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Thanks Tarl! :smilie_flagge17:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I hope we can get lots of forum members to sign especially with Mr. Bush's latest snub to Canadian sovereinty in the Arctic. Scary stuff.......
 

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In response to Bush's predictable and baseless comments on Canadian soveriegnty in the Arctic I say we take Alaska.

:smilie_flagge17:
 

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I hope we can get lots of forum members to sign especially with Mr. Bush's latest snub to Canadian sovereinty in the Arctic. Scary stuff.......
h'ok.... so... What? I obviously missed what Bush said about the arctic.
 

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h'ok.... so... What? I obviously missed what Bush said about the arctic.
Basically he thinks the Arctic or at least the NW passage, belongs to everyone and is not really a part of Canada.

Alaska would be a fair exchange I suppose.
 

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did anyone see the 3 supposed cops undercover trying to make the protesters look bad (and to make it look like the big security budget was worth it) there is a facebook video but unfortunately I do not yet know how to do a link. read about this on Yahoo canada news this am. pretty sick stuff.
cheers
Gerry
 

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Bush and the Arctic

Warning! Wild Bill Cynic Alert!

I'm much too classic liberal to support SPP but that's ok. We all have a right to our beliefs.

As for this Arctic thing, am I the only one to sense some grandstanding going on?

Why would Bush want the Northwest Passage to be declared international waters, in the interest of security? If the waters are international, then it's not just America that can sail through. It's every country in the world, including those Bush might consider a security threat!

It can't be buried oil and gas. He made a point of respecting the islands, and with the underwater shelves in between that's essentially conceding the buried resources belong to Canada.

Certainly he doesn't want everything handed to Russia!

Meanwhile, the ex-US ambassador to Canada makes a public statement about how it would be in America's best interest to support Canada's claims to the Arctic, AT THE SAME TIME as Bush is having his photo op!

Now, being an ex-ambassador means his words are only his personal opinion and not American policy but I can't believe he would pull such a career limiting move as to cross the policy of his incumbent government. Far more likely he was TOLD to make his speech!

So what's going on? Maybe the answer is quite simple. For over a hundred and some odd years we've invested diddley squat in our far North. We've put the land in our history books but never built much of anything up there, including ships that could reliably cut through the ice. The only defence money spent was by America, with the DEW line. All we've ever done is draft some of the native peoples into the army reserves as Rangers.

Now things are different! We'll cheerfully support investing in our Arctic sovreignity if it means bashing Bush! His administration is not so blind that they don't know how so many of us feel about him. As a lame duck president I don't think he gives a fig as to how he goes down in CANADIAN history so why not make an issue out of the North to light a fire under our collective asses?

I mean, for the first time in our history we actually seem to be doing something! And actually spending money! Since Trudeau's time we've been mostly freeloaders on the international scene. Like a cliche Scotsman we've been long on pride and short on kicking in our share of the cash.

In short, I think it's all just a conspiracy to get us to actually put up or shut up about the Arctic region.

Just my cynical opinion!

:food-smiley-004:
 

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did anyone see the 3 supposed cops undercover trying to make the protesters look bad (and to make it look like the big security budget was worth it) there is a facebook video but unfortunately I do not yet know how to do a link. read about this on Yahoo canada news this am. pretty sick stuff.
cheers
Gerry
Why sick stuff? Personally, I'd be more offended if the police DIDN'T infiltrate the protestors! In these times there's always "just another berserker who's prepared to die!", as Firesign Theater put it. Too many of them, in fact.

Don't get me wrong. I've still got enough hippy left in me to support the right to protest. It's just that over the past few years it seems to be a different scene.

There are too many claims about the same faces appearing at virtually every protest about virtually everything to dismiss them as government propaganda. I've been watching the tv news and the newspaper photos myself and I think there's a lot of truth to the story.

If so, that's a LOT different from the protest scene of my formative years! We protested because we BELIEVED! Our numbers were made up of ordinary folks who shared the same values, NOT because we worked for "Rent-A-Gripe"!

I don't like manipulation, from ANY side of the political spectrum!

In the 60's we had rallies where we were "half a million strong", as Joni sang it. Now what do we have? The same few busloads at every photo-op for the radical left?

Sellouts, the lot of them!

:sport-smiley-002:
 

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did anyone see the 3 supposed cops undercover trying to make the protesters look bad (and to make it look like the big security budget was worth it) there is a facebook video but unfortunately I do not yet know how to do a link. read about this on Yahoo canada news this am. pretty sick stuff.
cheers
Gerry
Here is a link to an article with the youtube video:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20070821180724319

'Agent Provocateurs' have been used all the time, they provoke violence so the coppers can use their fancy toys and bust a few heads, thankfully, there were observant and level-headed people there.

I think the whole arctic thing is to give stevie points in 'standing up to that bully bush' and to distract attention away from what the protest was all about - the NAU.
 

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Warning! Wild Bill Cynic Alert!

