[ne1roc]

...which begs the question: is there a reason why your children should be afraid of you?

-dh

They should fear what you will do, be it spanking, standing in the corner, or getting their allowance taken away.

I don't drink and drive because of fear of loosing my license and going to jail, not because I am a responsible adult.......because that is just too politically correct for me!

Out of interest David, how old is your daughter? Daughters are angels until they reach grade 8.

 

[The Kicker Of Elves]

i'm still convinced that spanking is a poor substitute for good parenting skills and the ability to communicate with and discipline a child.

It should not be a substitute. It can, however, be part of a parent's range of disciplines used to correct behavior.

Insinuating or declaring that "good parenting skills" can't include phsical discipline is going to the extreme again.

It's like a person on the "pro-spanking" side* claiming that "only a bad wussy parent doesn't spank their children." It's a fallacy.


*(not the "hot wax, leather and spike heels" type of spanking)

 

[The Kicker Of Elves]

They should fear what you will do, be it spanking, standing in the corner, or getting their allowance taken away.

I don't drink and drive because of fear of loosing my license and going to jail, not because I am a responsible adult.......because that is just too politically correct for me!

Out of interest David, how old is your daughter? Daughters are angels until they reach grade 8.

Take the word "fear" and replace it with "respect", and it is a little closer to what I think you are getting at...

We don't live in terror of going to jail (unless charges are pending) and neither does a child who knows certain actions can have consequences.

The argumentative question "Do you want your child to be afraid of you?" is tossed out a lot in this kind of debate, and it's a load of ****.

Of course I don't want my kid to be afraid of me, and I wasn't afraid of my parents growing up. I did respect them, I respected their authority and that my actions had consequences.

 

[david henman]

They should fear what you will do, be it spanking, standing in the corner, or getting their allowance taken away.
I don't drink and drive because of fear of loosing my license and going to jail, not because I am a responsible adult.......because that is just too politically correct for me!
Out of interest David, how old is your daughter? Daughters are angels until they reach grade 8.

...one is 27, the other 33, and still angels (grin)!

do you see any difference between fear of punishment and discipline, and being afraid of being hurt and humiliated?

-dh

 

[david henman]

Take the word "fear" and replace it with "respect", and it is a little closer to what I think you are getting at...
We don't live in terror of going to jail (unless charges are pending) and neither does a child who knows certain actions can have consequences.
The argumentative question "Do you want your child to be afraid of you?" is tossed out a lot in this kind of debate, and it's a load of ****.

...i don't think so. i respected my folks. a lot. i still do. they were role models.

i was never afraid of them. i never experienced any fear that they would subject me to the pain and humiliation of being hit.

-dh

 

[The Kicker Of Elves]

...i don't think so. i respected my folks. a lot. i still do. they were role models.

i was never afraid of them. i never experienced any fear that they would subject me to the pain and humiliation of being hit.

-dh

Ok, I'd agree with "humiliation" if I was tossed over a knee and paddled in the middle of a crowd...

But a spanking doesn't scar a child for life...getting caned in Singapore is pain and humiliation.

If a spanking is a traumatic experience, life is going to steamroll over a kid when they grow up.

 

[david henman]

Insinuating or declaring that "good parenting skills" can't include phsical discipline is going to the extreme again.

...really? there are more and more parents who successfully raise their children without physical discipline.

simply because it is quite possible.

in fact, if you quizzed them, they would probably tell you that it really wasn't all that difficult.

what do you imagine you are accomplishing when you spank your children?

-dh

 

[david henman]

Ok, I'd agree with "humiliation" if I was tossed over a knee and paddled in the middle of a crowd...
But a spanking doesn't scar a child for life...getting caned in Singapore is pain and humiliation.
If a spanking is a traumatic experience, life is going to steamroll over a kid when they grow up.

...really? life is rough for all of us but, i don't know, i've survived pretty well without the benefit of spanking to prepare me for the all the struggles that life presents. i doubt that i'm the only one.

more to the point, however, i think you will that most of us consider spanking, or even the very thought of spanking, to be a humiliating experience, whether it is done in an empty room or at a busy mall.

-dh

 

[The Kicker Of Elves]

...really? there are more and more parents who successfully raise their children without physical discipline.

simply because it is quite possible.

in fact, if you quizzed them, they would probably tell you that it really wasn't all that difficult.

what do you imagine you are accomplishing when you spank your children?

