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Discussion Starter #1
Guys, I have been looking at this problem i have been having with my 4 x 12 cab. Its a vintage Avatar cab.. I just have to many harsh highs or noise that makes me want to play with earplugs in or listen through the mixer because the cab records without the harshness. I just came to the realisation that maybe I really liked the boring old Marshall loaded GT-75 cab because Marshalls use thicker grill cloth which probably diffuses the highs? Am I off here? Anyone experience annoying highs and deal with them or heard a difference when playing diff cabs? I wanted an Avatar becaue i wanted the freedom of mixing speakers.. in hindsight, maybe I should have just stuck with the boring old 4 x 12 from Marshall eh?:bow:

The only other thing I can think about is maybe trying those beamblockers..
 

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Guys, I have been looking at this problem i have been having with my 4 x 12 cab. Its a vintage Avatar cab.. I just have to many harsh highs or noise that makes me want to play with earplugs in or listen through the mixer because the cab records without the harshness. I just came to the realisation that maybe I really liked the boring old Marshall loaded GT-75 cab because Marshalls use thicker grill cloth which probably diffuses the highs? Am I off here? Anyone experience annoying highs and deal with them or heard a difference when playing diff cabs? I wanted an Avatar becaue i wanted the freedom of mixing speakers.. in hindsight, maybe I should have just stuck with the boring old 4 x 12 from Marshall eh?:bow:

The only other thing I can think about is maybe trying those beamblockers..
Doubt if the grill cloth is much of a factor.

What speakers are in the Avatar?

:food-smiley-004:
 

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The speakers are usually the issue. Are they V30s?

You can put some Weber beam blockers on, on try the SRV trick of puttung a bit of duct tape on the grill cloth over the centre of the speaker cone.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
It just seems like all the combinations of the following produce the highs:

g12h30
V30 clones
Reissue Greenbacks

I will say that the v30's result in more fizz when mixed in with either of these. I am not sure how i can explain "fizz" but if you have experienced it, you'll know. The thing that gets me is why this great cab with all these diff speakers does not sound as good to the ear as the stock g-12T (which aren't even 75's) that came with my valvestate over 14 years ago? Strange..
I will say that the g12h30 def have the bass response that the others seem to lack..and i am getting tired of swapping speakers in and out lol. Also have some samis that i threw into the mix and they don't seem to be pairing well with the v30's at the moment. Oh the horror of cabs and speakers... :rockon2:
 

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It just seems like all the combinations of the following produce the highs:

g12h30
V30 clones
Reissue Greenbacks

I will say that the v30's result in more fizz when mixed in with either of these. I am not sure how i can explain "fizz" but if you have experienced it, you'll know. The thing that gets me is why this great cab with all these diff speakers does not sound as good to the ear as the stock g-12T (which aren't even 75's) that came with my valvestate over 14 years ago? Strange..
I will say that the g12h30 def have the bass response that the others seem to lack..and i am getting tired of swapping speakers in and out lol. Also have some samis that i threw into the mix and they don't seem to be pairing well with the v30's at the moment. Oh the horror of cabs and speakers... :rockon2:
Part of the problem may be that Celestions are SUPPOSED to be bright! That's the British sound! They're also very quick in cone response time. This means they do a better job reproducing "fizz".

This is why Eminence splits their line into British and American sound. You might be happier choosing an American voiced speaker. They tend to emphasize mids-down, instead of mids-up.

Another factor to consider when you ask why speakers from 14 years ago sound better is that Celestions today are made in China!

Leaving aside any worries that there's lead in their paint, when was the last time you heard a rock guitar god from China? In some parts of that country I hear you can be shot for listening to rock!

Whatever's going on or whatever you think of Chinese products, it's a fact that something's no longer the same with modern Celestions. If you check out Ebay you will see that vintage Celestions are often sold for better prices than new.

There's gotta be some difference people are hearing! Meanwhile, Emininence and Weber sales just keep climbing...

:food-smiley-004:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
How does that explain the V30 clones? I think i am starting from teh ground up. two 50 watt sammi speakers in the 4x12 to get that ported sound and i will see if they fizz out as well. Man i should have just bought that 4x12 loaded with gt-75's.. standard old marshalls coop sound but it sounded right. but nooo i had to get all fancy and now look at me lol.. I am honestly scared to try more speakers for fear that they all suck huge. HEaring sound clips is ok, mine sound fine when recorded... but live, that is the kicker. Maybe those scumbacks really are worth what you pay for em.
 

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Hey,

In this post you mentioned that your Valvestate was 14 years old. Were the speakers also 14 years old? Speakers mello with age, so anything new will result in a much brighter sound at least for the first little while.

There are a few ways to curb the high end in your speakers. Someone allready suggested the duct tape (beam blocker), which works pretty well. Another way is to put larger (paper - not metal) dust caps on the cones - but this is kind of impractical unless you want to have a custom speaker.

If resale ralue of the speaker doesn't matter to you, you can also add mass to the center of the cone. Paint, silicone, glue (the afore mentioned dustcap), rocker guard are examples of things I've seen people use in the past. All of them will change the sound of the speaker, but if you don't like the results, you'll be stuck.

I would try breaking in the cones you have (if you haven't allready done so) before doing anything drastic.

I guess this isn't something that you can tweek out with the EQ on the amp?


