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Discussion Starter #1
I've been trying to put together my perfect tone for the past year and a half. From selecting the right amp with the right speakers and the right pedals and the right NOS or current production tubes. My band mates and friends may think I'm a little obsessed and maybe I am. But to me its been a fun hobby. And an expensive one.Well for the past couple of weeks I've been thinking a lot about cables and have been doing a lot of research. I've been using Planet Waves for the past year and they've been doing a pretty good job. But now I'm thinking of stepping up to a more expensive cable. Just an experiment really.
I've read lava cables "Cable Summit", (a bit outdated) and read countless reviews on different cables. I've read how the different high end cables can cater to different styles, etc. Its too bad I didn't have access to the different cables so I could test them my self before buying. Lack of free access to these cable's is what will make this experiment expensive. So I'm trying to do as much research as possible so that hopefully I can select the right cables for me first time.
I have come to the conclusion that the Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables seem to be the appropriate choice for me. They are fairly expensive but not as much as the Vanden hull which were close to being my first choice.
I'll be ordering in the next day or 2 as soon as I psyche my self up to putting that much on the credit card. After I have tested them I'll post my thoughts.
 

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Sounds cool, and fun. Let us know what happens.

It's obvious, but whatever you do, compare equal lengths, and for any purpose shorter is better.

Peace, Mooh.
 

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I absolutely love my Bullet Cables coiled cable. Compared to the Planet Waves, it's a little darker on the top, with thicker mids. Really helps out overdriven tones, and is still bright enough for cleans. Pricey, though.
 

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so many incidentals can affect an influence on sound...

air humidity...(moist air dampens speaker cone movement)
elevation from sea level (air pressure changes affecting sound waves)
ac/dc power (dc power is more consistant yet shorter life)
new strings/old strings(eddie van halen swears by old strings)
hemp cones/paper cones
tortex picks/plastic picks
physical size of the room
long cables/short cables
straight cables/coily cables
steel connectors/gold connectors
etc...the list is endless

did you know that eric johnson is so tuned into the miniscule details of his sound that he can tell you what brand of batteries are used in effects pedals...and exactly how many minutes are left on them before they die...???...

"in the ballpark" is about as close as anyone is ever gonna get to their tone...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
so many incidentals can affect an influence on sound...

air humidity...(moist air dampens speaker cone movement)
elevation from sea level (air pressure changes affecting sound waves)
ac/dc power (dc power is more consistant yet shorter life)
new strings/old strings(eddie van halen swears by old strings)
hemp cones/paper cones
tortex picks/plastic picks
physical size of the room
long cables/short cables
straight cables/coily cables
steel connectors/gold connectors
etc...the list is endless

did you know that eric johnson is so tuned into the miniscule details of his sound that he can tell you what brand of batteries are used in effects pedals...and exactly how many minutes are left on them before they die...???...

"in the ballpark" is about as close as anyone is ever gonna get to their tone...
Whats the point of agonizing over things you can't control like air and humidity?
GOD, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference:smile:
 

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Fundamentally, as wire, the role that a cable can play is a direct function of its length. Every line foot of cable increases the impact of whatever qualities the cable has (or doesn't). That's why you can use the crappiest cable in the world for a 6" patch cable between pedals, and it won't matter. If you normally run a 25 footer between your guitar and first pedal, though, cable WILL change your tone in one way or another.

Feel free to try this experiment at home. Take a standard 6-8" pedal patch cord and if possible plug your guitar directly into your amp with that cable. Now, take your longest (and what you consider "best") cable, and plug your guitar directly into the amp with that. The difference in tone will likely make you do a double take.
 

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Or, if you have a loop box, go guitar to box and box to amp with the shortest cables you have and in the loop, put the longest cable you have.
Play through that while stomping on the switch to introduce and remove the long cable. This way gives to instant feedback as to how cable length can, in most cases, deteriorate your guitar tone.
B.
 

