[Beatles]

Have to feel sorry for some of the owners of bars. Ya I know some of them are real slime bags, but thats not the point. Ever since the smoke legisalation has been in place the bars are more empty than ever. In fact, a lot of them have lost so much business that they have had to shut their doors. The bars who are trying to make a go of it have had to spend $$ to build smoking areas, or outside facilities to have smokers enjoy their habits. Now, come May, even the bars who have constructed designated smoking areas will no longer be able to use them. Go talk to a bar owner and try to get your band booked. You get the same response every time. No bands...can't afford it.....people aren't comming out anymore...it's because of the non smoking legisaltion. Puts a real dent in the live club scene. Sucks.

 

[GuitarsCanada]

It's clearly become an issue for bar owners. I am a smoker myself and have no issue at all with restaurants, offices, theatres, etc being smoke free. I remember back to the days when you would have 4-5 people smoking in a small office. It was terrible. I have two teens that so far have not touched them and I hope they never do, it's a hideous addiction. But for these bar owners it's a tough situation. I think it's really unfair that a lot of them went out and spent a lot of cash trying to make everyone happy and now the rules are going to get changed on them again. Clearly, there are still a lot of smokers that frequent bars, or used to. I assume in the years to come the smoking population will continue to decrease. Not sure what the stats are on that right now.

 

[Jeff Flowerday]

I enjoy the smoke free environment. Feel much better in the morning. This coming from an ex-smoker.

It's amazing how the club scene and smoking are related. I know I had to quit going out for some period of time while quitting. Alcohol really lowers a guys will power.

 

[Accept2]

Im glad the places are smoke free, becuase I dont want to breathe it, and I dont like smelling like smoke. I used to have to leave guitar cases outside because of the stink. If no one goes to a bar, then the bar needs to assess how they can get people back in...................

 

[Milkman]

Well, I'm a non-smoker and although I along with most non-smokers hate the stink, I have seen a decline in the number of bars remaining open and in the attendance at the surviving bars.

I still play in a couple of clubs where smoking is allowed for the time being and they're packed. It would be sad if the gigs sytarted to dry up, but it's the way the world is going.


At some point perhaps the number of smokers in our society will be so small as to have little impact on such things, but I have seen quite a few clubs go belly up in my community and they attribute it to the city banning smoking.


The kicker is that they still allow service clubs such as Legions and Army/Navy clubs to permit smoking. That will soon change as well.

Lets hope there will still be some gigs.

 

[Accept2]

I think blamming it on smoking laws is pushing it. The places that do well are the places that people enjoy going to. Alot of these places are dives, and some people dont enjoy going there. If I ever get around to opening a Playboy club, I dont think I'd ever have a problem filling it, smoking or not...........

 

[Beatles]

I think blamming it on smoking laws is pushing it. T

Think so? Check out this link and you may reconsider your view. http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=smoking+closes+bars+toronto&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D724b4079c00a104e%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3Dsmoking%2Bcloses%2Bbars%2Btoronto%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.smokersclubinc.com%252Fbanloss3.htm%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPToolbarNS%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smokersclubinc.com%2Fbanloss3.htm
There is a distinct difference between a Playboy club and a bar. Sex sells. Always has.

 

[GuitarsCanada]

Very compelling evidence here. There is no question that it has affected the patron count. Smoking and booze have always gone together like a horse and carriage. But as has been pointed out above, there will be a shift in that once this new generation of non smokers becomes of age. Can the existing bars hang on until then?

 

[Accept2]

The business is harsh to begin with. Alot of these places become flavours of the week and then disappear when someone new shows up in the market. The evidence isnt clear because its not scientifically driven. Its just assumed that these places closed because of non-smoking laws, and ignores all other factors...........

 

[keefsdad]

I've actually had more gigs since they passed the legislation. It will no doubt have an effect, but people have a right not to be poisoned in their workplace.
I am a smoker but I think it's sensible and inevitable.

 

[GuitarsCanada]

I agree, if you are still smoking, then it's outside for you bro... like I said, I still smoke (hope to quit) but I see nothing wrong with no smoking bans in all public houses, buildings etc. For someone that does not smoke it is not nice at all. To tell the truth, I don't think I could even eat in a restaurant anymore that had smoking, it bugs the hell out of me when I am trying to eat.

 

[Beatles]

The business is harsh to begin with.

This I agree with

The evidence isnt clear because its not scientifically driven. Its just assumed that these places closed because of non-smoking laws, and ignores all other factors...........

