[Budda]

Ok, im sure you guys are familiar with the term "GAS" by now! .

my good friend mesa boogie is knocking on my door. i havent tried one, but i know what a dual rec can do and i really want one. like, trade the JSX for one/sell the JSX for one..only...that's not really an option (the stack was a gift from a friend, that's kinda inconsiderate - no?).

so i was thinking...well, what about saving for a dual recto? or a 5150, as they are also brutal beasts.

and then i got to thinking "hell, be *cheap* - retube the whole JSX and see if you like it more!". im not sure. i also kind of want a cab upgrade. dont get me wrong, the JSX definitely has some great tones for the styles of music that I play, only...i dont want to have the whole "satch vibe" to the tone (which is why im eying up a dual rec trade or something).

mind you, i need to play a 5150/dual rec with my les paul and see how it sounds. must. make. trip. to. steves! anyway, what would you guys do? stupid 412 cab GAS as well... *grumbles something about school being a stupid expense*

 

[GuitaristZ]

Try a laney?

 

[Lemmy Hangslong]

Try a Koch...
Try a Randall MTS...
Buy a Soldano...

 

[noobcake]

Is it currently tubed with 6l6s or EL34s? I hear that the high gain really tightens up with 6l6s and if you're on EL34s at the moment, I'm sure that switching over to 6l6s will get you closer to the heaviness and chunk of say a 5150 or a recto. It might not get rid of that "satch vibe" you're talking about though. The JSX is known for a somewhat nasally midrange, but good EQing and 6l6s might just be what you're looking for.

By the way, you're deathcharge from guitarists.net right?

 

[Guest]

+1 to Koch. Waaaay more flexible. There's a Multitone 50W head on Toronto's Craigslist right now for the ridiculously low price of $1400something. I'm tempted to go after it just on principle...

 

[Budda]

i've put 6L6's in it, it didnt do it for me.

im wondering how much a tubescreamer/OD out front will help..thoughts on that one?

 

[ENDITOL]

Cabs and speakers make a HUGE difference to translating an amp's character.

Boosting is a good way to tweak the tone as well, I disliked trying to play tight heavy rhythms when I had a dual rec until I boosted it (OD-808).

 

[Lemmy Hangslong]

For me a pedal does not define the amp. An amp has to stand on it's own merits. Then if a pedal adds a little spice to an allready great flavour you've got tone.
I agree the speaker cab is a huge factor in the tone of an amp. The cab is often overlooked or given second place to the head but in reality they are equal partners in tone.

If 6L6's did not do it for you then you may need to seek out a cab that may put things in the right direction. Subtle bias tweeks can make a huge difference aswell. Peavy tends to bias their amps a little cold whereas a lot of players likea slightly hot bias setting.

What is missing from the JSX tone? Or is it simply a matter of it being really great at sounding like Joe.

Dual Recs are cool but EngL is so much more. 5150's are cool too but the 6505 is a let down for me. The other thing is you could just save up and get the real deal... what the 5150 is based on... a Soldano SLO 100.
The Randall MTS line is very cool in that you have about 20 all tube tonal options... that sound killer.
Koch is also a great option if you like the Dual Rec tone with way more flexability which is more refined with better clarity and note definition.

Khing

 

[noobcake]

Isn't the 6505 essentially the exact same thing as the 5150, just with a different name?

 

[Wild Bill]

"Exactly the same, only different!"

F

Dual Recs are cool but EngL is so much more. 5150's are cool too but the 6505 is a let down for me. The other thing is you could just save up and get the real deal... what the 5150 is based on... a Soldano SLO 100.

Khing

Actually, 5150's and SLO100's seem quite different circuits to me. The Peavey has more 12AX7's, taking less gain in each stage and cascading up in more stages. The other and more usual approach is fewer 12AX7's with each stage flogged to the max. Fewer tubes of course is cheaper to make. The Peavey stye seems to me to give a thicker and creamier distortion.

It's interesting that the crunch channel for a 'Booger looks like a dead ringer for a SLO100! Since I maintain that you can't get a decent clean tone from a Booger to save your soul if I get a customer who only cares about crunch I advise him to put his money into the SLO.

Then again, it's mostly personal taste.
:food-smiley-004::rockon2:

 

[Michelle]

And what exactly does it mean; "dual rectifier"? Two diode bridges, lotsa caps, or two tube-type rectifiers? Or a rectifier for the heaters? And why does it all matter? Is this something that you might do to an amp with a single rectifier?
Just wonderin'
Michelle :wave:

 

[violation]

http://songbirdmusic.com/product_details.asp?id=22578

5150 II for a reasonable price... Dual Rec's go for about $1500 used don't they? I personally prefer the 5150 / 6505 to the Dual Rec... even a Genz Benz El Diablo, lol.

