[DaddyDog]

Picked up a new 1610 powered mixer yesterday, and it seems to me the MON levels and output are significantly louder (hotter) than the MAINs. I would think it should be the other way around. Have you noticed the same? Makes me wonder if it's working properly.

 

[bw66]

What do you have for a speaker load? If you have 4 ohms connected to the monitors and 8 connected to the mains, then the output from the monitors will be louder. Are all of the faders and aux send levels at "unity" (usually the zero on the fader and about 7 or 8 on the aux level - sometimes there is a notch on the dial)? If everything is at "unity" and your speaker loads are equal, then levels should be pretty close to equal.

Maybe try connecting your main speakers to the monitor jacks and vice versa and see if the difference "follows the switch".

 

[DaddyDog]

What do you have for a speaker load? If you have 4 ohms connected to the monitors and 8 connected to the mains, then the output from the monitors will be louder. Are all of the faders and aux send levels at "unity" (usually the zero on the fader and about 7 or 8 on the aux level - sometimes there is a notch on the dial)? If everything is at "unity" and your speaker loads are equal, then levels should be pretty close to equal.

Maybe try connecting your main speakers to the monitor jacks and vice versa and see if the difference "follows the switch".

I'm using the same speaker model (at 8 ohms) to test. I did the switch you suggest, and yes the difference follows the switch. My tests were with an iPhone playing music, and I think that aggravated the situation. When testing with mics on vocals, and guitar amp, the difference wasn't quite so extreme.

Spent more time with it yesterday afternoon, and had a good jam session. Was able to find settings to get a close mix in mains and monitors. So at this time, maybe I should ask: as a single or duo act, without a sound man, how am I supposed to hear what the audience is hearing if the controls for main/mon are not identical?

A quick look at the Mackie and Yamaha powered mixer boxes appear to operate the same way. Looking forward to feedback (no pun intended) from anyone!

 

[bw66]

As a single or duo act, in a small venue, I would ditch the monitor and put the main(s) behind you - as long as levels are moderate, good mic placement should eliminate any feedback concerns. Or, as you suggested, have the monitor and main mix identical - there is no rule against that.

 

[jb welder]

Don't you have individual monitor sends for each channel? That is what determines the loudness of the monitor mix.
If the monitors are too loud, turn down the sends on each channel.
Also, you have an EQ for each of the internal amplifiers.

 

[DaddyDog]

Don't you have individual monitor sends for each channel? That is what determines the loudness of the monitor mix.
If the monitors are too loud, turn down the sends on each channel.

Sorry I should have elaborated in my opening post. Another way to describe what I was experiencing:
- ipod music feeding an input
- main send and mix send apparently set the same
- main level and mix level apparently set the same

My assumption that the 'sends' would be equal was wrong.

 

[DaddyDog]

I posed the issue to Yorkville Sound support, and was pleased to get prompt responses, even over the weekend. This suggestion helped immensely. Tried it last night with much satisfaction. I found moving the Pan just a notch or two worked great.

Connect main speakers to Amp A & monitors to Amp B. Use the channel Pan controls to give you the desired monitor levels. The monitor system itself will not be used.

 

[hollowbody]

Could it be the pre/post switch? If your monitor sends are pre-fader, then the fader position won't affect the loudness, so if any faders are below unity, the corresponding main will not be as loud as it is through the monitor.

 

[DaddyDog]

If your monitor sends are pre-fader

Yes that was the case.

 

[Milkman]

It seems like you’ve solved your problems.

For what it’s worth, I use M810 and M1610 heads for lots of small shows and I find them to be bullet proof, powerful and easy to dial in.

I’ll be using 7 or 8 of them next weekend doing the sound for the Rockton Fair. I’ve been the sound guy for that fair for more than ten years (can’t remember how long exactly). I use the Yorkie heads for all of the small stages and shows around the fairgrounds.

I even use one to control the big systems in the man stadium(track) where they hold the demo derbies and horse pulling events.
I don’t run them the way you mention however.

I generally connect mains to amp A, monitors to Amp B (making sure to set the amp switch to Main / Mon) and then set the monitor levels using the monitor master and the monitor controls on each channel.

It’s not hard to get a balance between monitors and mains, but you have to walk out front a few times to dial it in.

Works fine.

 

[Milkman]

Maybe this will help. It’s just a starting point (show hasn’t started) but the system sounds loud and clean (both monitors and mains).

If the graphs look a bit weird, understand that the room is a quonset hut.

 

[DaddyDog]

Great pic @Milkman , thanks!

 

[rspearce]

I generally connect mains to amp A, monitors to Amp B (making sure to set the amp switch to Main / Mon) and then set the monitor levels using the monitor master and the monitor controls on each channel.

