[cboutilier]

I've had a soft spot for vintage Canadian amps since a friend introduced me to Pepco amps. I've since owned a few Pepco products, but Garnets have eluded my grasp until now. They don't pop up for sale as often this far East.

This one is a 1970s Garnet Tripper PA head, that used to be the yard PA at a junkyard. Cool mojo for a car guy, like me. It certainly needs some love though, unless smoking output transformers was a factory feature.

 

[Paul Running]

Needs a heart transplant?

 

[Lincoln]

That's pretty cool! Thanks for saving her life

2 x 6V6 power tubes?

I've got one that looks just like that control wise. Only difference is mine says "Rebel PA"

 

[cboutilier]

2x 6V6 and a pair of 12A family tubes in the front. SS rectified.

Model number is T90PA.

It supposedly still passed sound when buddy powered it up this morning, but the OT started to smoke. He immediately powered it down.

 

[Frenchy99]

Oufff... Open her up and take pics. Any way to test the tubes ?

Nice amp !

 

[Paul Running]

2x 6V6 and a pair of 12A family tubes in the front. SS rectified.

Model number is T90PA.

It supposedly still passed sound when buddy powered it up this morning, but the OT started to smoke. He immediately powered it down.

A close eye ball inspection and then some continuity testing in the output section, measure both primary windings of the OPTFM with the 6V6s in circuit and then out of circuit and hope that it is a bad output tube.

 

[cboutilier]

A close eye ball inspection and then some continuity testing in the output section, measure both primary windings of the OPTFM with the 6V6s in circuit and then out of circuit and hope that it is a bad output tube.

Bad 6V6 would be a lucky break! They are quite old tubes, of Japanese origin.

 

[Paul Running]

They are quite old tubes, of Japanese origin.

Hit-Rays?

 

[cboutilier]

Hit-Rays?

They are branded at Keldon Citation, and don't even have the tube type stamped on them!

 

[Lincoln]

@Frenchy99 Are the knobs on this PA amp early or later? I always thought these were the later knobs, now I'm wondering if I have it backwards. Got time for an Expert opinion?

 

[Frenchy99]

@Frenchy99 Are the knobs on this PA amp early or later? I always thought these were the later knobs, now I'm wondering if I have it backwards. Got time for an Expert opinion?

These knobs came out around 74-75 if I remember correctly

 

[cboutilier]

These knobs came out around 74-75 if I remember correctly

75 I believe. This should be a 75-80 or so.

 

[Frenchy99]

75 I believe. This should be a 75-80 or so.

Your transformers date codes will help date your amp.

 

[Granny Gremlin]

That's pretty cool! Thanks for saving her life

2 x 6V6 power tubes?

I've got one that looks just like that control wise. Only difference is mine says "Rebel PA"

The Rebel PA is 6L6s though, but yes otherwise same chassis (bigger iron).

The preamps on these are super clean (low gain; they only get a bit dirty at the very end of travel, like the last quarter turn maybe less) but not band limited as much as standard guitar amp preamps - the potential for more highs and lows. In fact for most guitars (barring super bright single coils) you're gonna wanna turn the master bass knob down especially in the mix vs solo practise. Great as a pedal platform (clean power or, if you push it which is not hard with 6V6s, power tube OD) or a bass amp. Leaves a little to be desired as a direct in guitar amp tonewise, but they are great mod platforms because you have 4 preamp triodes to play with (you only need 2 for a standard guitar input of just about any flavour you desire, as is each input uses 1, hence the low gain) or a great vocal /harp/mic'd acoustic amp (if you have a nice HiZ mic like a Shure Unydine era 57, or a lo to hi Z transformer/adapter).

 

[Lincoln]

The Rebel PA is 6L6s though, but yes otherwise same chassis (bigger iron).

The preamps on these are super clean (low gain; they only get a bit dirty at the very end of travel, like the last quarter turn maybe less) but not band limited as much as standard guitar amp preamps - the potential for more highs and lows. In fact for most guitars (barring super bright single coils) you're gonna wanna turn the master bass knob down especially in the mix vs solo practise. Great as a pedal platform (clean power or, if you push it which is not hard with 6V6s, power tube OD) or a bass amp. Leaves a little to be desired as a direct in guitar amp tonewise, but they are great mod platforms because you have 4 preamp triodes to play with (you only need 2 for a standard guitar input of just about any flavour you desire, as is each input uses 1, hence the low gain) or a great vocal /harp/mic'd acoustic amp (if you have a nice HiZ mic like a Shure Unydine era 57, or a lo to hi Z transformer/adapter).

my Rebel PA has a pair of 6V6's in it, and as far as I can tell, that's how it came. The transformer numbers match what's on the schematics for the 6L6 version even. I think Gar did a lot of flying by the seat of his pants. Mine works great as an acoustic amp, it's ultra-clean.

 

[Granny Gremlin]

my Rebel PA has a pair of 6V6's in it, and as far as I can tell, that's how it came. The transformer numbers match what's on the schematics for the 6L6 version even. I think Gar did a lot of flying by the seat of his pants. Mine works great as an acoustic amp, it's ultra-clean.

