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prs trem or floyd rose

8937 Views 81 Replies 21 Participants Last post by  Jeff Flowerday
What are the differences and which one is better overall?
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I firmly believe it is all personal taste.
All the above stated trems can be really great. It comes down to preference.
I have had many stock Fender trems that stayed in tune perfectly. Vintage and otherwise. I mean there was some adjusting to do depending on how feroiously I went at it and for how long I went at it. But with a minor tweak between songs, they can be made to perform extremely well. If anyone needs any proof of this, just watch and listen to Jeff Beck. He uses a stock Fender modern trem and has that bar in his hands ALL the time. He pulls up, slams it with his palm, presses it all the way down and generally mauls it all set long. He does not have a tuner in his pedal board and I see him change guitars once in a 2 hr. set. That is tuning stability. Listen to "Where Were You" from Guitar Shop

The PRS trem IMHO is just a step further down the road to non-locking perfection. They require less set-up tweaking and stay in tune a little better than the Fender product.

The Floyd can stay in tune perfectly. It does change the tone though. I only say this because I have had two installed on Strats that I had without Floyds and then had them put on. Hey as long as you've had a guitar from the beginning that has had one on you don't know what your guitar sounded like with out one. As long as I played with heavy distortion there was an imperceptible difference. But when clean or slightly overdriven. The sound was smaller, less twangy. I know John Suhr will recomends Floyds to his customers that have tuning issues. And he makes guitars that are twang kings. Look at the Pensa/ Suhr Strats he built for Mark Knopfler. Right on his site he says that The Floyd Rose is the closest you can get to tuning perfection. Also a big thing here is pitch travel. The Floyd can do monsterous changes in pitch with just a slight touch of the pinky. Other trems are not capable of such dramatic changes in pitch so effortlessly. You can tell on a recording immediately if it is a Floyd or a Fender or a Bigsby for that matter. All have their unique sound and touch.

Now the Bigsby is one that has not been touched on here. Also a worthy trem with it's own thing going on. Again, a tone changer if you've put one on a guitar that you are familiar with previously. (I put one on a Les Paul). Way less sustain and definitely messes with the action on the neck. But they have their sound and the lack of travel of the arm can get you stuff that none of the others can. I have a Gretsch Country Gent that I can really go nuts on and not have to retune it for the next song. I point to Brian Setzer for you doubting Thomas', listen to his version of "Sleepwalk". KILLER !!!

Again I say it all comes down to preference of the player. I do not think any of these are better than the other, just different.
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faracaster... well said... I agree FR systems stay in tune great.
We have not mentioned Kahler yet either. I have one guitar with a kahler. A custom made Larivee V. Which I hade made back in the early 90's when I lived in Vancouver.
Kahlers stay in tune really well but not as well as a FR. Are as smooth a feel as any trem I've used. They do not have the travel of a FR system. The nice thing is they require no holes in your guitar's body. The tension can be light or heavy but to adjust you have to remove the unit from your guitar, replace it and try it out, and repeat as needed till the desired tension is reached... thats a pain.

Khing
KHINGPYNN said:
faracaster... well said... I agree FR systems stay in tune great.
We have not mentioned Kahler yet either. I have one guitar with a kahler. A custom made Larivee V. Which I hade made back in the early 90's when I lived in Vancouver.
Kahlers stay in tune really well but not as well as a FR. Are as smooth a feel as any trem I've used. They do not have the travel of a FR system. The nice thing is they require no holes in your guitar's body. The tension can be light or heavy but to adjust you have to remove the unit from your guitar, replace it and try it out, and repeat as needed till the desired tension is reached... thats a pain.

Khing
I was a Kahler user before switching to FRs.

I used Kahler pros on most of my guitars. In my opinion they are the SMOOTHEST feeling trem out there. I always morticed a ledge into the body around 3/16ths deep in the footprint of the bridge. This created more of an angle and seemd to help with sustain due to the strings being tighter in the saddles.

My only complaint was sustain and as for changing strings I always soldered the balls on the plain strings so it was slowere for me tha a FR string change.


The bar itself was wonderful. I loved the nylon bushing that they use to set the tension.
The only trick I did with my FR equipped guitar was top pull-off G string , dive bomb all the way down, then touch a harmonic at the 4th or 5th fret while picking up the bar and raising the pitch all the way up ( sometimes picking the guitar by the bar and shaking it ) . I did that a lot , and it still stayed in tune... I think that says a lot about tuning stability .
Not mentioned yet is the Wasburn Wonderbar. I have one of these(a Shift 2001) on a guitar and while it won't dive like a FR. It does stay in tune very well. Tension at the bar is heavy, but workable. I'm considering transplanting it on my Squier Strat. Surface mount makes installation a breeze. Still I beleive the FR is about as good as it gets.
i remember the wonder bar. But I've never tried one. I did hear it was a good unit and stayed in tune. A friend I met out west had owned one in the past.