 

[Adicted to Tubes]

Dual rectifriers are not good examples of what an amp should sound like.I'd rather have a Soldano anyday.The problem is when you get into the really high gain arena all guitars sound the same and few amps let the character of the guitar shine through.With a recto a strat sounds like a les paul and that's just synthetic sounds,not true sound reproduction.
I prefer a hotrodded JCM800 to all of the above,.

 

[Wild Bill]

And what exactly does it mean; "dual rectifier"? Two diode bridges, lotsa caps, or two tube-type rectifiers? Or a rectifier for the heaters? And why does it all matter? Is this something that you might do to an amp with a single rectifier?
Just wonderin'
Michelle :wave:

In a 'Booger it means two 5U4 tube rectifiers, Michelle. There's only one solid state bridge and you have a switch to toggle from power diodes to tube rectification.

It's all about "sag". In the Golden Years of amps power diodes had either not yet been invented or were too new and expensive. Tube rectifiers ruled. The interesting thing about them is that they have a voltage drop across them ranging from maybe 20 volts for a 5AR4/GZ34 to 40-50 volts or more for a 5U4.

This drop also varied, increasing as you demanded more power from the power supply. What all this means is that with tube rectifiers as you crank the amp and hit louder notes the B+ voltage to the output tubes will sag down a bit. This tends to give a bit of compression - the power spike is rounded off as the voltage on the tube drops.

This gives that wonderful bluesy thickness to the sound of a vintage amp.

When power diodes were around long enough to get cheap manufacturers all switched over very quickly. Power diodes have mice nuts of a voltage drop, typically 1.2-1.4 volts! This means no sag at all. It tightens up the response of the amp, especially in the low end.

With a DR one 5U4 has a tough enough rating to run the output tubes but by using two of them (they strap the plates together and run each tube as a single diode) 'Booger would get twice the voltage drop and hence twice the sag. They also spec'd Russian 5U4's in those old-fashioned Coke bottle glass envelopes. They look great!

One of the classic bonehead mods techs see all the time is the use of "Solid State Tube Rectifier Replacements! You'll Never Have to Buy another Rectifier!" These came out in the 60's as a retrofit item. You could pull the dead tube rectifier and just plug one of these into the socket. They were fine for most radios and tvs but they can literally blow up a tube amp! With no voltage drop the voltages rise up to maybe 40-50 volts higher than design. Often there's not enough headroom on the ratings of the filters and stuff, not to mention the tubes running hotter. Most guitar amps had already pushed the envelope with voltages. Changing to a solid state rectifier was really asking for it!

That's why Ted Weber's "Copper Caps" cost a bit more. They are more than just diodes in a tube casing. They also take care of the voltage drop. They're the only solid state replacement I'd ever use.

Hope this makes things clear...


:food-smiley-004:

 

[Michelle]

Absolutely! Thanks Bill, totally understand the concept now. I'm going to take all your tech posts and put them in a doc BTW, great reference!
A 'dual rectifier' around here, (work), is two -48Vor +24V modules in a shelf mounted on a rack. I love the hum of power eqpt., used to spec power-plants.

 

[Budda]

i really want to try a mesa cab. i saw a band, both guys had JSX's, one guy into some cab i dont remember *sigh* and then buddy running an LP studio (i own one!) into a jsx (i own one of htose too!) into a mesa 412... dont got a mesa 412 lol. but i would REALLY like to try one.

do you guys think that 6L6's would take away, or add to "the vibe" (lol) of the amp?

if you guys check out my latest recordings (www.soundclick.com/thebuddaproject - music - sevenstring.org stuff is a good bet i think) you hear something in the tone that is just the satch vibe, as i call it. now i THINK that using the "low" input on the head (mine's a mk 1) helps take that away, but ideally it would be gone completely. i like my tone.. its mainly that whenever I record, i get that little extra "satch vibe" that i dont want in there.

i want to record in an actual good studio, with my cab mic'd and everything, and see how it sounds. for home use, it's a beast

 

[Jims]

By the way, you're deathcharge from guitarists.net right?

Yes, he (budda) is. Any name us fellow g-nutters might recognize?

Justin, if you're ditching a peavey cab, let me know the asking price! (then convince me that I have room for it somewhere!):food-smiley-004:

 

[Budda]

Yes, he (budda) is. Any name us fellow g-nutters might recognize?

Justin, if you're ditching a peavey cab, let me know the asking price! (then convince me that I have room for it somewhere!):food-smiley-004:

will do. ripper's around here somewhere. how'd i get found out?

 

[Jims]

will do. ripper's around here somewhere. how'd i get found out?

I think getting a JSX as a gift is probably a rare thing in most societies lol. Either that, or you may have an internet salker lol

 

[Budda]

not an internet salker! that would SUCK! haha.

on a related note, anyone got a mesa 412 slant for sale? or better yet..an orange?