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As mentioned, length is really the major factor here. Wire is wire and will pass signal the same no matter what name is on the box. Connectors can high of higher or lower quality and you get what you pay for there.

as jimihendrix said, there are far more factors that you can't control that a different cable can't make that much difference. Snake oil, nothing more. You can change the cord between your guitar and amp a hundred times, yet the wire in your guitar and in your amp is the same old $0.01 copper wire... huh.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
As mentioned, length is really the major factor here. Wire is wire and will pass signal the same no matter what name is on the box. Connectors can high of higher or lower quality and you get what you pay for there.
So you feel there is no difference between solid core or stranded, oxygen free copper etc..?

as jimihendrix said, there are far more factors that you can't control that a different cable can't make that much difference. Snake oil, nothing more. You can change the cord between your guitar and amp a hundred times, yet the wire in your guitar and in your amp is the same old $0.01 copper wire... huh.
So because we can't control certain factors in our environment you're saying nothing you do will make a difference?
I'll bet the naysayers are those that have no experience with said "Snake oil". Which is exactly why I will experiment with this. If I'm going to become a nay sayer I at least want to be an educated one.
Let some one come on here who used a very high end cable tell me that its exactly the same as the $1.99 specials at Long&Mcquade.
 

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Some wire will always be different than others. Whether it's quality of copper, or the dielectric used to shield the cable, amount of capacitance, etc. There's a ton of reasons why some cable is different than others. Whether or not you like the difference, or perceive it as being better, is up to you.

Go nuts with cables. You might find one that does exactly what you want it to.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Some wire will always be different than others. Whether it's quality of copper, or the dielectric used to shield the cable, amount of capacitance, etc. There's a ton of reasons why some cable is different than others. Whether or not you like the difference, or perceive it as being better, is up to you.

Go nuts with cables. You might find one that does exactly what you want it to.
What I don't get is there are people that swear by boutiqe amps made with superior transformers and wiring and pedals made of high quality materials and electronics and guitars that are hand made with better materials, yet when it comes to cables they doubt that better quality materials and scientific design make a difference. WTF!!!
This is a serious hobby to me and I will hot rod the hell out different components in my signal chain for the hell of it. I'll keep the things that benefit me positively and discard those that don't make a difference.
All I really want from a cable is for it to completely deliver my signal to its fullest potential so that I can hear the full potential of my guitar and amp. Whether a high end cable will do this better than my Planet waves cables remains to be seen. At this point I'm not spending money on the guarantee that the results will be favorable. I'm spending money on the opportunity to find out if it will. If it does work out then thats a bonus. And this is really what I've been doing with every component in my signal chain all along. From the guitar to the amp to the speakers I use in my amp to the tubes I've put in my amp and now the cables. When it came to the amps and my guitars I was lucky enough that L&M had a policy that allowed me to take them home and out on gigs to give them a full test drive before purchase. Even then I've purchased amps only to return them or sell them after a few months when I decided it wasn't what I want. I have one amp that is a life keeper and one of my 2 teles is a for sure life keeper. I've a massed a collection of tubes experimenting with what sounded better. Now I feel the last thing to do is test cables. I'd love to hear from people that have actually owned high end cables and low end and tell me there is no difference. But pretty much all the nay sayers are people that have never experienced the different cables and aren't discriminating enough about their sound to give 2 hoots anyway. And there is nothing wrong with not giving 2 hoots. I've got a brother that has sunk several thousand dollars in to the engine of his souped up car with chrome parts and other enhancements, some that make the car go faster and some that make it pretty. I'm not educated enough about cars to tell him what makes a difference and what doesn't even though I drive a car. So I just keep my mouth shut.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
check this thread for the great cable debate...

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=5127143

there are links to a guitarplayer mag cable shootout...

