prs trem or floyd rose

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ne1roc

· #22 · Jan 6, 2007

ILUVMYJP7 said:
I disagree, no trem can match the stability, agility, and quality of a Petrucci Ernie Ball Music Man trem.

Well this is great to hear!!! I will be ordering a Petrucci in the next month or two!!!!! I need a tremolo that will really hold out like a floyd rose. Are you 100% serious? I'm a big EVH/Vai fan so this would be helpfull info!! :banana:

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Lemmy Hangslong

· #23 · Jan 6, 2007 (Edited)

The PRS trem is new to me I've been playing Floy Rose trems since 1983.

I just recently purchased a CE 22 with trem. I find the tuning stability very good, tone is not an issue... great tone, very smooth feel along the path of travel, pull up a half step tone by factory setup... thats cool I like my FR trems that way too. Does not dive bomb like a FR but how many dive bombs is a guy gonna do anyways and if so thats the least of my worries when it comes to criteria for scrutinizing trem performance.

One thing I must say is a pain is adjusting the height of the trem base. You need to take tension off the bridge and then turn all the screws exaclty the same amount. This is especially annoying if you like ultra low action because due to the factory settings of the trem you will likely not get enough adjustment from the saddles alone and you will have to do the trem base height adjustment. Aparently if it is done wrong you can permanently damage and possibly destruy the screw posts.
Fortunatly for me I was able to adjust my action to the way I like it from the saddles alone.

Read on... http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/bridges.html

Has anyone had to do this? Did you do it yourself or have a tek do it?

One final thing. Traditional strat trems can be set up to operate fine and I like the tone from that style of trem. However the Music Man traditional trem is my fav in that category. It has more mass and so much better transfer of energy... IMHO

Khing

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ILUVMYJP7

· #24 · Jan 6, 2007

ne1roc said:
Well this is great to hear!!! I will be ordering a Petrucci in the next month or two!!!!! I need a tremolo that will really hold out like a floyd rose. Are you 100% serious? I'm a big EVH/Vai fan so this would be helpfull info!! :banana:

Dude first off congrats for make what I consider the best decision any man can make. Not only are you buying what I consider to be the best guitar (well if it was a seven it would be the best so second best :tongue: ) but you are also going to be part of a family that takes care of their customers. You are set for life. I've bought many used EBMM guitars and any parts I needed, I simply called customer service and, bang there it was in the mail free. Make sure you join the forums over there as well

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/

as they will be friendly and very helpful should you need it.

Now onto the guitar. Forget everything you know about the Floyd, the Petrucci is way better. I have an EBMM JP7 and a Wayne Custome 7 string, hand made by Wayne Charvel, while I love both guitars, comparing the trems is like comparing night and day. I will never buy another Floyd equipped guitar again. Changing strings, intonating and tuning on a FLoyd is a pain in the butt, however on the Petrucci, it's like making love on a beech, with the waves brushing up against you...HEAVEN. Changeing strings with the locking tuners takes about a couple of minutes, and once those strings are stretched, and the tuners locked, that guitar will hold its tune, even during massive whammy bar acrobatics. Now let's say you want to intonate this baby, simply turn the set screw, there's no special tools required and no need to loosen the string, like on the Floyd. Again should you need to set the guitar up, well the Petrucci trem can be set to follow the exact radius of the fretboard,do to its individual saddle heoght adjustments, unlike MOST Floyds which have to lay flat. Finally, should the neck require some fine tuning, the EBMMs come with a unique feature that no other guitar has, the truss wheel adjustment at the base of the neck, which is easy to turn and requires no special tool, no plate removal nor neck removal.

Hey ask yourself, what other company has the owner posting on the forums asking members for input, plus showing prototypes to the members...I can go on and on.

Here is a video of demonstrating its tuning stability:

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/NorrinRadd1/?action=view&current=demo.flv

Look how compact it is:

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N

ne1roc

· #25 · Jan 6, 2007

Changing strings, intonating and tuning on a FLoyd is a pain in the butt, however on the Petrucci, it's like making love on a beech, with the waves brushing up against you...HEAVEN.

Ha, thats funny!

I was originally going for the 7 string but after trying one out, I realized I have have enough problems with 6 strings. Is the piezo equipt trem the same? Is that what you have?

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ILUVMYJP7

· #26 · Jan 6, 2007

ne1roc said:
Ha, thats funny!

I was originally going for the 7 string but after trying one out, I realized I have have enough problems with 6 strings. Is the piezo equipt trem the same? Is that what you have?