Khing
MaxWedge said:
Not mentioned yet is the Wasburn Wonderbar. I have one of these(a Shift 2001) on a guitar and while it won't dive like a FR. It does stay in tune very well. Tension at the bar is heavy, but workable. I'm considering transplanting it on my Squier Strat. Surface mount makes installation a breeze. Still I beleive the FR is about as good as it gets.
My main guitar has been running the Shift 2001 since day one. It was the top load/no routing that caught my attention first. So nice to have a strat-style with all that extra wood.

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Nice guitar... do you have a picture of the other side?

Craig
2
KHINGPYNN said:
Nice guitar... do you have a picture of the other side?

Craig
Current incarnation with Seymour Duncan JB and two Evans Classic Rhythm piclups:


Alternate setup with either Evans Classic or Hot Lead and two Classic Rhythms:
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KHINGPYNN said:
Milkman said...



I'm not sure if I'm underdstanding your post Milkman... what"s nuts?

I'm talking about intonating on every string change...



I said intonation can be out a little. Thats why I intonate at every string change... maybe it's out and requires adjustment... maybe it's not and requires no adjustment. Surely you will agree that if it is out and out enough to make things sound bad then a FR system is not a simple system to intonate while standing up, guitar strapped on, in between songs or even sets. With a Fender sync trem like on a Strat or a Stop tail piece like on a Les paul for example a guy can do a quick intonation adjustment on the fly in between songs with a tuner and a small phillips screwdriver.

Then there is this...

And this...

And this...

So as you can see I'm not sure what's nuts. Are we slinging mud here Bro or what? If so thats a shame... no need for that. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but honestly I find some of your comments contradictory... so please clarify.

FR systems are great I've been using them for quite some time but they do have their common shrotfalls and like any system they are not perfect. Ask any Tekky who does it for a living... intonating a FR is a pain in the ASS... plain and simple. A restring takes more time than most other systems. As for the palm muting thing... I have never had a problem with the FR system, for tuning, pitch going sharp or anything. I really like the FR system... some guys complain that they reck tone... I tend to like the tones I get from my guitars that have FR systems... but yeah there is a noticable difference in tone. I also find that the overseas licenced FR systems do not sound as good as the origional spec models by Schaller. The cheaper overseas FR systems tend to have a thinner base plate that is not made of the same grade of alloy as say the origional FR or the Schaller which has a thicker Bell Brass base plate.

Khing
I think my comments should have been pretty clear.

Intonating a guitar is something I do when I change string gauges or brands. I check mine quickly when I restring, but with the FR properly tightened up, I have never had to adjust it.

Intonating while standing up , between songs, between sets?

If that doesn't seem nuts to you......:confused-smiley-010

I'm not slinging mud man, but really, who the F$%k intonates DURING a gig!?!


This is bordering on the Eric Johnson level of extremity.


There comes a point where I have to stop being a tech and start being an entertainer/player.

Sorry if this posture offends you. I'm just being honest. I don't see anything contradictory in my comments.
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Intonating during a gig may not be an everyday thing... usually things are done prior and ready to go... what I'm saying is it happens and man it's nasty with the FR system and easy with others... fact.

As for your comments being contradictory... you left these out in your last post... it's self explanitory or as I asked... clarify.

(Ooooo, once a year I have to spend an extra few minutes to tweak my intonation)?

For the record, I do check my intonation every time I change strings
So what I'm getting at here is I understand freedom of speech but actions will cause reactions and if someone tells me what I do is nuts then yeah I take offence to that. I really do not care how someone else does it ( not meant in a negative way ) and I'm surely mature enough to not make negative comments on a public forum when it concerns someones personal beliefs on do's and don'ts... thats just poor behaviour IMHO. If you intonate once a year than thats acceptable and yeah who cares about the little extra time it takes with a FR but if you intonate more often or say do it for a living... as I said...

As for the amount of time it takes to do work on a FR yeah it's longer but if like Milkman you do it once a year then who cares but if you are like myself and intonate on every string change then FR's are a pain in the ass.
Bottom line is this FR systems are great and have certain drawbacks and whether you love or hate them is a matter of personal opinion... other systems are great aswell and the same applies... I want you to know however that slammin people for their personal opinions is simply bad etiquette and I do not accept that and will have my say.