We will never know for sure but it seems much more likely that a previous owner wanted a power drop. Even if vintage tubes (Gar didn't have Garnet - branded power tubes so no way to be sure those are the original tubes). Did you typo there cuz it only serves your point if you meant 6V6 transformers (otherwise you made my case for me). In any event the Txs for 6V6 and 6L6 Garnets were the same in the very early period (triangle chassis as a general rule). The tubes are also drop in replacements for each other (just rebias). Even though this amp case style was later than that, there may have been some overlap between new headshell and old trannies so its an academic debate at best, but I beleive I have a strong case vs just the 6V6s being vintage vs modern production.

As far as I have seen, the original (pre PA version) guitar/bass 90 series (model #) Rebels were indeed 6V6, but the PA head came later. I've only ever seen them with 6L6s, but maybe the very first ones (before the Tripper came out - that was a PA head only) and switched to 6L6s to differentiate it from the Tripper, but I am doubtful (the Rebel PA needed more power from the get go because the preamps are lower gain and even with 6L6s it was rough in anything but smaller venues; I suspect 6L6 from the start). Then the Guirtar/Bass Rebels moved up as well (model name changed to 100). The Tripper came relatively later (70, vs Rebel PA in 67) as a low cost alternative aimed at the garage jam market vs actual live show PA use (it's pretty much a stencil with a proper Garnet badge). To this end it did not even offer a reverb option until it's very last year of production (1975).

So if your Rebel is triangle chassis, I would be much more inclined to believe it was 6V6 from factory but since you say it looks the same as the pictured Tripper (early ones were also triangle chassis), it isn't (the headbox would be much shorter and I think diff knobs but not sure about that off the top of my head) and is therefore a later one and therefore prob 6L6 stock. That newer chassis predates the Rebel 100s (which had a TX change to match).

Gar did a lot of custom stuff and continuously improved things without detailed documentation, sure, but lets not diss the cat like that - never by the seat of his pants; dude always had the plane in control ;P

 

[Frenchy99]

The first Rebel PA were PA90 with 6V6, shortly upgraded to PA100 with 6L6. Different transformers also.

 

[Paul Running]

Gar did a lot of custom stuff and continuously improved things without detailed documentation,

That doc stuff is very time consuming...especially the way he did it, those aren't cut and paste drawings and the BOMs are time robbers...more efficient with data entry clerks now.

 

[Lincoln]

We will never know for sure but it seems much more likely that a previous owner wanted a power drop. Even if vintage tubes (Gar didn't have Garnet - branded power tubes so no way to be sure those are the original tubes). Did you typo there cuz it only serves your point if you meant 6V6 transformers (otherwise you made my case for me). In any event the Txs for 6V6 and 6L6 Garnets were the same in the very early period (triangle chassis as a general rule). The tubes are also drop in replacements for each other (just rebias). Even though this amp case style was later than that, there may have been some overlap between new headshell and old trannies so its an academic debate at best, but I beleive I have a strong case vs just the 6V6s being vintage vs modern production.

As far as I have seen, the original (pre PA version) guitar/bass 90 series (model #) Rebels were indeed 6V6, but the PA head came later. I've only ever seen them with 6L6s, but maybe the very first ones (before the Tripper came out - that was a PA head only) and switched to 6L6s to differentiate it from the Tripper, but I am doubtful (the Rebel PA needed more power from the get go because the preamps are lower gain and even with 6L6s it was rough in anything but smaller venues; I suspect 6L6 from the start). Then the Guirtar/Bass Rebels moved up as well (model name changed to 100). The Tripper came relatively later (70, vs Rebel PA in 67) as a low cost alternative aimed at the garage jam market vs actual live show PA use (it's pretty much a stencil with a proper Garnet badge). To this end it did not even offer a reverb option until it's very last year of production (1975).

So if your Rebel is triangle chassis, I would be much more inclined to believe it was 6V6 from factory but since you say it looks the same as the pictured Tripper (early ones were also triangle chassis), it isn't (the headbox would be much shorter and I think diff knobs but not sure about that off the top of my head) and is therefore a later one and therefore prob 6L6 stock. That newer chassis predates the Rebel 100s (which had a TX change to match).

Gar did a lot of custom stuff and continuously improved things without detailed documentation, sure, but lets not diss the cat like that - never by the seat of his pants; dude always had the plane in control ;P

What I've meant is I've seen amp schematics in Gar's book using the same transformer numbers for both 6V6 and 6L6 amps in the 45 & 90 series.
My rebel PA is a wedge chassis with the old style knobs, but unfortunately the tube sockets were not marked like they are in most (?) Garnets. No reverb either. Checking the bias is what lead me to believe this amp was originally 6V6 equipped. It also has a 6SN7 PI, which I think means it was an early model.

I think Gar drew up a schematic when he first designed each model of amp, and as you said was constantly making changes but never bothered to update the drawings. As long as they were close enough a competent tech could figure it out, he was probably happy. "As built" could vary.

 

[Granny Gremlin]

The first Rebel PA were PA90 with 6V6, shortly upgraded to PA100 with 6L6. Different transformers also.

I understand that this is confusing, but my G90PAR is and always was 6L6. It is also not early ( I am not sure the PA heads ever updated the model name or not; I am inclined to believe not for the following reasons). Judging by the knobs on mine (same as the tripper above, and I assume the 6V6 Rebel PA in question), it's post 74, so the model number should have been updated by then if it ever was. I have only seen "G100" rebels in the guitar/bass version.

And yes, the change to 100 including a TX change as I said earlier.

If the Rebel PA ever was 6V6, it would have been the earliest ones with the triangle chassis, which none of these are.