Thanks Milkman, we've recently acquired the m1610 and we're still getting familiar with it for band practice. Tonight, we weren't able to get any sound out of the Mon Out and the manual doesn't seem to offer any solutions. Now that I've seen your post we are going to try your method next practice. However, I'm left wondering if there may be a problem with the unit. We got it used from L&M in Hamilton. With the Mon levels up (including each individual channel) there is no sound coming from the monitor when plugged into the Mon Out on front. I can't seem to see any other adjustments or settings. We tried the Main/Mon switch but nothing. Do we have to use powered monitors? You seem to be familiar with this PA. Perhaps you can offer some advice. Would be most appreciated. We're in Brantford also. Cheers

 

[Milkman]

When connecting the M1610 or M810 in the mains and monitors configuration, you use the speaker outputs on the back of the unit.

A. is mains and B. is monitor.

The monitor out on the front is a line level signal. You can send that but it isn’t an amp to speaker output.

No you don’t need powered speakers. The M1610 has the power.

The amp assign switch has to be set to Main / Monitor.

I hope that helps.

PM me if you would like more help. You’re in Brantford?

Maybe I can help face to face.

 

[DaddyDog]

@rspearce From the manual:
8. MON Out Jack - The monitor bus output signal from the Mon OUT jack is line level and would normally be patched to the input of a mono power amplifier (or a single channel of a stereo amp) driving stage monitor speakers.

So yes, your options are to feed that to powered speakers, or to another power amp.

What do you have in the A and B at the rear of the M1610? As Milkman says, it can drive both mains and monitors. We daisy chain two 8 ohm speakers to each. So we have two speakers as mains, and two as monitors.

 

[Milkman]

@rspearce From the manual:
8. MON Out Jack - The monitor bus output signal from the Mon OUT jack is line level and would normally be patched to the input of a mono power amplifier (or a single channel of a stereo amp) driving stage monitor speakers.

So yes, your options are to feed that to powered speakers, or to another power amp.

What do you have in the A and B at the rear of the M1610? As Milkman says, it can drive both mains and monitors. We daisy chain two 8 ohm speakers to each. So we have two speakers as mains, and two as monitors.

If you really need all 1600 watts for mains (800 each side) you COULD send from the Monitor out on the front of the mixer to the input of a powered monitor or to the input of another power amp.

The easiest way however (in my opinion) is the way I described.

 

[rspearce]

Thanks Milkman and DaddyDog for your quick replies. Both are helpful and both methods useful. For practice we certainly don't need 1600 watts therefore we can use the B channel with our passive monitors as you've mentioned Mm. I suppose if we wanted to use both A and B channels in a stereo application (with panning), then powered monitors via the Mon Out on front, as suggested by DD, would be the way to go. We're still pretty green when it comes to PA's and sound management. Thanks also Milkman, for your offer to help in person. We're a new band working towards performing live shows locally this summer. As we continue to build set lists, we hope to get more familiar with sound as well. Having limited experience, it would be great to get some input from someone who knows what they're doing. When we're ready, if you don't mind me reaching out to you that would be fantastic.

 

[Milkman]

Thanks Milkman and DaddyDog for your quick replies. Both are helpful and both methods useful. For practice we certainly don't need 1600 watts therefore we can use the B channel with our passive monitors as you've mentioned Mm. I suppose if we wanted to use both A and B channels in a stereo application (with panning), then powered monitors via the Mon Out on front, as suggested by DD, would be the way to go. We're still pretty green when it comes to PA's and sound management. Thanks also Milkman, for your offer to help in person. We're a new band working towards performing live shows locally this summer. As we continue to build set lists, we hope to get more familiar with sound as well. Having limited experience, it would be great to get some input from someone who knows what they're doing. When we're ready, if you don't mind me reaching out to you that would be fantastic.

I’d love to help.

Always exciting to see a new project take wing.

 

[Paul M]

Thanks Milkman and DaddyDog for your quick replies. Both are helpful and both methods useful. For practice we certainly don't need 1600 watts therefore we can use the B channel with our passive monitors as you've mentioned Mm. I suppose if we wanted to use both A and B channels in a stereo application (with panning), then powered monitors via the Mon Out on front, as suggested by DD, would be the way to go. We're still pretty green when it comes to PA's and sound management. Thanks also Milkman, for your offer to help in person. We're a new band working towards performing live shows locally this summer. As we continue to build set lists, we hope to get more familiar with sound as well. Having limited experience, it would be great to get some input from someone who knows what they're doing. When we're ready, if you don't mind me reaching out to you that would be fantastic.

@Milkman is a solid resource for you. I'm in Brantford too. If you need some PA for gigs, I've got some 2x15" + horn full range cabinets. No subs, but they can fill a room. I don't gig anymore, so they are just holding down the floor in the garage right now.