Its obvious to me and others as I see from reading the posts in this thread that I'm not alone in my thoughts here. I could not care less how many years you have played or whether you gig, or play in your basemant, how old you are, etc... I do not judge people on that nor do I judge them on what they deem necassary in getting their artistic expressions across.

As far as I'm concerned you owe me an apology and you should use better etiquette in the future... however if you decide not to thats your choice and the consequences of that choice are yours and yours alone.

Khing
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KHINGPYNN said:
Intonating during a gig may not be an everyday thing... usually things are done prior and ready to go... what I'm saying is it happens and man it's nasty with the FR system and easy with others... fact.

As for your comments being contradictory... you left these out in your last post... it's self explanitory or as I asked... clarify.






So what I'm getting at here is I understand freedom of speech but actions will cause reactions and if someone tells me what I do is nuts then yeah I take offence to that. I really do not care how someone else does it ( not meant in a negative way ) and I'm surely mature enough to not make negative comments on a public forum when it concerns someones personal beliefs on do's and don'ts... thats just poor behaviour IMHO. If you intonate once a year than thats acceptable and yeah who cares about the little extra time it takes with a FR but if you intonate more often or say do it for a living... as I said...



Bottom line is this FR systems are great and have certain drawbacks and whether you love or hate them is a matter of personal opinion... other systems are great aswell and the same applies... I want you to know however that slammin people for their personal opinions is simply bad etiquette and I do not accept that and will have my say.

Its obvious to me and others as I see from reading the posts in this thread that I'm not alone in my thoughts here. I could not care less how many years you have played or whether you gig, or play in your basemant, how old you are, etc... I do not judge people on that nor do I judge them on what they deem necassary in getting their artistic expressions across.

As far as I'm concerned you owe me an apology and you should use better etiquette in the future... however if you decide not to thats your choice and the consequences of that choice are yours and yours alone.

Khing

No, you're being way too sensitive. Grow a skin and accept that others will disagree with you periodically.

I owe you NO apology. If I resort to name calling or personal attacks, THEN I would be out of line.


If you are so distracted by the intonation on a guitar that you would consider intonating between songs, you may want to seek counciling, LOL.

As I said, you're approaching the Eric Johnson school of cork sniffing.

Artistic expression? Please.


Intonating a guitar in the middle of a show?


Raise your hands anybody who does this?????
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I don't personally intonate at a gig, but I can see if someones ear was refined enough that it could drive a guy nuts and make them do a quick intonation tweek during a gig. I'm not saying your ear isn't refined Milkman, just that others might be bothered enough that a quick intonation change keeps the sanity.


Now lets just leave it at that guys! It's starting to get personal, and I don't want to close another thread.


Jeff
Jeff Flowerday said:
I don't personally intonate at a gig, but I can see if someones ear was refined enough that it could drive a guy nuts and make them do a quick intonation tweek during a gig. I'm not saying your ear isn't refined Milkman, just that others might be bothered enough that a quick intonation change keeps the sanity.


Now lets just leave it at that guys! It's starting to get personal, and I don't want to close another thread.


Jeff

LOL.

Ok man.

I have to go put an elastic band around my Fuzz face.
With respect to this forum and it's members I will not reply to this thread.

Khing
Wide open debate. To each his own really. It comes down to what works for you and the type of music you play. Plus and minus for most all these systems. The intonation thing.... I think I might look at mine two or three times a year.
Man I apologize if I had something to do with the slight increase in temperature, I think we all can agree on at least one thing, playing guitar is better than sex:banana:
MaxWedge said:
Better than sex?
Well I can play guitar on any night of the week, I can play hard or soft, heavy or laid back, with my GT-8 I can dial in almost any tone I so choose...shall I continue and describe my sex life, or is that far enough...:rockon2:
I have no problems with the FR except:
1. Bridge flutter making adjacent string bends require multiple bends, all of differing degrees just to keep it in tune.
2. Biggest PITA to setup and maintain.
3. Break a string and put it down to pickup your spare.
4. Love taking a guitar string, clamping it in metal blocks at one end and then parking a Buick on two posts in the middle of the guitar. This is Tone? Not to me.
5. Looks like shite.
My Musicmans and PRSi stay in tune equally as well (so do my trad. Fender trems; setup is everything) and suffer from none of the above. One of these days I will meet Floyd in person and there will be an assault charge involved. Yeah, I fix guitars for a living...-Eric.
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