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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
A 2x4 sounds really good!!
Imagine if every guitar increased in price like 2x4s in the last year
I'm not sure i really understand.
No one called you foolish, that really would be foolish as you say but trying to figure out why people are willing to pay inflated prices for merchandise is not something you are ever going to put a finger on, hence the turn of phrase.

It isn't like any of these guitars got better with age, or changed from what they were. People just want them and the folks that want them have more money than the folks that use to want them or at the least have enough money to make folks not want them anymore.

I traded an old 5350 for 12 Bitcoin back in the way back, so I understand there can be a win, but that does not detract from the fact that a things value is not tied to its worth. Bitcoin has no value, but it has a whole lot of worth.
We both agree, the market determines value not inputs. Its the same as most other assetts. Where we disagree is in the part where you think its foolish to try and figure that future value out. You're either good at it, or you're not. Im imagining your view on it would be determined by your experience trying. I happen to be pretty good at it from time to time but regardless I find great interest and enjoyment in doing it. Thats hardly foolish. Its part of the hobby for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Simply put, people charge what the market will bear. The proof is in the final purchase price.

The kicker to me is that I waffled on buying one of those Washburn Dimes when they could be had for $450 on eBay. Or a Washburn HM series for $250. Good luck getting those prices now.
The Korean Dean versions are dirt cheap compared to these Wasburns right now. Same License, same body style, same hardware, same factory. Pretty much the same guitars under a different brand. This is sort of what got me intrigued to begin with. I think if the Washburns are commanding those prices now the Deans will be next.
 

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There was a day when a scrap yard would give $50 for one of these. lol
 
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
There was a day when a scrap yard would give $50 for one of these. lol
Ya man. And some guys took the $50 gladly, and some knew better.
 

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The Korean Dean versions are dirt cheap compared to these Wasburns right now. Same License, same body style, same hardware, same factory. Pretty much the same guitars under a different brand. This is sort of what got me intrigued to begin with. I think if the Washburns are commanding those prices now the Deans will be next.
I have a Washburn N3 -- a Korean Nuno. It's modded a bit, but given what the N2s go for now, I am sitting on a potential gold mine.
 

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Tomato, potato.
Okay, so everything is made in Korea but screwed together in Germany. I’d say that’s way more “made in Korea” than it is “made in Germany”.
Where ever they are made, that are both designed and built to a quality standard that has made them a common tool for some seriously world class musicians.

Just my opinion but I think that country of origin is an absurd factor on which to base the value of an instrument. Quality and utility (and sometimes scarcity) should really be the only considerations.
 

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Where ever they are made, that are both designed and built to a quality standard that has made them a common tool for some seriously world class musicians.

Just my opinion but I think that country of origin is an absurd factor on which to base the value of an instrument. Quality and utility (and sometimes scarcity) should really be the only considerations.
yet country of origin is part of how we collectively decide if something is “good” before it even hits the market. Thats been consumerism for decades.
 

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Where ever they are made, that are both designed and built to a quality standard that has made them a common tool for some seriously world class musicians.

Just my opinion but I think that country of origin is an absurd factor on which to base the value of an instrument. Quality and utility (and sometimes scarcity) should really be the only considerations.
I don’t want to derail this thread because there have been countless discussions on many forums, but…

You’re 100% correct that where an instrument is made is only one factor in determining price/value. Just TELL ME WHERE IT’S MADE!!!!

Duesenberg won’t. Even the information earlier in this thread isn’t actually from the company. It’s just some dude on a guitar forum.

Watch…
“Duesenberg bodies and necks are made in Korea, the hardware is hand-hammered by dwarves in an underground cave somewhere off the coast of New Zealand, and the pickups are made by captured aliens in a sweatshop located at Area 51. Everything is teleported to Germany where it’s assembled by naked supermodels (so the buttons on their clothes won’t scratch the instruments).”

