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I don't state facts here. That would be you.

I state opinions.
Really? Let me pick out a quick one.

Milkman said:
The truth is, a good player should be able to get his tone with whatever rig he chooses within reason.
The truth? Seems like you're implying it's a fact.

violation said:
Your sound and phrasing comes from the fingers, tone comes from gear. Known fact...
Busted your "fact" with real facts.

So now you've made yourself look like a liar. Are you proud of that?
 

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Really? Let me pick out a quick one.


The truth? Seems like you're implying it's a fact.


Busted your "fact" with real facts.

So now you've made yourself look like a liar. Are you proud of that?
LOL, clearly you're much brighter and more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to all things relating to playing in a band.

I only hope I can gain the wisdom someday that you have already accumulated.

:food-smiley-004:



Hmmmm, so far in this thread I've been called "stupid", "a liar" and one can only wonder what's next.
 

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Clapton has signature instruments with both Fender and Gibson. Who says that Line 6 users are exclusive? I use a Spider II amp because it gets me work. I also use a Trinity 5E3 kit tube amp because it meets other needs.

There are, by my count, over 150 artists on the Line 6 page to which I provided a link. You posted an image of one guy who is posed with a different manufacturers product. I'm sure if we wanted to waste time we could do that with all of the listed artists. Steve Howe had a signature ES-175, and he has been seen on stage with a Variax. Does that mean he is or is not a modelling user?
Thing is Shaun has been using Randall (with the preamp modules) for years and has never used a Line 6 product live. I know this for a fact! There was a huge article not too long ago about his gear and he didn't mention Line 6 once. Yet Line 6's site says he uses(d) their heads.

My first amp, years before you were born, was a Peavey Audition 20. It sold for, (IIRC) over $200.00. It was and is a POS. $200.00 can buy you a pretty good all-in-one pedal board, or an impressive Spider III. You will get a wider array of useful tones than you can get with just one hand wired point to point all tube combo.

You prefer a specific sound, that's fine for you. Milkman and I prefer to work, and get paid for it. Modelling gives us the flexibility we need and can use to make it happen.
Spider III impressive? Waah?! Lol, I had one for about a week before taking it back... got it as a practice amp when they first came out. Was the first digital product I owned... first the knob that you use to change amp models stopped working, then the effects stopped working. It was all down hill from there, lol.

I agree you can get more tones, but the price is so low the quality of those tones suffer. Seriously, harmonics on the Spider III are terribley digital... not like the PODxt that atleast sound a bit natural. 1 sec they have a clip on their site that shows what I mean.

http://line6.com/spideriii/sounds01.html

Go down to the No More Tears preset clip... tell me that shit isn't insanely digital, lol.

Dr. Phil has a saying where many youth "...don't know what they don't know". Guys like Milkman and me, (and many others), have been doing this for 25+ years. We've got years of both giving and taking lessons under our belt. We've got post secondary music education. We've been through the death of guitar based rock bands more than once. We've made the decisions and gear choices that allow us to become, and continue to be, working musicians. You may choose a different route than us. It doesn't make any of us right or wrong, but your approach mostly comes across as a bit closed minded.
Lol @ Dr.Phil... example, I know your fingers can't change the tone of the amp where he said otherwise. Want to prove me wrong? Plug into a Fender and make it sound like a Mesa without the help of any effects. I'll give you all my gear if you can, rofl.

I don't need 25+ years to know what my ears tell me... my step dad has been playing just as long as that and he says the same thing... and he's got and been through a lot of gear. Was an active gigging musician since he was about 18, tried the digital route earlier this year and went back to his JCM900. I've got 20+ year old friends who have been playing since they were 10 years old and all say the same thing I do.

I am being closed minded, I admit it. I gave the PODxt and a few other products a fair shot and they failed in my books.

Versatile? Yes.

Good for people on a tight budget? Sure.

As good as the tube amps they're trying to emulate? Far from it, they react differently and it's the differences that define a tube amp and give it the great sound they have. I (and others) find them to have an unnatural tone which throws us off (anyone with a decent ear and experience with both digital and tube products can tell the difference!).

Good for home recording? If you can't crank a tube amp or need to bring the device somewhere fast, definetly a good alternative.

Just like the first generation BOSS effect pedals have become coveted on the used market, I believe that early generation modelling will become a "collectable".
I don't know if that is true... I kind of see it being the other way around, newer products will be the ones people want and go after. Technology is always growing and improving, perfect example is parts inside a PC. After a month or a year the value of the product goes down significantly because something new and improved comes out.

With vintage pedals, people go after that vintage tone and require them. With modelling, there's still some shit they need to improve.

If they improve the modelling and make it actually react like and sound as natural as the tube amp they're tryring to emulate I could see the value going up and more people becoming interested. When they do hit that stage of modelling I'll give them a fair shot again. At this point in the digital game, the tone doesn't really touch any quality amp.

Long post or what? Haha, took forever to type with 1 hand (didn't want to miss out on practice so I did legato the whole time).
 

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Here's the crux.

A piece of gear that may be great for one person with a particular need may not be the best choice for another person with other needs. I normally gig with a single-channel tube amp and a couple of pedals. I love the sound and feel, and that setup gives me all the flexibility I need for what I do. Milkman and Paul need more variety for the things they do. My rig wouldn't cut it for them. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

This is kind of like a carpenter and an electrician arguing over whether a soldering iron or a circular saw is the better tool.

Well yes and no. I don't need the flexibility so much and if I didn't like the basic sounds I wouldn't choose a modeler over a conventional rig. Neither would I choose it based on price alone.

The sounds I use could easily be obtained with a modest amp and pedalboard.

I just think this sounds better out front and the other benefits (ease of transport and set up, added space on stage, relative economy, et cetera) although secondary considerations, obviously make the decision easier.
 
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