So what's going on? Maybe the answer is quite simple. For over a hundred and some odd years we've invested diddley squat in our far North. We've put the land in our history books but never built much of anything up there, including ships that could reliably cut through the ice. The only defence money spent was by America, with the DEW line. All we've ever done is draft some of the native peoples into the army reserves as Rangers.

I mean, for the first time in our history we actually seem to be doing something! And actually spending money! Since Trudeau's time we've been mostly freeloaders on the international scene. Like a cliche Scotsman we've been long on pride and short on kicking in our share of the cash.

In short, I think it's all just a conspiracy to get us to actually put up or shut up about the Arctic region.

Just my cynical opinion!

:food-smiley-004:
You may be right about this being a way to get us to invest more in our Northern defense.

As for us being freeloaders on the international scene, I presume you mean we've been typical Canadians and minded our own business?

Avoided pi$$ing in the world's collective cornflakes


that sort of thing?
 
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Why would Bush want the Northwest Passage to be declared international waters, in the interest of security? If the waters are international, then it's not just America that can sail through. It's every country in the world, including those Bush might consider a security threat!

It can't be buried oil and gas. He made a point of respecting the islands, and with the underwater shelves in between that's essentially conceding the buried resources belong to Canada.
As I understood oil does play into it. The floor along the NW passage is accessible by modern drilling platforms and assumed rich in oil.

It's also about accessibility. Being able to leave subs and ships in that water without having to declare their presence to either Canada or Russia makes spying on your neighbours a whole lot simpler.
 

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A little off topic but I suppose if we need to, all Canadians that own Skidoo's could all head to the Artic for a show of Canadian presence. There's not enough snow in southern ontario to use them down here anyway.

I don't care which political party you support but I'm for less USA influence on Canada. NAFTA is bullcrap. remember mad cow. what about the lumber dispute. now they want access to our water . they already control most of our other natural resourses. have you been through the border lately.

cheers
RIFF
 

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As for us being freeloaders on the international scene, I presume you mean we've been typical Canadians and minded our own business?

Avoided pi$$ing in the world's collective cornflakes


that sort of thing?
Well, I won't deny that sometimes the Americans have been pushy. Still, are you saying that if we simply mind our own business every other country in the world will think we are wonderful people and never try anything negative with us?

Off shore foreign fishing fleets, perhaps? I mean, even Spain and Portugal have more powerful navies than we do and made it quite plain that they intend to fish until the last cod and turbot is gone and who cares how Canada feels! We literally have not dared to challenge them and they continue scraping nets across miles of ocean bottom to this day.

Or if Putin wants to drill for oil and gas in the Arctic do you think he actually cares how we feel about it? What could we do back to him? Call him names?

Ever notice how in the neighbourhood even the nicest kids can be bulllied if they are perceived as a weak target.

If someone bullies us, just what do you think we can do about it? Blow them a kiss and sing "One Tin Soldier"?

It's just a sad fact of human nature that usually you have to be strong to avoid being bullied. I wish it weren't true, but the world is as the world will be.

:food-smiley-004:
 

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Well, I won't deny that sometimes the Americans have been pushy. Still, are you saying that if we simply mind our own business every other country in the world will think we are wonderful people and never try anything negative with us?

Off shore foreign fishing fleets, perhaps? I mean, even Spain and Portugal have more powerful navies than we do and made it quite plain that they intend to fish until the last cod and turbot is gone and who cares how Canada feels! We literally have not dared to challenge them and they continue scraping nets across miles of ocean bottom to this day.

Or if Putin wants to drill for oil and gas in the Arctic do you think he actually cares how we feel about it? What could we do back to him? Call him names?

Ever notice how in the neighbourhood even the nicest kids can be bulllied if they are perceived as a weak target.

If someone bullies us, just what do you think we can do about it? Blow them a kiss and sing "One Tin Soldier"?

It's just a sad fact of human nature that usually you have to be strong to avoid being bullied. I wish it weren't true, but the world is as the world will be.

:food-smiley-004:

I've always believed the world is what we make of it.


I'm suggesting we mind our business until someone gives us just cause to do otherwise.

Somehow in more than thirty years of playing bars I've managed to avoid fights.

On the one or two occasions I have had to resort to physical defense it has been over very quickly. Once you attack me, all's fair. Hit me with your fist, I'll hit you with a mic stand.

Get the picture?
 

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You may be right about this being a way to get us to invest more in our Northern defense.
I had a great idea for this, but the then Minister of Defense just sent a form "Thank you" note.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia needed money. It had lots of leftover military resources. It also had a good arctic defense force. Canada has money and desperately needs military resources. We don't have enough money to make or buy our own military resources. We also need factories, which Russia had an abundance of and we sold ours out to the American's (and overseas) and still continue to do so. We also need a good arctic defense.

It would have been a match made in heaven.

But now we have the US, Russia and Denmark are all wanting a piece of our snowball.
 
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