No I wish I had the piezo, perhaps when I save up enough my next one will be one with the piezo, and yes the two bridges are exactly the same except for the piezo. Have you seen the new prototype?

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S

SCREEM

· #27 · Jan 6, 2007

thats a nice trem, looks like it would stay in tune better than a PRS trem because of the 2 pivot system. What makes the prs trem stay in tune better thatn a vintage strat trem is the sides of the trem not allowing the saddles to move from side to side, tying a b string around the saddles of a vintage strat trem will bring it up to prs stability, assuming the nut and string trees are well setup.

This petrucci bridge must have a channel under the saddles to keep the from moving. a 2 pivot strat trem with tied saddles will hold its tune just as good.

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Milkman

· #28 · Jan 6, 2007 (Edited)

ILUVMYJP7 said:
Dude first off congrats for make what I consider the best decision any man can make. Not only are you buying what I consider to be the best guitar (well if it was a seven it would be the best so second best :tongue: ) but you are also going to be part of a family that takes care of their customers. You are set for life. I've bought many used EBMM guitars and any parts I needed, I simply called customer service and, bang there it was in the mail free. Make sure you join the forums over there as well

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/

as they will be friendly and very helpful should you need it.

Now onto the guitar. Forget everything you know about the Floyd, the Petrucci is way better. I have an EBMM JP7 and a Wayne Custome 7 string, hand made by Wayne Charvel, while I love both guitars, comparing the trems is like comparing night and day. I will never buy another Floyd equipped guitar again. Changing strings, intonating and tuning on a FLoyd is a pain in the butt, however on the Petrucci, it's like making love on a beech, with the waves brushing up against you...HEAVEN. Changeing strings with the locking tuners takes about a couple of minutes, and once those strings are stretched, and the tuners locked, that guitar will hold its tune, even during massive whammy bar acrobatics. Now let's say you want to intonate this baby, simply turn the set screw, there's no special tools required and no need to loosen the string, like on the Floyd. Again should you need to set the guitar up, well the Petrucci trem can be set to follow the exact radius of the fretboard,do to its individual saddle heoght adjustments, unlike MOST Floyds which have to lay flat. Finally, should the neck require some fine tuning, the EBMMs come with a unique feature that no other guitar has, the truss wheel adjustment at the base of the neck, which is easy to turn and requires no special tool, no plate removal nor neck removal.

Hey ask yourself, what other company has the owner posting on the forums asking members for input, plus showing prototypes to the members...I can go on and on.

Here is a video of demonstrating its tuning stability:

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/NorrinRadd1/?action=view&current=demo.flv

Look how compact it is:

C'mon man. This is a nice system but I've picked one up and played it. To say this bridge holds a tune like a FR is just plain silly.

Also it's more limited in terms of raising the pitch.

FR is still supreme in my opinion. Even the Ibanez Edge systems pale by comparison.

As for all the whining about how hard it is to change strings and intonate a FR, what hogwash.

How about fifteen minutes for a complete string change and a half an hour for an intonation (Ooooo, once a year I have to spend an extra few minutes to tweak my intonation)?

Anything with a conventional nut is technically inferior to a FR.

If you don't like FRs (it's trendy to bash them I suppose) OK, but making claims that EB, MM, PRS or Wilkenson has created a better system is laughable to me.

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Lemmy Hangslong

· #29 · Jan 6, 2007

I agree with Iluvmyjp7. Ernie Ball music man is simply put one of the best guitars money can buyand the customer support is absolutly second to none. I own a Silhouete Special M.I.A.C 26 of 30. Read the guest book submission Brian Ball wrote...

http://pub30.bravenet.com/guestbook/2527020227/4

I've talked with Brian since then. He is very approachable... the Music man team is incredible.

As for the amount of time it takes to do work on a FR yeah it's longer but if like Milkman you do it once a year then who cares but if you are like myself and intonate on every string change then FR's are a pain in the ass. Why do I intonate on every string change... becasue no two sets of strings are alike. Even if you use good quality strings the intonation can be out a little and I hear it. It drives me crazy when I'm out of intonation because it takes a bench top fix ( with the FR ) unliike being out of tune which can be fixed on the fly.

Good luck with the new Petrucci!

Khing

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Milkman

· #30 · Jan 6, 2007 (Edited)

KHINGPYNN said:
I agree with Iluvmyjp7. Ernie Ball music man is simply put one of the best guitars money can buyand the customer support is absolutly second to none. I own a Silhouete Special M.I.A.C 26 of 30. Read the guest book submission Brian Ball wrote...

http://pub30.bravenet.com/guestbook/2527020227/4

I've talked with Brian since then. He is very approachable... the Music man team is incredible.

