[david henman]

...the two things almost all canadians have in common are stories of encounters with Timmys and Ma Bell, two of the most incompetent institutions in the history of mankind. i have never met anyone in this country who didn't have several ordeals to share, involving both of these companies.

with ma bell, i honestly wouldn't know where to start, but probably the best example is moving. you dutifully call them about a month or so before you move to give them the necessary details, ESPECIALLY the date when you want your current phone line disconnected and the new one hooked up.

guess what? within hours, if not minutes, your current phone line is disconnected. so, you call them on another phone (cell, office, neighbour), sit on hold for an hour, only to be told that THEIR mistake has somehow become YOUR problem, and here's what YOU have to do to get it resolved.

i don't know anyone who has moved who has NOT encountered this little dilemma.

i have several other ma bell stories, almost all involving relatively simple problems that ma bell's customer service people were able to turn into major ordeals that persisted for weeks and months.

the next time i move, which will happen in a few months, i intend to do eveything in my power to use an alternate home phone service provider.

now we come to timmy's. oh, how i savour the way their eyes glaze over at the simplest request. "could i have a small, regular coffee?" that look of utter confusion. you can hear them thinking "hmmmm...does tim horton's sell coffee?"

i have a timmy's next door to my studio. the girl's were there for a coffee run and, after they placed their order at the inside counter, the little old lady behind them placed hers. after she had done so, the confused and perhaps over-worked employee looked her straught in the eye and said "thank you, please proceed to the next window."

seriously, and i am speaking from long, hard experience, whatever you order at timmy's, make sure they got it right. even if you were watching when they poured your coffee and packaged your muffin, always ask: "what did i order? good, now, are you sure that is what you have given me? could you please double-check?"

okay, your turn!

-dh

 

[Hamm Guitars]

I went home to Dartmouth N.S. a couple of years back and my brother sent me on a mission to Timmy's. He told me to get us a coffee and a 15 pack of timbits.

A returned two hours later with no doughnuts or coffee for him: it seems that there were some employees that were suspected of selling weed through the drive through window and they were using the non-existent "15 pack of timbits" as their code word. The manager of the branch asked me to come inside and talk to her about something, and since I was clueless about what was going on I got out of my car and went inside where I recieved what was probably the biggest balaking of my life. In the end, the fact that I had out of town plates and a car full of gas reciepts from the previous day that proved I had just gotten into town saved me a trip downtown to do some 'splainin.

My brother, being the kind of guy that he is, knew all about this and had a little chuckle at my expense. I never did get him back for that one.

 

[Lester B. Flat]

I'll keep my rant short.

Bell. They are a secretive group of ethically challenged phone lords surrounded by an army of call centre gnomes skilled in the art of subterfuge and psycholgical terrorism whose primary function is to separate you and your money and above all, to protect the CEO at all costs.

Timmy's. They are not paying attention.

 

[Rumble_b]

Timmy's is hit and miss. I like to keep life interesting so I keep going back.

Bell= The devil.
Bell Mobility= Something that the Devil is afraid of.

Very long story short. I was having problems with my bills with them saying I owed about $120. This is after them admitting they were having billing problems and I was getting 3 months worth of bills at once. I asked for proof that I owed and they said they would sent me a detailed report of charges and payments for the last year. Fine, it came and I lost it. The report said that I owed Bell somewhere around $1600. I called and they confirmed that. I got a supervisor on the phone and asked them to look at it. She said the amount was right. So, I told her to................. well you get the idea. I'm now with Rogers.


The best part is, a few months after I dumped Bell and never paid. They sent me a check for $7.00 for over paying on a bill.

 

[BHarris]

i don't know anyone who has moved who has NOT encountered this little dilemma.



okay, your turn!

