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Discussion Starter #1
I am one of those, the ones you see lurking outside buildings and hiding in alleys... I'm a smoker.. I admit it is a bad habit, and it is also a hard one to shake. My rant is about the smoking shelters at work. I don't find it a problem to take my habit outside and I respect the rights of the non smokers, but what about some of my rights.. At home I don't smoke in the house, haven't for about 15 years now. I take it out to my shop. At work they made us a bus shelter type building, it was suitable, sheltered with a door way. Then along came the smoking police. The shelter was not allowed to have all four walls two had to go.. Now we had a wind tunnel. My question, why can't there be four walls, nobody but us smokers in there and we know the risks?
Why does it have to be uncomfortable to go out there and have a smoke ?
We had hung a plastic curtain across one end to stop the wind effect and along came the smoke police and told the company it had to come down or charges would be laid. Then she made the comment " HA spoiled your fun", what is this all about?? Smoke police, now there could be trans fat police in our future..... :mad:
 

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I smoked but was able to break the habit many years ago. That said I'm not sure why a company should have to pay for any walls to help someone slowly kill themselves. Freezing to death, the same end result isn't it?

:eek: :wink: :D
 

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...i'm a "social" smoker who supports the rights of both smokers and non-smokers (except for those smokers who think the earth is their ashtray!).

i do not believe your employer is obligated in any way to provide a smoking area. how is that his problem?

-dh
 

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"Don't break your heart..."

PaulS said:
Why does it have to be uncomfortable to go out there and have a smoke ?
We had hung a plastic curtain across one end to stop the wind effect and along came the smoke police and told the company it had to come down or charges would be laid. Then she made the comment " HA spoiled your fun", what is this all about?? Smoke police, now there could be trans fat police in our future..... :mad:
Paul, you're absolutely right. They want smokers to be uncomfortable so they'd be more inclined to quit. The thought that smokers might see what they're doing and resent them for it never entered their minds. If you die of pneumonia they'll just mark "smoking related" on your death certificate anyway. The "Ilsa of the NicoTroopers" woman you mentioned was of course enjoying herself. Those kind of people LOVE to force others to do what they tell them to!

That being said, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Just hide, try to keep your children away from such people and enjoy your vice in secret. Console yourself with the thought that what goes around comes around and someday you may be able to force HER to give up something she likes that YOU think is bad for her!

Well, maybe not. People like that don't seem to like much of anything - except control over others.


The problem is bigger than any of us. Someday things may change but for now don't keep whacking your head against the wall.
 

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Wild Bill said:
Paul, you're absolutely right. They want smokers to be uncomfortable so they'd be more inclined to quit. The thought that smokers might see what they're doing and resent them for it never entered their minds. If you die of pneumonia they'll just mark "smoking related" on your death certificate anyway. The "Ilsa of the NicoTroopers" woman you mentioned was of course enjoying herself. Those kind of people LOVE to force others to do what they tell them to!
That being said, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Just hide, try to keep your children away from such people and enjoy your vice in secret. Console yourself with the thought that what goes around comes around and someday you may be able to force HER to give up something she likes that YOU think is bad for her!
Well, maybe not. People like that don't seem to like much of anything - except control over others.
The problem is bigger than any of us. Someday things may change but for now don't keep whacking your head against the wall.

...i'm in complete agreement. anti-smoking nazis are no better than smoking nazis. but i still don't understand why an employer is obligated in any way to provide a smoking area.

-dh
 

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david henman said:
...i'm in complete agreement. anti-smoking nazis are no better than smoking nazis. but i still don't understand why an employer is obligated in any way to provide a smoking area.

-dh
good point.. at least you wont get rained on, paul...
 

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The whole notion of smokers' "rights" is problematic: you are a drug addict, not the victim of a civil liberty breach.

I don't really know why your smoking shelter keeps getting halved. My guess is that any structure with 4 walls and a roof is legally considered a building and employees cannot smoke in a company building; tearing two walls off helps comply with the law (just a guess).