That’s just as accurate as the previous info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Just my opinion but I think that country of origin is an absurd factor on which to base the value of an instrument. Quality and utility (and sometimes scarcity) should really be the only considerations.
That sums up my opinion perfectly. Its often overly simplistic, sometimes faintly racist and IMO soon to be a relic of the past. In the 80s-90s a lot of guitar players thought cheaper Japanese guitars were inferior to US models meanwhile much the worlds best audio technology, some of the best cars and nearly all of the worlds best photography lenses and cameras were being made there and none of those industries had the same views of Japanese origin being inferior. Later on MIJ became a selling point for guitars and their values finally came in to line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
yet country of origin is part of how we collectively decide if something is “good” before it even hits the market. Thats been consumerism for decades.
No one asks where their cellphone, laptop or Television is made. Most mid range and lots of high end Camera equipment shifted from Japan to China and people dont seem to care. The quality is the same. I think country of origin dictating value is pretty unique to the guitar industry.
 

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No one asks where their cellphone, laptop or Television is made. Most mid range and lots of high end Camera equipment shifted from Japan to China and people dont seem to care. The quality is the same. I think country of origin dictating value is pretty unique to the guitar industry.
chuckles in car enthusiast

I also think everyone knows that their electronics are Chinese because theres no major competing country of manufacture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
chuckles in car enthusiast

I also think everyone knows that their electronics are Chinese because theres no major competing country of manufacture.
Somewhat true of cars, except for its more Brand related than country of origin. They dont make Porsches in Germany and Korea.
Further remember when you could buy 75 Nissan 280z for 1/3rd the price of a same year Corvette? Now its the exact opposite.


Also its certainly not true that electronics are all made in China. In fact... Samsung has mobile phone manufacturing facilities in six countries: Vietnam, China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, and South Korea. Samsung also has manufacturing facilities in other countries. Samsung mobile phones are manufactured in Vietnam to a high degree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Possibly this applies to much of the musical instrument industry in general?
Maybe. I think what makes guitars so susceptible to this is the fact that the 2 big US brands had to start manufacturing out of country to keep up with low cost/high quality imports. This created the perception that US brand import models were inferior and therefore those countries outputs were inferior by nature.
 

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I don’t want to derail this thread because there have been countless discussions on many forums, but…

You’re 100% correct that where an instrument is made is only one factor in determining price/value. Just TELL ME WHERE IT’S MADE!!!!

Duesenberg won’t. Even the information earlier in this thread isn’t actually from the company. It’s just some dude on a guitar forum.

Watch…
“Duesenberg bodies and necks are made in Korea, the hardware is hand-hammered by dwarves in an underground cave somewhere off the coast of New Zealand, and the pickups are made by captured aliens in a sweatshop located at Area 51. Everything is teleported to Germany where it’s assembled by naked supermodels (so the buttons on their clothes won’t scratch the instruments).”

That’s just as accurate as the previous info.
What's more important: that they tell you their exact manufacturing process or that they tell you that Vince Gill plays one (and sometimes two) or their guitars at every concert? Vince Gill has a wonderful collection of instruments and his live show is remarkably well crafted with about a 9 piece band so they can recreate the sound of his recordings. As far as I can tell, he always uses his Duesenberg for a couple songs. I don't think he cares where it's built/assembled. He just cares about the job it does.
 

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yet country of origin is part of how we collectively decide if something is “good” before it even hits the market. Thats been consumerism for decades.
Even in the guitar market, that really only applies to a small percentage of the market. No one complains that Sadowsky archtops are built in Asia and they sell for $5600 to $6500 US.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
Even in the guitar market, that really only applies to a small percentage of the market. No one complains that Sadowsky archtops are built in Asia and they sell for $5600 to $6500 US.
Not only does no one complain but I bet Asian guitar players looking to buy them on Reverb are willing to pay a premium for one vs a similar US model.


...Back in the mid 90s I was looking to buy my first decent guitar, a telecaster. As a young man I was pretty broke but determined. I headed to the Captains Pawnshop in Vancouver and found a Squire tele in the colour I was looking for, just like Ralph Machio had in Crossroads. $250, after all it was just a Squire, right? Fast forward 5 years with advancements in the internet and I came to learn more about it. It was a MIJ 1983 JV series 52 reissue. No one cared back when I bought it but now they were like gold. It was my first ever listing on Ebay in 2002 and I had so much interest from people trying to send me personal offers telling me to close the auction I did. $1000 cash in the mail and I shipped it out to NS. This taught me a valuable lesson about percieved quality and value in guitars...
Ever since I've been the Champ! 🕶
 
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