Andy


It just seems like all the combinations of the following produce the highs:

g12h30
V30 clones
Reissue Greenbacks

I will say that the v30's result in more fizz when mixed in with either of these. I am not sure how i can explain "fizz" but if you have experienced it, you'll know. The thing that gets me is why this great cab with all these diff speakers does not sound as good to the ear as the stock g-12T (which aren't even 75's) that came with my valvestate over 14 years ago? Strange..
I will say that the g12h30 def have the bass response that the others seem to lack..and i am getting tired of swapping speakers in and out lol. Also have some samis that i threw into the mix and they don't seem to be pairing well with the v30's at the moment. Oh the horror of cabs and speakers... :rockon2:
 

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I probably find myself in a minority but I tend to like the G12T-75. Quite a lot actually. Perhaps it's because I'm old or something but that speaker works for what I like. Gimme a 1960A loaded with 75's (and someone to carry it) and that'd do it for me.
 

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I probably find myself in a minority but I tend to like the G12T-75. Quite a lot actually. Perhaps it's because I'm old or something but that speaker works for what I like. Gimme a 1960A loaded with 75's (and someone to carry it) and that'd do it for me.
I used to have a 1936 with G12T-75's in it, and I liked it a lot. I got an Avatar with 2 V30's to replace, and really like that! Now I have a Hellatone 30/Warehouse Guitar Speakers V30 clone in the Avatar. It's a great combo as well. But, I want a 4x12 Straight with 2 Greenbacks in it now. But my point (I think I had one) is that the G12T-75's are really good speakers, and often crapped on for no reason. But I think the others I mentioned are a 'better' sounding speaker IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That's the catch, the GT-75 is great at a certain rock sound. I loved the marshall cb i tried but i was reading soo much about these othe rspeakrs and i wanted a more versatile sound so i decided to go with a mixed cab. Maybe i do need to do the temporary duct tape on the speaker for now to break em in. One thing for sure though, i hear the "fizz" with the V30 clones the most. I am also thinking of running a ported cab and using only 2 speakers in my Avatar cab. (as long as wattage works out) that is. Do I absolutely need a 100 watt cab total to run my 50 watt amps? 2 greenbacks are just 50 watt so can't do that..
 

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That's the catch, the GT-75 is great at a certain rock sound. I loved the marshall cb i tried but i was reading soo much about these othe rspeakrs and i wanted a more versatile sound so i decided to go with a mixed cab. Maybe i do need to do the temporary duct tape on the speaker for now to break em in. One thing for sure though, i hear the "fizz" with the V30 clones the most. I am also thinking of running a ported cab and using only 2 speakers in my Avatar cab. (as long as wattage works out) that is. Do I absolutely need a 100 watt cab total to run my 50 watt amps? 2 greenbacks are just 50 watt so can't do that..
As long as you don't dime your amp constantly, I can't see 2 Greenbacks not being able to handle a 50 watt amp. Lots of guys run 100 watt amps into 4x12's with Greenbacks.
 

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if you're cranking up a halfstack with this 412... wear ear plugs.

one of my friends who used to gig fairly regularly said to me "use ear protection, and then dial in your tone. that's what the audience will be hearing"

i find my triple X cab to be too trebly, until i use ear protection.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How does that work? If I wear hearing protection, all of the speaker combos sound killer! When It ake them off as the audience would, i hear the highs! Maybe because they are further away from the speakers.. who knows. What is in those peavey cabs anyways? v30's?

I usually dime my NMV plexi clone and run a bb preamp so i might not be safe with two greenies. I think i will try just two g12h30's and 2 sammi's on their own though. I'll report back in a few days when i've got it. If all else fails, i am gonna find me some used g12t75's! Hell after 14 years those speakers in my valvestate sound good, someone's used g12t75's probably sound pretty dang good.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
This is where it is strange, the 75's were in a brand new cab. Unless they had been broken in by loud store playing from people trying out marshall amps etc.. I'm going to keep trying to break in the g12h30's, they were showing the most promise in terms of starting to mellow and smooth out.
 

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This is where it is strange, the 75's were in a brand new cab. Unless they had been broken in by loud store playing from people trying out marshall amps etc.. I'm going to keep trying to break in the g12h30's, they were showing the most promise in terms of starting to mellow and smooth out.
The G12H30 is probably my favorite speaker. I bought the Hellatone version 3 years ago that has made it through a number of amps and slowly it got sweeter and sweeter. It's in my 68' Princeton now and although it seems an odd combination it works beautifully.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Maybe if Steamco had sent me hellatone 30's in this cab like I had ordered it would have been sweeter. That really annoyed me.. months later when i opened it, no hellatone, just straight g12h30. So now i have to break em in somehow... which i guess is through loud @$$ playing.
 

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why dont you email them and tell them what happened then?

the distance will probably take away some of the highs, yes - it only hurts my ears to be at the FRONT of shows :p
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I did, they said woops...

really nothing they can do. They are speakers that have mileage on them now. Stamco said they would let Avatar know as with these custom order vintage cabs, they came from Avatar first and were put together there. So i get the joy of breaking them in. Soo far the most tolerable has been 2 sammis and 2 reissue greenbacks. I guess I will roll with that till they break in, its rather smooth but still a bit raspy for now. The sammis help the bottom end stay tight though, i like that.
 
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