BTW, I smoked from 18-29. It will soon be 6 years since I had a smoke: without a doubt the smartest thing I've ever done and the best gift I've ever given myself. Once you really quit, you will be shocked at how much smoking controled your life. Things you didn't even realize (thing you do, won't do, think, structure your day) are all related to nicotine but you won't realize it until nicotine is out of your system.

Just remember: once a smoker always a smoker. Alcholoics can't be social smokers and ex-smokers cannot go on to be social smokers.

TG
 

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Wild Bill said:
Paul, you're absolutely right. They want smokers to be uncomfortable so they'd be more inclined to quit.
I disagree. The reason being the government makes a shit load of money putting taxes on smokes, and everyone knows the government wants our money.

If they really didnt want people smoking wouldnt they have banned it? I mean they did ban trans fats.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Some misconception here, I never ranted at my employer. They did not have to provide but they did, and I thank them. It is the Smoking Police and there guidelines. The company gave us four walls the SP took away two. My question was why does it matter how many walls when the only people in there are smokers....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
traynor_garnet said:
The whole notion of smokers' "rights" is problematic: you are a drug addict, not the victim of a civil liberty breach.

I don't really know why your smoking shelter keeps getting halved. My guess is that any structure with 4 walls and a roof is legally considered a building and employees cannot smoke in a company building; tearing two walls off helps comply with the law (just a guess).

BTW, I smoked from 18-29. It will soon be 6 years since I had a smoke: without a doubt the smartest thing I've ever done and the best gift I've ever given myself. Once you really quit, you will be shocked at how much smoking controled your life. Things you didn't even realize (thing you do, won't do, think, structure your day) are all related to nicotine but you won't realize it until nicotine is out of your system.

Just remember: once a smoker always a smoker. Alcholoics can't be social smokers and ex-smokers cannot go on to be social smokers.

TG
Your absolutely right smokers are drug addicts, unfortuneatley when I was growing up there was no education or even a smoking problem at that time. When you got caught smoking by your parents the response was , you might as well smoke out herew than hiding and burning the place down. By the time society deemed it harmful I was well hooked. I applaud your quitting, I wish that I could and stay off them, but I keep coming back. I do not encourage anybody to smoke and if I see young ones smoking I relate my woes..
So I guess it's back to hiding again......
 

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Discussion Starter #12
david henman said:
...i'm a "social" smoker who supports the rights of both smokers and non-smokers (except for those smokers who think the earth is their ashtray!).

i do not believe your employer is obligated in any way to provide a smoking area. how is that his problem?

-dh
The employer is not required to supply an area, our company was good enough to take it on there behalf and give us one. And again I thank them for there gesture. They even supplied benches to sit on.
 

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"It depends on who's asking..."

mick7 said:
I disagree. The reason being the government makes a shit load of money putting taxes on smokes, and everyone knows the government wants our money.

If they really didnt want people smoking wouldnt they have banned it? I mean they did ban trans fats.
You're right, of course. They haven't banned it because of the tax revenue. What's more, maybe a third of adults WHO GET TO VOTE still smoke! What do you think would happen to a politician who banned nicotine?

Still, you talk as if the government is one intelligent, logical personality who makes decisions. It just ain't so! Government is made up of a whole passle of folks who have greater or lesser power in a whole spectrum of areas. These folks never talk to each other, either.

Why do you think you have to give all your personal info everytime you deal with a different branch of government? It's because there is no common data base. Every department has their own.

Governments are perfectly capable of having conflicting departments, and often do.

More simply, you start off with a fixed quantity of intelligence and then you divide by the number of people involved. As you put more civil servants on the job the ones you deal with face to face get dumber and dumber.

Politicians appeal to voting groups and will always suck and blow to contrary groups any time they can get away with it.

As an aside to David H., you asked why a company is obligated to provide a smoking area. The answer is that they're not, but they can either out of simple compassion or to try to keep good employees. Some folks are lucky enough to work in fields where they can bail out of a large company and work from home as a consultant or whatever. To an addicted smoker the temptation can be strong.

