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So was his Tele, and Stevie Ray Vaughan's #1 Strat.

Fenders were designed to become Partscasters when the neck wears out. Based on that, I don't consider any value lost on a non-collectors grade Fender that has had the neck swapped for another of equal or lesser value.

Basically I'm not saying I'd pay full price for a Custom Shop Tele with a Baja neck, but I would pay full price for an American Special with a Baja neck.

The waters really get muddied when using genuine Fender parts like the neck I used for mine. It has a Squier body but if it had a Fender body would it be a Fender?
 

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Does Gibson own a worldwide patent? What if a Chinese guitar maker names their company Gibson, stamped Gibson on the headstock and also stamped "made in China", would that still be a fake? This is a legitimate question, I'm wondering what the actual patent law would be.
 

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Depends on whether the trademark is registered internationally or not. If international then that Chinese company could be sued.
 

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Does Gibson own a worldwide patent? What if a Chinese guitar maker names their company Gibson, stamped Gibson on the headstock and also stamped "made in China", would that still be a fake? This is a legitimate question, I'm wondering what the actual patent law would be.
Depends on whether the trademark is registered internationally or not. If international then that Chinese company could be sued.
It would be trademark law.
My understanding is that trademark laws are country by country and, barring this being covered by some treaties or something, a company would have to register its trademark in every country where it would like to own it. Of course, if a company wanted to sell Gibson-branded guitars in the USA, they'd run afoul of the US trademark laws.

There was some issue with DiMarzio trademarking double cream pickups, but it only applied in the US because other countries didn't recognize an American trademark.

This happened with Sigma guitars. They used to be owned by Martin and, when they sold the brand to AMI Musical Instruments so the German company could revive the brand, the Sigma trademark was now owned by someone else in the USA, so Sigma Guitars are sold as Kindred Guitars in the USA.
 

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There's nothing wrong with buying a Chinese guitar that looks exactly like a real Gibson and selling it for a profit. That's just business. The more profit, the better.
 

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Fakes are for ripping people off and should all be destroyed. Copies are cool with me.
Well said. It's like a tribute band that is doing covers of their favourite artist -- they can sell tickets and even have their own loyal following. But what if that same band sold tickets pretending to be the actual band? Everyone would be enraged. The product is the same, but the branding makes a difference. One is honest, while the other is being deceitful to attract more buyers not based on their own merits. To me, that's the same as copies and fakes.
 

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I think it's safe to say we all have different opinions on fakes and copies and maybe more importantly we all have different opinions about this and how they should be viewed and possibly handled from a business, legal or even ethical standpoint.

I'm really enjoying the discussion so far. I'm trying to keep myself open minded about everyone's point of view and i'm hoping everyone else is as well.

I personally don't see this as a completely black and white, good or bad scenario. I had written a different longer post trying to explain myself in some detail but it wasn't getting my point across well and I didn't want it to turn this thread into a bunch of posts going back and forth saying 'this is right' and 'that is wrong' .

One point I was thinking about and that i'm curious to get some opinions on is services like historic makeovers. They basically turn your Les Paul into a '59 replica. They replace parts (maple top, fingerboard and binding) with non Gibson materials, re-carve the neck, refinish the guitar and actually redo the logo and serial number (they do use the same serial you guitar came with).

What do you guys think about getting your Gibson re-done like that? and more importantly is it worth 2K-4K
 

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What do you guys think about getting your Gibson re-done like that? and more importantly is it worth 2K-4K
In my opinion, I would still put an instrument as you described in the "modified instruments " category and for me personally, I would consider that to detract from the value of the instrument.

If you take a $4k guitar and put another $2k into it to change the top, the hardware, etc. Even if it's a super high quality retrofit that's invisible to the naked eye, I would think you will have a hard time getting the original $4k for that instrument when you want to sell it. For me, I would value that guitar at far below $4k; I'd probably offer 2,000 of it were a nice enough player, but all of the collectors value is gone and the price should reflect that.
 

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Regarding the makeover thing I'll just say that Historic Makeovers guitars or Dave Johnson Makeovers guitars never, ever, have a hard time selling. In almost every case I've seen, they sell for well above what that same guitar would go for new.

And, At that level of geekdom, different buyers are attracted.
I hobby build vintage inspired singlecuts (I use my own headstock and name logo FWIW) And with guitar players, there are two very distinct camps.
On one side, I get the "you charge more than a real new Gibson?!" And on the other hand I get "how do I get on a list for one".

I personally don't replicate down to every last detail such as name and headstock, but I do understand why that is done, and those guitars will always be much more desirable and never mistaken for what they are. That is never their intent.

Violins, "A" and "f" style mandolins, pianos, acoustic dreadnaught or OM squared headed guitars, ukelalees, etc etc. all of these instruments, regardless of theit manufacture share identical silhouettes. No one bats an eye?
Many Stradivarius 'fakes' were in fact just built and labeled in the 'style' of Stradivarius, never with the intention on deceiving the buyer.

What I see in the Fender style of guitar, or Martin, or Gibson F style Mandolins and how competition, boutique and large manufacturer, has pushed everyone within those styles to create amazingly well made instruments. To me that's true crafstmenship.
Survival of the fittest.
It's why Lie Nielsen planes (admittedly 'better replicas') blow modern made Stanley planes out of the water.
 

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I think we can all have different opinions about fakes or replicas or whatever, when used for personal consumption.

But when selling a guitar to the public, to misrepresent a guitar as something it is not is criminal intent. I think we can all agree with that.
 
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I think we can all have different opinions about fakes or replicas or whatever, when used for personal consumption.

But when selling a guitar to the public, to misrepresent a guitar as something it is not is criminal intent. I think we can all agree with that.
This is exactly what I was trying to get at.
 

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Regarding the makeover thing I'll just say that Historic Makeovers guitars or Dave Johnson Makeovers guitars never, ever, have a hard time selling. In almost every case I've seen, they sell for well above what that same guitar would go for new.

And, At that level of geekdom, different buyers are attracted.
I hobby build vintage inspired singlecuts (I use my own headstock and name logo FWIW) And with guitar players, there are two very distinct camps.
On one side, I get the "you charge more than a real new Gibson?!" And on the other hand I get "how do I get on a list for one".
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It's why Lie Nielsen planes (admittedly 'better replicas') blow modern made Stanley planes out of the water.
Sorry to correct you, but you forgot the ESL in the name.


:rolleyes:
 
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