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@teleboli definitely speaks the truth! This could be a neat place for those who like to make "jazz noises" to exchange noise ideas and for beginners to get their feet wet. I'm gonna be presumptuous and post a chart I found for Art Farmer's version of Days of Wine and Roses (standards, standards, standards!). O have found at least one error (I think an A should be a Bb but I'll mention it in the chart post). I'll tab out the Mickey Baker type voicings, the Hall-like shell voicings I worked out for some of them last night amd perhaps part of my embarassingly bad solo arrangement. People can then add their own thoughts, figures etc. and we'll see where it goes from there. Don't be shy; I truly think everyone can contribute SOMETHING even if it's just a strum pattern idea.

@greco Assuming your serious, the general idea of an inversion is taking a chord triad and replacing the root with the 5th or 3rd. I imagine that's overly simplified and you could do it with other intervals depending on the voicing (9ths or 7ths for example). For C major you would take C-E-G (root, 3rd, 5th) and then put the G on the bottom making it G-E-C. I think that's first inversion? There are likely also more rules but that's my limited understanding lol
Not exactly, g-e-c would be a permutation technically, I think... inverting usually means taking the top note and putting it on the bottom, or taking the bottom note and putting it on top, so C major root position is ceg, first inversion is egc, 2nd inversion is gce. And you can do this for 4-part as well
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Not exactly, g-e-c would be a permutation technically, I think... inverting usually means taking the top note and putting it on the bottom, or taking the bottom note and putting it on top, so C major root position is ceg, first inversion is egc, 2nd inversion is gce. And you can do this for 4-part as well
You're quite right! See previous post about lack of coffee lol
 

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@Trevor Giancola Apologies for spelling your last name incorrectly in my earlier post (it is now spelled correctly). I was tired last evening when trying to come up with a long list of musicians I listen to.

I never thought I'd see a thread about jazz be so popular in this forum. What a pleasant surprise!
 

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I'm no expert and probably have no business posting this, but I also don't want to be holding out on what I've learned in case it's helpful. Apologies in advance. This is going to be long.

One way to get started with something jazz-like is to pick two chords, say two minor 7 chords a minor 3rd (4 frets) apart or a half step (1 fret) apart and change chords every 2 or 4 bars. Use the vocabulary you have, be it minor pentatonic, dorian, minor scales etc. As your vocabulary builds, you can do fancier stuff.

I can share a bit about how I learned to tackle a song if that helps. Others who are more knowledgeable can chime in if I'm off base.

Step one is to analyze the song and figure out what's going on. This was the hardest thing for me at the beginning because I didn't understand how the harmony moved. Everything is about tension and resolution in jazz. Chord progressions are usually targeting certain key centers and those key centers tend to change. If you can map out where the key centers are in a song, you'll have a road map for the song, which will come in handy for soloing.

Also, there's often a common thread in a song. For instance, if it's in C major, then how do all the key changes relate to C major? Can you get away with swapping out a few notes here and there to navigate the changes? This doesn't always apply, but I try to remind myself to find the thread, because I often miss the forest for the trees.

"Hearin' the Changes" by Jerry Coker is a book that was recommended to me. It explains the common and unusual chord progressions in jazz.

Step two is to memorize the song, that is: the chord, melody and rhythm. Listen to
recordings because sometimes there's more than one version of a melody. The one in the fake book might not be the right one. A lot of standards are taken from old show tunes. Basically jazz musicians were improvising over the pop music of the day. But they "jazzified" the chord changes by inserting a lot of ii-V-I's for playing purposes.

Figure out how you want to comp, rhythmically. Simpler is better at this point. Also, you don't have to get fancy with chord extensions when you're just learning a song. Bring in the metronome and test your memorization. Drop the metronome bpm by half and treat the click like a snare on beats 2 and 4. This helps with learning how to swing. Eliminate the click on beat 2 if your time is really good.

You can also use backing tracks like Abersold or the iReal Pro phone app. But it's good to spend time just playing to a click. It forces you to hear the changes in your head.

Step three is where you start taking steps towards improvising. More advanced players would probably skip this step, but I still find it helpful. One way to get up and running quickly is to use the major or minor scale of the key center that's being targeted. Start really simple, embellish on the main melody. Try out chromatic notes here and there. You can also try out major and minor pentatonics as well as the blues scale. Because you've mapped out the key centers you'll know when to change keys. Always feel free to loop sections of the song that are tricky.

The other thing you can do is play the corresponding arpeggios over each chord in quarter notes, eighth notes, triplets and sixteenth notes. But the catch is: wherever you are, ascending or descending, you need to immediately switch to the first available note of the next chord/arpeggio. This is a great exercise that never really goes away. You may find it easier to start with sixteenth notes first if you're not as comfortable with the arpeggios. Start slow and practice this in the same way that you practice comping, with the click on beats 2 and 4. You can also do something similar with scales.

