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Spanking...

4920 Views 71 Replies 22 Participants Last post by  Lester B. Flat, 
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...hard to believe that in 2007 there are some who still defend this barabaric substitute for good parenting skills. my theory is that the same parents who advocate spanking are the ones whose "no" actually means "try harder". the same parents who will subsequently complain "i can't do anything with him/her".

-dh
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GuitaristZ said:
I see soo many kids today which aren't spanked, and they are the worst behaved generation yet. Explain that.
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...explain what?

do you have any statistics to support your theory?

my parents never, ever laid a hand on me. i did receive a strapping at school. i don't remember what for, nor do i recall any lesson learned. i do, however, clearly remember both the pain and the humiliation.

i have little doubt that fear, pain and humiliation get the job done. if you want your children to fear you, and to experience pain and humiliation, spanking will definitely accomplish that. and its a hell of a lot easier than doing the right thing, which is learning to communicate with your children, as well as sticking to your word.

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
No offense, but you opened this "discussion" with a near-straw man ("barbaric substitute") and then state that spanking will only cause pain and humiliation...your viewpoint on this type of discipline is your opinion.
It discourages people with a different opinion from speaking up, as you have already declared the practice to be horrific and wrong.
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...yes, i understand that. it was not the best approach for me to take.

in own mind it set up a challenge: how do you defend the practise of striking a child?

the idea being to encourage people to closely examine the rationale behind spanking, beyond the obvious and commonly accepted perception that, yes, it does "get the job done".

-dh
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ne1roc said:
Oh yeah...another interesting topic to debate over!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a little open hand swat on the bum, when communication fails. Strike 3.......wack! If you don't put a touch of fear into your kids as young children, they sure won't fear you as a teenager.
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...which begs the question: is there a reason why your children should be afraid of you?

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
And people who believe that disciplining a child by an occasional spanking (which is not the same as backhanding a young person across the face) is an effective method of correcting behaviour would probably take issue with the idea that they had to "defend" anything.
Personally I think that how people raise their children is their own business (within limits of course.)
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...i agree. but this isn't about minding other people's business. its a philosophical discussion of the pros and cons of spanking.

perhaps "defend" is not the right word. "justify" might be more accurate.

i'm still convinced that spanking is a poor substitute for good parenting skills and the ability to communicate with and discipline a child.

one of the first things i discovered raising a daughter was how happy she was when she understood her boundaries. you could actually see a sense of liberation on her face once she knew where the lines were drawn, and now she was free to get on with the business of having fun rather than being subject to internal forces that push her to see how far she can go and how much she can get away with.

ultimately, don't you have to ask yourself how parents manage to raise their children successfully without resorting to hitting them?

-dh
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ne1roc said:
They should fear what you will do, be it spanking, standing in the corner, or getting their allowance taken away.
I don't drink and drive because of fear of loosing my license and going to jail, not because I am a responsible adult.......because that is just too politically correct for me!
Out of interest David, how old is your daughter? Daughters are angels until they reach grade 8.
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...one is 27, the other 33, and still angels (grin)!

do you see any difference between fear of punishment and discipline, and being afraid of being hurt and humiliated?

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
Take the word "fear" and replace it with "respect", and it is a little closer to what I think you are getting at...
We don't live in terror of going to jail (unless charges are pending) and neither does a child who knows certain actions can have consequences.
The argumentative question "Do you want your child to be afraid of you?" is tossed out a lot in this kind of debate, and it's a load of ****.
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...i don't think so. i respected my folks. a lot. i still do. they were role models.

i was never afraid of them. i never experienced any fear that they would subject me to the pain and humiliation of being hit.

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
Insinuating or declaring that "good parenting skills" can't include phsical discipline is going to the extreme again.
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...really? there are more and more parents who successfully raise their children without physical discipline.

simply because it is quite possible.

in fact, if you quizzed them, they would probably tell you that it really wasn't all that difficult.

what do you imagine you are accomplishing when you spank your children?

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
Ok, I'd agree with "humiliation" if I was tossed over a knee and paddled in the middle of a crowd...
But a spanking doesn't scar a child for life...getting caned in Singapore is pain and humiliation.
If a spanking is a traumatic experience, life is going to steamroll over a kid when they grow up.
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...really? life is rough for all of us but, i don't know, i've survived pretty well without the benefit of spanking to prepare me for the all the struggles that life presents. i doubt that i'm the only one.

more to the point, however, i think you will that most of us consider spanking, or even the very thought of spanking, to be a humiliating experience, whether it is done in an empty room or at a busy mall.