-dh

And if they can raise their children to be unselfish, respectful adults great. Not every child (and not every parent) is the same, and some need more than a stern talking to and a timeout.

There are also lots of dog owners that train a puppy purely through rewards and wouldn't use a mild jerk of the leash to correct behavior.

Some children, and some dogs need a little more.

It doesn't have to be a beating that could win you a heavyweight fight...

 

[ne1roc]

...really? there are more and more parents who successfully raise their children without physical discipline.

simply because it is quite possible.

in fact, if you quizzed them, they would probably tell you that it really wasn't all that difficult.

what do you imagine you are accomplishing when you spank your children?

-dh

There are also many parents who succesfully raise their kids with physical discipline.

 

[david henman]

And if they can raise their children to be unselfish, respectful adults great. Not every child (and not every parent) is the same, and some need more than a stern talking to and a timeout.
There are also lots of dog owners that train a puppy purely through rewards and wouldn't use a mild jerk of the leash to correct behavior.
Some children, and some dogs need a little more.

...so you give them more.

is there a valid reason why it has to come in the form of hitting?

-dh

 

[ne1roc]

Physical discipline being the odd slap in th behind of course.

 

[david henman]

There are also many parents who succesfully raise their kids with physical discipline.

...undoubtedly. but does that negate the possibility that there may actually be a more effective, safer, saner and even more civilized way to do it?

-dh

 

[ne1roc]

...undoubtedly. but does that negate the possibility that there may actually be a more effective, safer, saner and even more civilized way to do it?

-dh

We have no facts of either being more effective. There is more then one way to do many things in life and end up with the same results. That is a fact!


OT: By the way, I love all the changes happening to this forum right in front of my eyes! Now I can see who's on topic! :rockon:

 

[The Kicker Of Elves]

more to the point, however, i think you will [agree?] that most of us consider spanking, or even the very thought of spanking, to be a humiliating experience, whether it is done in an empty room or at a busy mall.

-dh

Replace "humiliation" with a healthy dose of "ashamed" and I wouldn't argue.

I'll keep saying, there are degrees of severity for everything. I don't think all forms of physical discipline are abuse (and therefore wrong).

 

[The Kicker Of Elves]

...so you give them more.

is there a valid reason why it has to come in the form of hitting?

-dh

Spanking = valid for some people.

Be wary of falling into "my way is the only way."

 

[david henman]

Spanking = valid for some people.
Be wary of falling into "my way is the only way."

...yes, sir!

:tongue:

by the way, i don't think anyone here has actually attempted to explain why spanking is a good idea, much less a better idea than patience, communication and no-always-means-no discipline.

-dh

 

[david henman]

We have no facts of either being more effective. There is more then one way to do many things in life and end up with the same results. That is a fact!

...are you sure?

does anyone have access to studies and stats on spanking vs not spanking?

more to the point, if spanking is not more effective than not spanking, doesn't that actually beg the question?

-dh

 

[The Kicker Of Elves]

...yes, sir!

:tongue:

by the way, i don't think anyone here has actually attempted to explain why spanking is a good idea, much less a better idea than patience, communication and no-always-means-no discipline.

-dh

I think some of the posts attempted to.

Of course, every child is different, and every circumstance is different...no one is going to argue that a spanking is the end-all be-all of discipline for every offense.

A very willful child might need a smack here and there...and some children respond very well to withdrawl of priveleges and debate.

When a child is a little older discussing the issue and trying to make them see WHY throwing a ball around the house is not acceptable behavior can be effective. It's even MORE effective if they respect their parent(s) already. At some point many children start to challenge authority, and debating the issue with them usually results in someone getting called a "poopyhead".

...are you sure?

does anyone have access to studies and stats?

in any case, if spanking is not more effective than not spanking, doesn't that actually beg the question?

-dh

I see your call for stats and studies and counter with the same. Where are the true scientific studies done with double blinds and administered by a neutral party that claim not-spanking children is the best method of rearing them? Good luck!

"Wanted: young children to participate in a spanking study."

 

[Luke98]

I'm of the current generation and I did get spanked when i was younger... It didn't really do anything. Well. Kind of hard for me to have any imput here lol.