As for the amount of time it takes to do work on a FR yeah it's longer but if like Milkman you do it once a year then who cares but if you are like myself and intonate on every string change then FR's are a pain in the ass. Why do I intonate on every string change... becasue no two sets of strings are alike. Even if you use good quality strings the intonation can be out a little and I hear it. It drives me crazy when I'm out of intonation because it takes a bench top fix ( with the FR ) unliike being out of tune which can be fixed on the fly.

Good luck with the new Petrucci!

Khing

How many people intonate during EVERY string change?

Sorry man, but that's NUTS!!

There will be extreme cases where a set of strings is noticeably different than others of the same brand and gauge, but I have many things to consider in terms of the overall sound of both the guitars and the band. If you applied this level of attention to every important element of your music, you'd never emerge from the basement.

For the record, I do check my intonation every time I change strings. It takes a couple of seconds per string and if it needed adjustment I would simply do it. Also in case I haven't mentioned this, I change my strings every two weeks or two gigs, whichever comes first.

I'm not knocking the MM system, just pointing out that many of the complaints about FRs are insignificant and well, irelevent.

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ILUVMYJP7

· #31 · Jan 6, 2007

Milkman said:
How many people intonate during EVERY string change?

Sorry man, but that's NUTS!!

There will be extreme cases where a set of strings is noticeably different than others of the same brand and gauge, but I have many things to consider in terms of the overall sound of both the guitars and the band. If you applied this level of attention to every important element of your music, you'd never emerge from the basement.

For the record, I do check my intonation every time I change strings. It takes a couple of seconds per string and if it needed adjustment I would simply do it.

I'm not knocking the MM system, just pointing out that many of the complaints about FRs are insignificant and well, irelevent.

Again it all boils down to preference, however you have to admit that, in terms of design, there is an obvious difference...come on admit it. There's even a spot to rest your palm, whereas the Floyds had to come up with additional hardware to compete. The EBMM JP trem takes all of the best functions and combined them into one unique package. Can you adjust the individual saddle heights on your Floyd? I have my EBMM JP7 adjusted to 1/32' and that's on the Low B. With my Floyd equipped guitar, I cannot do that unless I go out and purchase shims, and then that would require a lot of work. We are not bashing, we are just stating the obvious. The Floyd was king of the 80's but what have they done to improve since then? The EBMM JP trem is a far superior design, and there's nothing no one can say to convince me otherwise. I have played most of the different trems out there, and there is no comparison, when one includes ALL of the benefits that come with EBMM JP trem.

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GuitarsCanada

· #32 · Jan 6, 2007

Certainly a subject for debate. I had an Ibenez RG570 that had the LoPro Edge system on it and once set, it was near impossible to knock it out of tune. I have not owned a Music Man so can't comment on that one. I have had many FR equiped guitars and most of them were very good as well. Set-up when I first started to play was a major hassle. But over the years you pick up little tricks here and there to make the string changes and set-up a lot faster.

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Milkman

· #33 · Jan 6, 2007 (Edited)

ILUVMYJP7 said:
Again it all boils down to preference, however you have to admit that, in terms of design, there is an obvious difference...come on admit it. There's even a spot to rest your palm, whereas the Floyds had to come up with additional hardware to compete. The EBMM JP trem takes all of the best functions and combined them into one unique package. Can you adjust the individual saddle heights on your Floyd? I have my EBMM JP7 adjusted to 1/32' and that's on the Low B. With my Floyd equipped guitar, I cannot do that unless I go out and purchase shims, and then that would require a lot of work. We are not bashing, we are just stating the obvious. The Floyd was king of the 80's but what have they done to improve since then? The EBMM JP trem is a far superior design, and there's nothing no one can say to convince me otherwise. I have played most of the different trems out there, and there is no comparison, when one includes ALL of the benefits that come with EBMM JP trem.

Again, smoke and mirrors. I palm mute with ease on my FRs. It's a simple matter of learning to lighten up on the pressure and I don't give it a second thought.

Individual string height adjustment? Never found this to be a problem with FRs.

Go back and listen to the video posted earlier demonstrating the MM.

Hear that clunking?

If that doesn't bother you ok, but my FRs don't make that kind of noise no matter WHAT I do to them.

Perhaps you're more of a technically oriented player than I am but again, having tried both systems, the FR sounds, plays and feels significanty better to me.

When you say something like "there's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise" there's not much point in discussing it further.

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ILUVMYJP7

· #34 · Jan 6, 2007

Milkman said:
When you say something like "there's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise" there's not much point in discussing it further.