-dh

never had a problem moving,, done it three times,,
last move,, moved miles from where my family was,, new house,,
gave them closing date, they were there on that date,, phone was working with new # before the lawyers work was all done..

but that is an exception to the rule.. I'm sure

 

[Accept2]

Never go to Tim Hortons. Krispy Kreme blows them away. As for Bell, is it really reasonable to have to pay for all those services? $7 for their answer service, $5 for their first rate. What the **** is a network charge? A charge for 911. A charge for touch tone service. These should all be included. When you go buy a car do they charge you extra if you want an engine in the car? How about windows? You better go for that hood option, thats a sweet option. Im begining to think that maybe I dont need a home phone. After all I only get called by telemarketers. But wait, Bell now has a service to rid you of them. Its only another $10 a month. As for Rogers, they can shove it too..............

 

[MaxWedge]

SaskTel not one complaint. Great service. Phone, T.V., Internet, about $120 per month.
Local Tims not one complaint. Always got what I ordered.

 

[rippinglickfest]

Tiny Tims

Here in Sudbury at one of the many Tims in the area, I actually got back more money than I gave one time/ drive through for a couple of large DD's.............but they are busy.
Bell= at least they havent cut off my services for constantly being behind,
I dont get that free calls after 6PM and on weekends...........my long distance charges are still high even though the calls read no charges on the bill??

 

[Chito]

For Timmy, I don't know what the heck they put in their coffee but day in and day out, every morning, there would be lineups every Timmy drive-thru I pass by on the way to work. I actually got caught up with it at some point. Even if I'm late for work, I still lined up and got my coffee. Good thing I got rehabbed and don't do timmy's anymore.

As for MaBell, 2 years ago, me and my partner decided it was time to part ways with MaBell. Didn't think a landline was needed in the house so we gave up on it. From what I've been hearing, MaBell's service has even gone worse. It's not unusual to hear people either losing their phone connection or internet connection for days when they move. Good thing we don't deal with them anymore.

 

[Hagar]

Never go to Tim Hortons. Krispy Kreme blows them away. As for Bell, is it really reasonable to have to pay for all those services? $7 for their answer service, $5 for their first rate. What the **** is a network charge? A charge for 911. A charge for touch tone service. These should all be included. When you go buy a car do they charge you extra if you want an engine in the car? How about windows? You better go for that hood option, thats a sweet option. Im begining to think that maybe I dont need a home phone. After all I only get called by telemarketers. But wait, Bell now has a service to rid you of them. Its only another $10 a month. As for Rogers, they can shove it too..............

Disclaimer....I work for MTS in Winnipeg.

Why do people always assume it is their right to get stuff for nothing? If the users don't pay for the services they want, then who does?

Everyone pays for 911 service. If it wasn't paid for it wouldn't be available. 911 is not run by the telco's. It is an independant company, run by the emergency services. Telco's collect their fee, it does not go into our bottom line. So if you don't want 911 talk to the police, fire and ambulance service in your area.

It costs big money to provide telecommunications services and it's provided by companies in business to make a return on their investment. And the return on investment in the telecommunications business isn't huge.

Another thing to consider is that paying these fee's is used to average the cost of service across a broad geographic area. As an example if you were to to provide telecommunications services at cost to the residents of Manitoba (I'll use this because I'm familiar with the geography), the cost to a person living in Winnipeg would be next to nothing...a large population sharing the same hardware and resources. However, what do you think it would cost to provide service to a location somewhat more remote? I will tell you that once you get 30 or so miles outside a major center no one would be able to afford just what it would cost to provide that service, let alone any profit. Once you get really remote like up north, forget it.

 

[searchin4signal]

I walked into Timmy's during my lunch break....the line was moving along pretty good....until we got to the lady just ahead of ME.
She wanted a medium double double....no big deal....Then I realized I might be in trouble when she couldn't decide on her flavor shot...."Butter Caramel ! No NO....Hazelnut !! No NO WAIT !! CINNAMON ROLL !!!!"
I almost went "PHEW!!!" but I was not meant to be with my coffee just yet.....She decided on a box of donuts....then it was like the fate of the world rested on each and every choice of donut to fill her box.
"I think I'll have a Bismarck...no no....maybe a carmel dip...no ! Wait ! One Honey glazed and.....maaayyyyyyybbbeeeeee......... "
It got to where I was experimenting with mental telepathy...y'know...hoping to speed along her choices or just make her head explode....when she was finally done (After 15-20 minutes) I suggested she consult her Chinese Astrologer next time to ensure her donut Zen would be achieved....she didn't laugh...but everyone else did.