Evidence isn't clear???? Read on my friend:

Media Advisory - McGuinty Government Smoking Ban (Bill 164) Will Result in Job and Business Loss in Ontario's Largest Employment Sector


Government Data Shows Smoking Bans Devastate Bar Industry Reports Leading Economist

TORONTO, April 19 /CNW/ - Confirming the worst fears of Canada's
hospitality industry The Fair Air Association of Canada (FAAC) and The Pub and
Bar Coalition of Canada (PUBCO) released the most comprehensive economic
analysis yet done on the impact of complete smoking bans on bars and pubs.
The economic impact study offers definitive proof that smoking bans, like
the McGuinty government Bill 164, will lead to widespread devastation
throughout one of Canada's largest employment sectors - the hospitality
industry - in communities across the Province.
The study shows smoking bans in several Ontario cities have had a real
and dramatic impact on revenue. Bar and pub sales were reduced: 23.5% in
Ottawa, 18.7% in London, 24.3% in Kingston and 20.4% in Kitchener. Prof. Evans concluded, "Government data clearly demonstrates smoking bans
materially reduce sales in bars and nightclubs. The evidence is quite clear.
To suggest that smoking bans don't have a dramatic negative impact on bar
sales would be an opinion - not fact."

Scientifically driven? This has nothing to do with science. Its called economics. If you can't put bums in seats, you can't stay in business. I am not taking any sides here. I am not here to discuss the damage smoking does nor the health effects. I am simply stating the cause/effect of the legislation.

 

[walden]

The government is only screwing themselves in the end in a way... think of all the money the lottery and gaming commissions will lose, it's astounding. I guess they think it balances out because there will be less health costs. I don't think so, i think smoker will still need as much health care regardless. Personally I'm a smoker, and I agree with the ban in some public places, but i think they should at least have smoking sections at least in bars or restaurants.

 

[GuitarsCanada]

What kills me is all concert halls, arena's etc are no smoking, yet you will get a healthy shot of sweet leaf everytime. So if some slob tried to light up a smoke in there he would most likely be beaten to a pulp by the non-smokers and than thrown out of the building. Funny how that works eh?

 

[Milkman]

The business is harsh to begin with. Alot of these places become flavours of the week and then disappear when someone new shows up in the market. The evidence isnt clear because its not scientifically driven. Its just assumed that these places closed because of non-smoking laws, and ignores all other factors...........

Granted it's not scientific, but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the trend.

When a bar has been thriving or at least surviving for decades and goes belly up a few months after a no-smoking law is passed.....


This has been the case in Brantford. There's a bar in Simcoe that I've been playing at since the 80s. I'm still playing there every six weeks or so. It's one of the last places I play that still allows smoking (until April 1). It has always been full both Friday and Saturday nights when we play there and there are a LOT of smokers.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong on this believe me, but I 'm nervous about it.

 

[Milkman]

As a non-smoker, I personally go out to bars and restaurants more since the smoking ban came into effect. The same can be said for about 95% of my friends and family. As the demographic shifts and smokers start to die out (literally), I think it'll be for the best in the long run.

I hope you're right, but so far I'm not seeing evidence of those who pushed so hard to outlaw smoking in bars showing up and putting their money where their mouths are.


Look, I hate the way my clothes stink the morning after playing in a smoking bar, but I want to play. I think there will be a lot of bodies on the floor as a result of this movement.

 

[GuitarsCanada]

Well said Milkman... and he always rings twice ! Or is that the postman?

 

[Accept2]

Granted it's not scientific, but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the trend.

But its not the only trend going on, and thats what Im getting at. Other trends that are affecting bar attendance include: Aging of the population; impact of immigrants on the population; Increase in bankrupcy in Canada (both personal and corporate); Increase of home electronics like PCs and home theatres; Increase in Sports teams in cities; Health trends that people no longer drink beer or smoke; Social trends (many here) to name a few. How many people come home from work, and decide that they plan on using their free time to go smoke at a bar? If there is a great show to go to, they will be there. If not, there are far better things to do with their time than hang out in a bar and smoke. We also have to think of the fact that smokers themselves are becomming a smaller and smaller minority in the population. As they die out or quit, their impact on the market place will also become irrelevant............

 

[GuitarsCanada]

Maybe it's different where you live. I don't see the trend here in Edmonton. Smoking was banned in restaurants a year and a half ago. A bunch of restaurant owners cried that they would go out of business. As far as I know, bankruptcies and foreclosures in the restaurant business don't seem to be any higher now than 2 or 3 years ago. Most of the loudest pro-smoking restaurant owners who were sure they would be out of business in 2 months appear to still be operating. I haven't noticed any decline in perceived restaurant crowds.

Smoking in bars was banned on July 1st of last year. I haven't noticed any appreciable drop in the number of people out on any given night. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that more bars have opened than closed since the ban went into effect.

Maybe we just don't smoke as much in Alberta or something.

I know one thing, you never see people standing outside a restaurant having a smoke at 20 degrees below zero, but you will see a gaggle of them outside the watering holes. Freezing their arses off to have a smoke. I myself do not have a problem with going into a restaurant and spending two hours without a smoke, does not bother me. But I know if I was in a bar (which I rarely go to) I would be wanting to light up. It must be the whole atmosphere thing. Like being on a 4 hour flight, does not bother me.

 

[imbackagain2]

I actually quit smokin a few weeks ago. 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours 12 minutes ago to be exact. hahaha. I think people should be able to smoke wherever they want. IF not in the bar they should definatly have a smoking section. This is discrimination towards smokers because they smoke. The definition of discrimination is the denial of equal treatment to a specific group. So why can't we charge *******s for hate crimes?