is still a chance of getting a good seat at a good price.
 

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I don't think the Dutch auction works because the only "winner" in that scenario is the fan and that's not good for business. Concert promoters are getting a "kickback" from the scalping business so it isn't in their best interests to clean this stuff up. Besides, how would the big draws be able to add additional shows because shows sold out so quickly if their shows don't sell out until prices hit that "sweet spot"? Great concept but I don't think it works in this context.

I wanted to buy tickets for my wife to see Garth Brooks during his latest stop and when I found out you had to present the credit card used to purchase the tickets to gain access to the show I was more than pissed off because I wanted to surprise my wife (and one of her sisters) with the tickets. I ended up telling her my plan and used her card to buy the tickets and I still got my "brownie points" and she and her sister got to see Garth...win, win!

So I got to thinking, yes, it was annoying that I couldn't buy tickets for my wife and surprise her but at the same time I was able to buy tickets for a "big" concert without having to deal with a scalper (well, outside of Ticketmaster...screw those guys!) and scalper prices. It's not a perfect system by any means but it's certainly better than what we're used to.
 

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Just going to toss this out there - if you purchase your tickets through Ticketmaster (or any of the smaller main "initial" sellers) then you pay what the artist/management/promotor are asking.

If you purchase your tickets through scalpers/resellers/Stub Hub, etc. then you pay excessive prices, which is where the title of this thread makes me think it needs some clarification.

Yes I get that these bots have the ability to scoop up great seats before anyone else - but I suspect the CBC show tonight will lean towards more of a "this guy appears to be in cahoots with Stub Hub - and they gave him access to the seats before they went on sale to the general public or any presales, etc..." which I want to find more disturbing - but really don't.

I have a friend who was full-blown inner circle management with a fairly large Canadian trio. (Uber innie enough to have their name in the credits of anything released officially by them over the past decade or so for context.) For their last 2 Toronto shows at the ACC, they had kept back well over 1,000 seats per night for "family and friends" - and you can assume that the majority of those seats would fall under "great" rather than "crappy" to most people. Is that fair? These seats were never available to the general public when the ticket sales began for the shows. I bought tickets one night and used their freebies the other - and the ones I bought were "better" to my way of thinking. I have also seen Pearl Jam & Foo Fighters and a few others with tickets given to me through their "friends and family" allotment - again, not fair since these seats were never available to the public?

I have never purchased from resellers - if I can't get tickets I'm good with when they go on sale (or when the unused family and friends tickets drop a couple days before the show) then I stay home. The only show I ever purchased just pure crap seats willingly for was one of the Toronto final Hip shows - just because there were a bunch of us making a weekend on a boat out of it. I looked at Stub Hub once for a show just to get an idea of what their prices were like. No thanks.

As for the verified tickets - Foo Fighters used it a month or so ago in the UK for an arena gig. The idea is if I buy 4 tickets, they will all have my name printed on them. If I am not with someone using a ticket with my name on it (all 4 of us have to go in together) - they don't get in. The issue the Foos ran into was the original ticket seller also had an officially allowed verified reseller program. All the tickets that were sold through the verified reseller program still had the original ticket purchasers name on them - if you couldn't provide ID for that name, you didn't get in. To help clarify it - go to the official Ticketmaster page for tonight's Leafs game. You will see "official Ticketmaster" seats - and plenty more "verified reseller" seats. The people for the Foos show that bought the official "verified reseller" tickets (through the same page as the official tickets - just like tonight's Leafs game) were not permitted in because their tickets had a different name on them. Eliminates scalping - but also eliminates me giving tickets to my neighbours if I am sick the night of the show, etc. Essentially you eat the cost of the tickets - or if you are a total dick, scalp them to unsuspecting folks who you know will not be permitted entry to the event after you take their money.
 

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You're right Guncho - thanks. I was getting my wires crossed after reading a couple articles on tonight's Fifth Estate or whatever the CBC program is. I will edit that out.
 
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The trick for the buyer is to know what your willing to pay and hope the availability is there when it drops to your price.
and where you want to sit.
I wanted to buy tickets for my wife to see Garth Brooks during his latest stop and when I found out you had to present the credit card used to purchase the tickets to gain access to the show I was more than pissed off because I wanted to surprise my wife
and you didn't want to give her your card for proof on the day of the concert because you figure that she would've maxed it out that night? :D
 

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Stub Hub is owned by Ebay.

StubHub - Wikipedia
wow...and check this out, from Steadfastly's link above

" the CBC/Star investigation also discovered a password-protected portal exclusively for StubHub's top sellers who prove they can move more than $50,000 worth of tickets a year.

The company offers them special software to upload and manage huge inventories of tickets.

In its Top Seller Handbook, Stubhub offers incentives for high-volume resellers, including reducing its 10 per cent cut on each ticket sold. The higher the reseller's numbers, the sweeter the deal, with special rates for those who hit sales of $250,000, $500,000 and up to $5 million US per year."
 
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Just picked up (from a friend of a friend) 2 tickets to GnR in toronto a week or so ago for 100 bucks.

I agree tickets are stupidly expensive even straight from ticketmaster but sometimes the reseller market works better.

Tickets werent great seat, Top level at ACC but I was closer than I was in Buffalo when I saw them in August. And I think the buffalo tix were over 100 us each.

The business of reselling needs to be curbed by the vender or the artist and since ticketmaster doesnt care either way that only leaves one force to stop them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
wow...and check this out, from Steadfastly's link above

" the CBC/Star investigation also discovered a password-protected portal exclusively for StubHub's top sellers who prove they can move more than $50,000 worth of tickets a year.

The company offers them special software to upload and manage huge inventories of tickets.

In its Top Seller Handbook, Stubhub offers incentives for high-volume resellers, including reducing its 10 per cent cut on each ticket sold. The higher the reseller's numbers, the sweeter the deal, with special rates for those who hit sales of $250,000, $500,000 and up to $5 million US per year."
But no way are they supporting the use of BOTS....................................and I believe them.:rolleyes:
 

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It seems seems that a Canadian is one of the worst. The dirty bastard uses bots to buy multiple tickets for each of his family members.
 

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I bet there are a lot more out there, than just him, doing exactly this

if he has millions in revenue, like they say he has.....he probably has a team of programmers working for him

and pays people all over the world to run his bot software
 
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