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
And if they can raise their children to be unselfish, respectful adults great. Not every child (and not every parent) is the same, and some need more than a stern talking to and a timeout.
There are also lots of dog owners that train a puppy purely through rewards and wouldn't use a mild jerk of the leash to correct behavior.
Some children, and some dogs need a little more.
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...so you give them more.

is there a valid reason why it has to come in the form of hitting?

-dh
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ne1roc said:
There are also many parents who succesfully raise their kids with physical discipline.
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...undoubtedly. but does that negate the possibility that there may actually be a more effective, safer, saner and even more civilized way to do it?

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
Spanking = valid for some people.
Be wary of falling into "my way is the only way."
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...yes, sir!

:tongue:

by the way, i don't think anyone here has actually attempted to explain why spanking is a good idea, much less a better idea than patience, communication and no-always-means-no discipline.

-dh
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ne1roc said:
We have no facts of either being more effective. There is more then one way to do many things in life and end up with the same results. That is a fact!
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...are you sure?

does anyone have access to studies and stats on spanking vs not spanking?

more to the point, if spanking is not more effective than not spanking, doesn't that actually beg the question?

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
I see your call for stats and studies and counter with the same. Where are the true scientific studies done with double blinds and administered by a neutral party that claim not-spanking children is the best method of rearing them? Good luck!
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...sorry, but i asked you first. for me its simply a case of visualizing a full grown adult striking a small child and thinking: how can this be a good thing?

-dh
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ne1roc said:
Sounds like a reply from someone who can't prove their pont of view?
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...well, perhaps i wasn't obvious enough. it IS my point of view. in other words, and opinion. based upon a personal belief.

so what, exactly, would you like me to prove? that this really is my opinion?

also, for the record, my challenge was not to you personally, but to anyone in general.

-dh
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ne1roc said:
I believe you were the one who started this topic, basically saying that parents who spank their children are barbarians and have poor parenting skills. If you are going to make an opinion like that, I believe you should have some facts ready to back up your opinion.
I have no facts for either side of the arguement and therefore accept both parenting styles. I believe they both work well!
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...fair enough, although i take exception to your paraphrasing of my original statement.

what i'm trying to find out is why people think that spanking a child is a good idea, much less a better idea than good communication.

-dh
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nine said:
Also, you're being kind of hypocritical, because you dismissed ne1roc's request for you to provide some facts supporting your opinion, yet on the first page you asked GuitaristZ for proof of his theory about unruly kids.
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...your charge of hypocrisy is misguided.

it is my opinion that striking a child is cruel, and serves no purpose other than to cause pain and humiliation. it is not a statement of fact which, i agree, would have to be supported in order to have any integrity.

guitaristz made a claim ("I see soo many kids today which aren't spanked, and they are the worst behaved generation yet.").

i was curious to find out how he would know if they have been spanked or not, not to mention if he can support his claim that "they are the worst behaved generation yet".

-dh
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nine said:
What makes you think you're so right, David Henman? Usually you're pretty balanced on issues, but on this one you're really up there on a high horse, looking down on the "barbarians". And sure, we can split hairs on the paraphrasing of your original post, but I think it's pretty clear to everyone that if you describe corporal punishment as "barbaric", it's obviously barbarians that would deal out the punishment. I don't think that conclusion is a stretch by any means.
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...perhaps, but it is still your conclusion, not mine.

we can go around and around on this all day, but i am still curious to know why people think that striking a child is a good idea, much less a better idea than seeking a clear understanding between parent and child through verbal communication.

-dh
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The Kicker Of Elves said:
Hoo boy, let me add "Spanking" to the list of "Debates to Avoid on the Internet" along with Politics, Religion and Abortion.
We all could go back and forth on this for 50 pages and not settle it. The raising of children is a very personal thing, and two sides are NOT going to see common ground on it.
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...don't forget guns!

i've never seen one of these debates get "settled". its a learning process, hopefully.

-dh
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Wild Bill said:
I also find it curious that many advocates against spanking talk as if spanking were synonymous with abuse! I just can't accept that reasoning. Abuse is merely a cruel and violent act. A spanking is a conscious choice as a means to correct a child's behaviour. If one can't see the difference then I don't believe that one could think deeply enough to judge another parent.
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...while perhaps not quite "synonymous with abuse", spanking is, ultimately, the act of a grown adult "striking" a small child. there is no getting away from that.

it would be inappropriate and misguided to classify every episode of spanking as a form of abuse.

on the other hand, it would be foolish to think that every episode is conducted out of love and compassion rather than anger, frustration, getting even, vindictiveness, jealousy or even outright intent to harm.

-dh
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