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/49-guitar-cables/apr-08/34729

i own two dogs...three cats...three ferrets...they all love to chew cables...i'd be outta my mind to buy "boutique" cables....anything that involves a credit card to purchase are out of my league...
Well hell, I wouldn't even want an animal to chew up my Planet waves cables or the cheap one I keep by my bedside for jamming on my Peavy Bandit.
I've read those links you posted and many more. I've been researching for many days now. Beleive me I don't take this lightly. I find out as much as I can to see how much sense it makes. Then I see where the top of my budget is. I try to forecast the diminishing returns on how much I project to spend. With something like this, in the end it's gonna come down to a certain amount of faith.
 

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So you feel there is no difference between solid core or stranded, oxygen free copper etc..?

So because we can't control certain factors in our environment you're saying nothing you do will make a difference?
I'll bet the naysayers are those that have no experience with said "Snake oil". Which is exactly why I will experiment with this. If I'm going to become a nay sayer I at least want to be an educated one.
Let some one come on here who used a very high end cable tell me that its exactly the same as the $1.99 specials at Long&Mcquade.

Oxygen free copper? Are you kidding me? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Copper and Oxygen are both BASIC ELEMENTS. Copper can oxidize when exposed to air (the outer layer, in other words, a purely cosmetic change). No cable maker can change basic chemistry.

I'm not saying that nothing we do can make a difference, not at all.

But the point stands, you can buy all the expensive cables you want, but the wire at the BEGINNING and END of the chain remains unchanged.

Yes, a good quality cable will make your tone better. But a $300 patch cord is a joke and it's makers are laughing all the way to the bank. In the end, as long as the cable is not degrading the tone in anyway, you have achieving all the cable you need. Buying a better cable cannot add back frequencies or "mojo" that isn't there to begin with in the wiring of the guitar and amp.
 

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i dont bother with boutique stuff- the tone may be better, or it may be worse than that of some stock old gear. i look for tonal improvements in the guitars set up- i may tweak the amp to get it to perform the way i want. i might muck about with tube swaps, or tone caps etc- might swap some speakers- but mostly just using parts ive got around-
i dont throw money at "tone" because all too often i see guys buy expensive this and expensive that and they still sound like crap- or just the same as before.
i use good old belden cable, and switchcraft plugs. something else may last longer, and may sound different, but better? maybe for some, maybe even for me, but id never bother. i just dont have the urge to get that into the tiny details-
you however, have the urge, the motivation, and the resources- so why not?
do what pleases you, man.
 

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i dont throw money at "tone" because all too often i see guys buy expensive this and expensive that and they still sound like crap- or just the same as before.
When did you hear me play? :mad:

I admit I'm a bit of a cable snob. I have tried many expensive cables and I do believe they make a difference to some extent. I have tried the Evidence Audio and a couple others from Mark at Lava Cable (my whole pedalboard is done with some of his "mid-priced" cable). I use Kimber and Two Rock speaker cables, have Van Den Hul interconnects on my Hi-fi, and have lots of high end instrument cables (Two Rock, Klotz, Excalibur, Canare, Mogami).

It really comes down to whether you think it is worth it. Even though there is a difference from one cable to another, it is usually very subtle and "better" to one person may be "worse" to the next. For example, sometimes one cable sounds brighter than another one, but is that better or worse? And, if you don't like it can't you just knock the treble knob on the amp back a bit? 9kkhhd

In the end I have probably spent way too much on cables than any sane person would, but have enjoyed experimenting along the way. And no one will ever convince me that "wire is wire". There is a difference.
 

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Simple answere is YES.

I changed out to monster Cables Studio Pro 1000's two years ago. Great cable. The Evidence Lyric is another, Mogami another, and there are several more great cables.

Anyone who thinks it's snake oil needs to take another listen.

If you don't have the cable stop by my place I have a few different kinds kicking around and I'd be happy to A/B them.

Oxygen corrodes is does not conduct... simple physics air is a resistance.
All copper conductors are not created equal. Read anything on the research of conductors and you will quickly see there is a science behind the material used for conductors.

The cable is as important as the speakers, tubes, component quality and cicuit layout, pickups and dare I say even the guitar used.

Proof is in the pudding:smile:
 
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