I'm Italian....and when I was living at home....I sometimes wasn't home....and my mom would take messages for me.....it would go like this....
"ALLO ?"
"Hi Mrs. M....is Pete there ?"
"Who?"
"Pete....is Pete home?"
"No...she no home ! Whooza dis ?"
"It's Joey."
"Joey Who ?
"Joey F. from next door. You know...we've been neighbours for 15 years."
"I donna know no Joey Nexxa-Door"
and then she'd hang up.

One day we got Caller ID....and I came home and said "Hi Ma...any messages?"
She said " Ya....Bill phoned"
"Bill ?"
"Ya...Billa phone"
I thought to myself....Bill ? I don't know any Bill that would phone me....So I asked... "Bill Who?"
She said...."Bill Buffone"
I said "Bill Buffone ??? I don't know any Bill Buffone"
She said "I checka da Calla ID myself. I tella you Bill Buffone call."
So I checked the new Caller ID....and sure enough I did get a call...


......from "Bell Payphone."

 

[Accept2]

Why do people always assume it is their right to get stuff for nothing? If the users don't pay for the services they want, then who does?

Nobody is asking for something for nothing. People just want service. In Canada the banks, phone, hydro and cable/satellite tv industries are making money hand over fist because they charge fees just to charge fees. They can do it because government regulation keeps them operating as an oligopoly. The 911 charge is a good example of that. You say the phone company has to pay as well. When you go buy a burger does your receipt include a charge for the electricity used to cook the burger, a charge for the lights that had to be on, a charge for the alarm monitoring, a charge for the meat inspection, etc, etc. If it was a Bell burger, it sure would be like that. If the phone industry was open to real competition, as well as the other industries noted above, we would get a far different service and those companies would be run far differently than how they are run now............

 

[Wild Bill]

Nobody is asking for something for nothing. People just want service. In Canada the banks, phone, hydro and cable/satellite tv industries are making money hand over fist because they charge fees just to charge fees. They can do it because government regulation keeps them operating as an oligopoly. The 911 charge is a good example of that. You say the phone company has to pay as well. When you go buy a burger does your receipt include a charge for the electricity used to cook the burger, a charge for the lights that had to be on, a charge for the alarm monitoring, a charge for the meat inspection, etc, etc. If it was a Bell burger, it sure would be like that. If the phone industry was open to real competition, as well as the other industries noted above, we would get a far different service and those companies would be run far differently than how they are run now............

One thing the years bring is perspective! A citizen with a memory can scare hell outta politicians and decadent businesses.

This trend of nickel and diming the consumer seemed to start in the early 80's and really ramped up during the 90's. Something else happened at the same time and I believe there's a solid connection.

I blame accountants! (and MBA's)

We had a bad recession when this all started and many businesses panicked as they faced going out of business. At the same MBA programs had just started and businesses had been flooded with young guys in expensive clothes that were long on book-learning and totally devoid of any sense of the details that made one business unique from another. Their textbooks all seemed to have used the automotive industry as examples so they seemed to believe any business they were running should be run like General Motors, whether it was a tool and die shop or a fish market.

Naturally this accelerated the slides into bankruptcy and because they had all been taught that handling the money was the most important aspect of any business another trend started that had never been strong before: companies were giving the reins to those who came up from accounting instead of sales or production!

If you lived through those years you might have noticed this change. Before those times it seemed that companies were run by guys who had worked their way up the ladder from the front lines of dealing with the customer's needs. They intuitively understood that if the customer wasn't happy there would be no money for the accountants to count! Experience was everything and while education was considered an asset it was always understood that it could only take a few years off the number needed to acquire experience in the operatio of a specific firm. It could never be a total substitute.

Mr. Accept2 is quite right about oligopolies. Many private companies did go under during those years but banks, utilities and the like are protected from market forces in this country. So while MBA's and accountants were getting a bad rep in the marketplace they were being enthusiastically accepted in the aforementioned areas.

