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Discussion Starter #6
Story has now been updated.

NOT a full wedding party, but months-young newlyweds and their friends going together to a birthday party.

Witnesses say the driver was traveling way too fast - 60mph one estimated, in a tourist town - and blew through a T-intersection before hitting an SUV in a shopping mall parking lot. He and his 17 passengers were killed plus two shoppers in the parking lot.

One moment of stupid carelessness...

Hug somebody today, because you can.
 

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News this morning said the limo has failed previous road tests also that the driver was NOT licensed to drive a limo which requires a specialty license ( I believe its a class 2 ) and when you look at the road not sure why or what he was thinking driving at the suggested speed he may have been driving.
 

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When my wife worked in hazardous workplace materials assessment, it seemed like every second day she came home shaking her head about an injury or fatality noted in a report where the victim (and occasionally the employer) did not observe regulations and safety standards. People seem to think safety regulations are there just to be a nuisance or "money grab". Sadly, many of them don't get to change their mind after they experience just why the regulations are in place.

As I've said before, much of the misery in the world begins with "I was just gonna...". Bad enough to lose friends and relatives so suddenly. Worse to have it also taint what should have been a happy day and event.
 

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And.... it's a Muslim owned company with questionable maintenance / licensing practices (ahem, Humboldt) but wait there's more...

This guy was one of the good guys, because as luck would have it, this guy was a secret FBI informant in the post 9/11 days.

We know this because like all FBI informants, it was easily determined by a cursory search of court records, because the FBI doesn't protect the identity of its informants.

Limo company in N.Y. crash owned by FBI informant who infiltrated Muslim groups after 9/11
 

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FBI informants generally have day jobs. His religion is of little relevance.
Apparently locals say the intersection was "accident-prone". What that means is not clear, based on news reports, but some intersections are pretty dangerous. That can be because of the volume or type of traffic they serve, but can also be due to weaknesses in design. I've lived beside one that regularly invited near-fatal collisions (usually on Saturday night, in the middle of SNL) and regularly pass through some where stop signs are overgrown or it is difficult to see oncoming traffic because of posts, hedges, and such.

Personally, I don't know what the hell a stretch limo is doing with a seating capacity of 19, including driver. Eight and a driver, fine - many minivans will do that - but 18? That's a bus. You also have to wonder what such a large number of boisterous people in a car does with respect to potentially distracting the driver. I'm certainly not blaming the victims, nor absolving the driver, but there are a whole lot of factors at play here, and a large number of decision points that make one want to ask "Why in the hell would you actually DO that?".

But like I said, a lot of misery begins with "I'm just gonna...". Humans are not great judges of probability. So much tragedy results. So much.
 

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You're missing the point about the whole story.

In today's social climate, one's faith will potentially play a large role in the public backlash to tragedy. Danforth comes to mind.

How convenient then that the MSM somehow finds out that the driver of the limo was an FBI informant to preemptively counter the inevitable public outrage by trying to portray the owner in a sympathetic or even admirable light.

I would imagine that being an informant is a dangerous game and that the FBI should go to great lengths to protect these people's identities.
Hence it is odd that the MSM got ahold of this private info.



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Am I the only one here wondering why whoever agreed to do the after-market conversion to the vehicle agreed to do it? I understand that businesses operate under the principle of the customer always being right, but they also have professional obligations to know and abide by safety codes. So "Hey, they asked for it, they paid me, and I did it for them" doesn't hold much water.

That said, at this point we have been provided with little to no information about the nature of the factors that fall under the heading of "failed safety inspection". Could be not enough seatbelts for full capacity. Could be emissions. Could be roadworthiness or braking capacity. Could be something that the auto-body shop should have either tended to or refused to do. Could be something that was the responsibility of the fleet owner. Presently we're in the dark.

I'm confident the coroner's inquest will make a number of recommendations to avoid whatever caused this in future. A damn shame that these 20 people had to be "data" for such inquests.
 

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Reports are saying the owner of the limo was an FBI informant.
With the ability to sniff modern telecom and data, this probably applies to the majority of people - if not 100%.
 

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Am I the only one here wondering why whoever agreed to do the after-market conversion to the vehicle agreed to do it? I understand that businesses operate under the principle of the customer always being right, but they also have professional obligations to know and abide by safety codes. So "Hey, they asked for it, they paid me, and I did it for them" doesn't hold much water.

That said, at this point we have been provided with little to no information about the nature of the factors that fall under the heading of "failed safety inspection". Could be not enough seatbelts for full capacity. Could be emissions. Could be roadworthiness or braking capacity. Could be something that the auto-body shop should have either tended to or refused to do. Could be something that was the responsibility of the fleet owner. Presently we're in the dark.

I'm confident the coroner's inquest will make a number of recommendations to avoid whatever caused this in future. A damn shame that these 20 people had to be "data" for such inquests.
"Stretching limos" is nothing new - but it does put a strain on everything mechanical, from steering to braking to suspension. 18 passengers is a ton and a half of cargo. Add that to an already much heavier vehicle than stock and there is a recipe for trouble.
 
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