I still remember working in the late 80's at a Westinghouse plant as the nico laws started to kick in. The manager had a real problem in that some of his most productive workers were smokers and some of the office worst complainers and "sticky beaks" were demanding smoking bans. The sticky beaks couldn't care less about his productivity concerns.

Before the flames start I wish to state again that I haven't smoked in years. I'm just someone who deplores watching some folks seize opportunities to tell their neighbour how to live his life.
 

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Dats IT !!!

hmmm....I'm a smoker and prefer to smoke outside. Windows open in my car all year around when I do have one, outside in front of my apt. In fact, until my first daughter was born, I never understood how smoking outside would be so beneficial:). Have you seen what smoking indoors does to everything in your house? yuk. Yellow, sticky film that's just impossible to completely wash out. Not including the stench it leaves behind. O.k. so my clothes stink, my lungs filled with toxins, but I can enjoy my smoke outside, whereas indoors i'm not only smoking my cigarette, but everyone elses as well. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who smoked around me as a child, for blessing me with this curse I now have to cope with for the remainder of my days. Gotta love sarcasm:).

P.S. Why should my daughters suffer for my choices:). Take it outdoors, it's the habit thats killing us and not the cold weather!!
 

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Not meaning to be unsympathetic...

Rattlesnake said:
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who smoked around me as a child, for blessing me with this curse I now have to cope with for the remainder of my days. Gotta love sarcasm:).
Hey, nobody put a gun to my head when I started smoking. And even in that era (the Pleistocene) everyone knew that smoking wasn't a healthy habit.

I smoked for nearly 30 years. I quit for financial reasons. I just - stopped smoking! No patches, no hypnotism, no excuses. I just stopped.

I had zero cravings. I think that this time it was because I had realized that my finances were such that I couldn't include tobacco in the family budget. So slipping wouldn't hurt just me but also those I loved. Now I'm a guy whose first book was a science book, even before Dr. Seuss! I'm very skeptical of the claims about passive smoke harming others in the house. My mother is still laughing about how she saw in the newspaper that smoking causes smaller babies. She says that if she had known that when she had me and my siblings she'd have smoked even more!

However, money issues are much more black and white. I stopped and haven't had a desire to start again since.

Still eat too much, 'though. I'll make a lame excuse. I married a girl of Italian extraction who could boil rocks and make 'em taste good! I guess to everyone some things come easier than others...
 

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I could care less one way or the other. If you smoke, Enjoy. If you don't and people smoking bothers you, stay away from them when they are smoking.
What I feel with certainty is that once nobody smokes anymore, and it will happen, the smoking police/nazis will not just go away. They will simply focus on another vice. Coffee Drinkers perhaps. Donut eaters, Gum Chewers, Beer Drinkers, people who ride bicycles on city streets. So as long as smokers aren't blowing smoke in your face, just be glad that the nazis are still picking on them and not the rest of us. And, as friend pointed out to me...
There is so much tax on a package of cigarretres in this country, it's almost unpatriotic not to smoke. LOL
 

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Libertarian principles would say you have the right to smoke as long as your smoking doesnt infringe on other people's right to not be exposed to the smoke. Arent principles great?..................
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I have no problem taking it outside, or refraining from smoking if asked. I do not smoke in my own house and do not allow anyone else to. I respect the rights of non smokers and hope they respect mine. Now with all that said my rant at the beginning was more aimed at the smoking police and there attitude. The company I work for was good enough to give us a shelter, not because they had to but because they cared. The smoking police had to pick apart our shelter and rub it in our face that they were spoiling our fun? That is the weird part. Can they not ammend the law so we can have back our four walls or a least three. It is a place for only smokers and they now the liabilities. Would that be too much to ask ? Maybe someday smoking will be phased out and that will probably be a good thing. But on the other hand as stated previously, where will they make up the tax loss ?? Who will they pick on next ?? :confused-smiley-010
 
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