Step four is where you start using the song as a vehicle for other stuff you've learned. Maybe you want to start using the altered scale or diminished arpeggios or what have you. Maybe there's a new lick, harmonic device or technique you've learned. Or perhaps you want to reharmonize it entirely. There's really no end to this part. The songs in your repertoire can always be revisited.

Sorry, this turned out to be really long. I'm definitely no expert. I'm just passing along some of what I learned. If I actually practiced like this regularly, I might be half decent!
 

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One way to get started with something jazz-like is to pick two chords, say two minor 7 chords a minor 3rd (4 frets) apart or a half step (1 fret) apart and change chords every 2 or 4 bars. Use the vocabulary you have, be it minor pentatonic, dorian, minor scales etc. As your vocabulary builds, you can do fancier stuff.
WOW...Great post!
I learned a lot from your explanations.

At this point, I am doing similar to what I quoted above.
This was the hardest thing for me at the beginning because I didn't understand how the harmony moved. Everything is about tension and resolution in jazz. Chord progressions are usually targeting certain key centers and those key centers tend to change. If you can map out where the key centers are in a song, you'll have a road map for the song, which will come in handy for soloing.
This was very helpful. I didn't know about the progressions targeting key centres and that the centres change.

Trying to learn to play jazz on the guitar at my age (along with my limited confidence and playing skills) feels like I'm trying to climb Mount Everest ...walking backwards...barefoot...with a 200 lb. backpack...in shorts...during a snow storm.

But...I love the complex and unusual sounds of the chords that I am exploring for the first time.
 

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i'd like to learn but not sure what i have to contribute for a group like that so it would be great to be part of the class and maybe over time decide if I've got the ability and nerve to offer something

if it's ok to hang around the edges to begin with I'm interested

j
 

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I'm no expert and probably have no business posting this, but I also don't want to be holding out on what I've learned in case it's helpful. Apologies in advance. This is going to be long.

One way to get started with something jazz-like is to pick two chords, say two minor 7 chords a minor 3rd (4 frets) apart or a half step (1 fret) apart and change chords every 2 or 4 bars. Use the vocabulary you have, be it minor pentatonic, dorian, minor scales etc. As your vocabulary builds, you can do fancier stuff.

I can share a bit about how I learned to tackle a song if that helps. Others who are more knowledgeable can chime in if I'm off base.

Step one is to analyze the song and figure out what's going on. This was the hardest thing for me at the beginning because I didn't understand how the harmony moved. Everything is about tension and resolution in jazz. Chord progressions are usually targeting certain key centers and those key centers tend to change. If you can map out where the key centers are in a song, you'll have a road map for the song, which will come in handy for soloing.

Also, there's often a common thread in a song. For instance, if it's in C major, then how do all the key changes relate to C major? Can you get away with swapping out a few notes here and there to navigate the changes? This doesn't always apply, but I try to remind myself to find the thread, because I often miss the forest for the trees.

"Hearin' the Changes" by Jerry Coker is a book that was recommended to me. It explains the common and unusual chord progressions in jazz.

Step two is to memorize the song, that is: the chord, melody and rhythm. Listen to
recordings because sometimes there's more than one version of a melody. The one in the fake book might not be the right one. A lot of standards are taken from old show tunes. Basically jazz musicians were improvising over the pop music of the day. But they "jazzified" the chord changes by inserting a lot of ii-V-I's for playing purposes.

Figure out how you want to comp, rhythmically. Simpler is better at this point. Also, you don't have to get fancy with chord extensions when you're just learning a song. Bring in the metronome and test your memorization. Drop the metronome bpm by half and treat the click like a snare on beats 2 and 4. This helps with learning how to swing. Eliminate the click on beat 2 if your time is really good.

You can also use backing tracks like Abersold or the iReal Pro phone app. But it's good to spend time just playing to a click. It forces you to hear the changes in your head.

Step three is where you start taking steps towards improvising. More advanced players would probably skip this step, but I still find it helpful. One way to get up and running quickly is to use the major or minor scale of the key center that's being targeted. Start really simple, embellish on the main melody. Try out chromatic notes here and there. You can also try out major and minor pentatonics as well as the blues scale. Because you've mapped out the key centers you'll know when to change keys. Always feel free to loop sections of the song that are tricky.

The other thing you can do is play the corresponding arpeggios over each chord in quarter notes, eighth notes, triplets and sixteenth notes. But the catch is: wherever you are, ascending or descending, you need to immediately switch to the first available note of the next chord/arpeggio. This is a great exercise that never really goes away. You may find it easier to start with sixteenth notes first if you're not as comfortable with the arpeggios. Start slow and practice this in the same way that you practice comping, with the click on beats 2 and 4. You can also do something similar with scales.