You got that right, only because I have played, owned, operated, and worked on the different choices. Why the hell would I want to go back to a Floyd?

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Milkman

· #35 · Jan 6, 2007

ILUVMYJP7 said:
You got that right, only because I have played, owned, operated, and worked on the different choices. Why the hell would I want to go back to a Floyd?

Because it's better, and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise?

Kidding of course.

The day I play a better system than an original FR, I'll buy it.

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ILUVMYJP7

· #36 · Jan 6, 2007

Milkman said:
Because it's better, and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise?

Kidding of course.

The day I play a better system than an original FR, I'll buy it.

As long as we are happy, that's all that counts!

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Milkman

· #37 · Jan 7, 2007

ILUVMYJP7 said:
As long as we are happy, that's all that counts!

Exactly right.

I wouldn't state that the FR is the best, only that it is the best so far for my tastes.

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ILUVMYJP7

· #38 · Jan 7, 2007

Milkman said:
Exactly right.

I wouldn't state that the FR is the best, only that it is the best so far for my tastes.

Well I was thinking about it a while back and they both definately have their pros and cons...I mean one downside of the EBMM JP trem is that you have to like the JP to have one, and unfortunately it's not for everyone, whereas the Floyd and it's licensee's can be found on all sorts of models. There I bet you'd never expected that response now did you...

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Lemmy Hangslong

· #39 · Jan 7, 2007 (Edited)

Milkman said...

How many people intonate during EVERY string change?

Sorry man, but that's NUTS!!

There will be extreme cases where a set of strings is noticeably different than others of the same brand and gauge, but I have many things to consider in terms of the overall sound of both the guitars and the band. If you applied this level of attention to every important element of your music, you'd never emerge from the basement.

For the record, I do check my intonation every time I change strings. It takes a couple of seconds per string and if it needed adjustment I would simply do it. Also in case I haven't mentioned this, I change my strings every two weeks or two gigs, whichever comes first.

I'm not sure if I'm underdstanding your post Milkman... what"s nuts?

I'm talking about intonating on every string change...

As for the amount of time it takes to do work on a FR yeah it's longer but if like Milkman you do it once a year then who cares but if you are like myself and intonate on every string change then FR's are a pain in the ass. Why do I intonate on every string change... becasue no two sets of strings are alike. Even if you use good quality strings the intonation can be out a little and I hear it. It drives me crazy when I'm out of intonation because it takes a bench top fix ( with the FR ) unliike being out of tune which can be fixed on the fly.

I said intonation can be out a little. Thats why I intonate at every string change... maybe it's out and requires adjustment... maybe it's not and requires no adjustment. Surely you will agree that if it is out and out enough to make things sound bad then a FR system is not a simple system to intonate while standing up, guitar strapped on, in between songs or even sets. With a Fender sync trem like on a Strat or a Stop tail piece like on a Les paul for example a guy can do a quick intonation adjustment on the fly in between songs with a tuner and a small phillips screwdriver.

Then there is this...

If you applied this level of attention to every important element of your music, you'd never emerge from the basement.

And this...

For the record, I do check my intonation every time I change strings

And this...

(Ooooo, once a year I have to spend an extra few minutes to tweak my intonation)?

So as you can see I'm not sure what's nuts. Are we slinging mud here Bro or what? If so thats a shame... no need for that. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but honestly I find some of your comments contradictory... so please clarify.

FR systems are great I've been using them for quite some time but they do have their common shrotfalls and like any system they are not perfect. Ask any Tekky who does it for a living... intonating a FR is a pain in the ASS... plain and simple. A restring takes more time than most other systems. As for the palm muting thing... I have never had a problem with the FR system, for tuning, pitch going sharp or anything. I really like the FR system... some guys complain that they reck tone... I tend to like the tones I get from my guitars that have FR systems... but yeah there is a noticable difference in tone. I also find that the overseas licenced FR systems do not sound as good as the origional spec models by Schaller. The cheaper overseas FR systems tend to have a thinner base plate that is not made of the same grade of alloy as say the origional FR or the Schaller which has a thicker Bell Brass base plate.

Khing

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ne1roc

· #40 · Jan 7, 2007

I went to The Arts Music Store where I will be purchasing my JPMM. Talking to one of the guys there who has two JP's, and is a JP mega fan, his opinion is, while the JP trem is awesome and does everything he needs it to do, he feels that nothing holds it's tuning like an FR.

Which trem is better is a matter of personal taste. Like every other piece of gear that exists for us guitarist!

:rockon:

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