These types of companies no longer had to care about pleasing the customer. Why? They had little or nothing to fear from competition! If a music store tried to hit you with a raft of user fees and service charges you'd laugh in their face and move on down the street! At "Noble Bank of Canada" the company prez, who would be both and MBA AND an accountant could bring up such ideas and be respected as a whiz! No one would ever think that this could tick customers off and if someone did mention it he would be dismissed as an idiot. After all, where else would the customer go?

Pencil pushers. They always know exactly how many nickels are in the company's account. They just don't seem to know how to get NEW nickels to flow into the account...

 

[Accept2]

Wild Bill, I am an accountant. Not an MBA though. Accountants come in different breeds. I am of the breed that questions why you would cut costs in the the R&D department, and lay off skilled workers to save the nickel, when there are plenty of fat middle managers with MBAs to lay off............

 

[Wild Bill]

"Present company excluded...of course!"

Wild Bill, I am an accountant. Not an MBA though. Accountants come in different breeds. I am of the breed that questions why you would cut costs in the the R&D department, and lay off skilled workers to save the nickel, when there are plenty of fat middle managers with MBAs to lay off............

Glad to hear there's at least ONE sensible accountant! :wave:

Seriously, despite my hyperbole I'm well aware that there are aways different flavours of people under any generalized label. Still, if you've been around a while I'm sure you've met many examples that support my point and at times probably you've felt a bit lonely...:food-smiley-015:

Yeah, I used to sell to electronic mfgrs that cut R&D and then a few years later were crying that they had no new products to market!

I worked for one distributor that had made the mistake of financing their inventory as a debenture from a bank. The company was growing like a weed but they were shocked to discover that the bank considered this to be a BAD thing! With such a strong sustained growth in sales (this was the start of the hyperbolic high tech curve) sales were outstripping receivables in a big way.

So the bank imposed on us an "inventory" freeze. The way this worked was that we could not order anything for stock. We could order for customer orders and that was it. The idea was that this would deplete the current inventory down to an acceptable level.

Of course, it did nothing of the sort. Since we were a distributor and not a manufacturer this meant that in no time our shelves were stripped of what we called "A" items, those being the day to day common needs. Soon all we had on the shelf were less common "oddball" items. Worse yet, when customers write you off for their bread and butter needs they forget to call you even for those "oddballs"!

It nearly put us under. Only a few years later we had acquired a bunch of those new MBAs I had described. They took the company public and 4 years after that the company WAS bankrupt!

It got so that many of us in that industry would carefully check out a company's management structure before we'd ever send them a resume. It was easy to spot the ones run by accountants. They would require so many feedback customer reports written and meetings to attend that one had little or no time left to actually make a sales call!

That industry here in Canada has totally crashed and burned. Thousands of us lost our jobs and after 6 years there has been little recovery but this only reinforces your original point:

Those businesses like banks and utilities in an oligopoly have not only survived but thrived under protection, while their customer service has become abysmal!

Like with not all accountants being silly folks I should admit to the odd private company that has gotten away for years with bad customer service, despite having strong competition. Last week I caught a news media story about how Ford Motors was in terrible trouble and fearing the worst. That very evening I caught one of those "help the little guy" consumer protection shows. They featured 3 cases of customers getting the runaround after being shafted. Two companies made good but one blew the customer off, despite having a tv crew in their lobby. That company? Ford, of course. Go figure...

Perhaps we shouldn't include Ford. They are such a huge old company that like a giant dinosaur that received a mortal wound they can take a LONG time to die!

 

[Xanadu]

I have many friends who work at Timmy's. They give me free stuff...

Bell's screwed me over with my cell phone more than once.
I got a phone, it broke because of "water damage". POS. So I bring it back for waranty, they send it back to the manafacturer. I call them 2 weeks later wondering whats going on...and they lost it... So I'm like, give me a new phone then. After talking to them for hours, in store and on the phone, they gave me a new one but they tried to make me pay 75$ to transfer my account to a new phone.

I'm with Rogers now.