Step four is where you start using the song as a vehicle for other stuff you've learned. Maybe you want to start using the altered scale or diminished arpeggios or what have you. Maybe there's a new lick, harmonic device or technique you've learned. Or perhaps you want to reharmonize it entirely. There's really no end to this part. The songs in your repertoire can always be revisited.

Sorry, this turned out to be really long. I'm definitely no expert. I'm just passing along some of what I learned. If I actually practiced like this regularly, I might be half decent!
Lots of good points here.

This thread needs a video!

Here's a chap who basically plays in the style I aspire to. I've taken some lessons from him. Great guy. One solo and one with his trio.


 

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I forgot to mention... the blues! The blues is huge in jazz and a good number of jazz tunes are blues changes. Jazzing up your blues is also a great place to start.

Also, listening to jazz is way more fun if you've actually heard a song before. To start, if you can keep the main melody in your head while listening to a solo, then you'll have a deeper appreciation of what's going on. For example, I'm familiar with the tune "Beautiful Love" that was so expertly played by Chris Whiteman in the example that @teleboli posted. So hearing what Chris plays just brings a smile to my face.
 

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I've been working on a notation for delving into how jazz-age harmonies work. Right now, I'm going through my band's charts and 1) converting the standard chords to number notation so that a chord's relationship to scale is emphasised. 2) positioning the chord symbols to reflect their relationship, in fifths, to the root. Thus: 1 is the baseline, 5 is slightly raised, 2 is raised twice, 6 is raised thrice and so-on.

I'm still revising as I work through the band chart book. The pdf below ends at "Coquette" because I've gotten that far. The current "standard" kicks in at "Avalon" as the notation develops. It very strongly shows passages of descending fifths when that's what is driving things. The next question is what is happening when fifths are not what is driving things (it seems to be mostly contrapuntal / voice-leading) and how do I show it?

 

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D'oh. Totally gapped the blues. Jazz evolved from blues. Tons of jazz/blues tunes of course and blues language can be inserted liberally into standards as well. And of course Rhythm Changes. D'oh. Tons of songs built on I've Got Rhythm of course but the A section of IGR is a 1,6,2,5. 1,6,2,5 is also a common turnaround in many, many standards as well.

So:

- know the jazz/blues form (different than a 1,4,5 blues)

- know the rc changes. B section as well for that matter.

- learn standards, standards, standards

There's also long and short 2,5,1's and TONS of stuff that haven't even been touched on yet, but that's what this thread is for.

Jim Soloway is another member here who is a great resource.
 

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Great idea ! I am not a jazman (Oh Gee ! Am I minimally a guitar player ?!), but I love standards and jazzy versions of popular pieces and movie themes of the fifties. Maybe I am totally lost, but I would try to follow anyway.
 
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I should add, if you haven't done so already, is to watch Ken Burn's Jazz documentary. As thorough an account of the complete history of the genre as I've seen.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I should add, if you haven't done so already, is to watch Ken Burn's Jazz documentary. As thorough an account of the complete history of the genre as I've seen.
My big problem with that doc is that it really buys the Stanley Crouch/Young Lions of the 80s narrative hook, line and sinker. I appreciate electric Miles, free stuff and fusion at least as much as bop :)
 

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Discussion Starter #38
332044

This chart is (ostensibly) for the version found on Art Farmer's album Interaction. Jim Hall is rad/the guitarist on that album. If you're picking through the melody, I'm 90% sure that the As in bars 4, 6, 20 and 22 should be Bbs. Someone with a better ear than me can confirm or deny that. If you don't read music and want to play along I can try to post tab but it might take a little while. Here are the chords as Mickey Baker (he of ye olde jazz guitar method fame) would spell them as well as some other useful variations:
Fmaj7= 1X221X OR X 8 10 9 10X
Eb7= X6868X OR 11X 11 12 11X
D7(b5b9)= 10X101110X OR 4X443X
D7/9= X54220 (someone must have a better one than this lol)
D7= 10X 10 11 10X OR X57575
G-7(minor 7th)= 3X333X OR X10X101110
Bb- = 688666 OR X13321
A-7= 5X555X OR X12X121312
D-7= XX0211 OR X5X565 OR 10X101010X
C7= X35353 OR 8X898X
Bb-7(b5)= 6X665X
F6= X810101010

Let me know how you get on and feel free to post alternate voicings, comping ideas etc. Sorry if this post is a bit of a gongshow, I scratched the voicings out over lunch.
 

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I'm in ✊
 
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