[drak10687]

Hi, first thread/first post:
So I've been playing acoustic guitar on and off for a while, and finally agreed to be in my friend's band. Now I have my friends electric guitar (some strat clone) and an Ibanez Jet King 1 on the way here. Of course, I also obviously needed an amp powerful enough to jam with a drummer and play in a small bar (since we are planning to do a small gig in a couple of months). The place where we practice had a 100 watt 2x12 Randall RG100SC for $450 tax included. I guess not the best deal I've seen on these, but not the worst either. However, I'm still pretty confused about amps, cabs, and amp heads concerning mostly the power in terms of "loudness" that you can get out of them...

My main question is how directly is wattage in an amp head related to "loudness". Because it seems to me that you would need at least 100watts, but preferably more for small venues... but I also recall people using 10-15watt amp heads on 4x12 stacks...

My follow up question is: would it make any sense at all, and would it work, if I hooked up a ...say 4x12 cab to my 100watt combo. My immediate answer to myself is "NO", as I've never heard of this on any forum... but since I'm pretty much a newb, might as well ask...

Thanks in advance

 

[Tarl]

Wattage and loudness are related but not as much as you think. Solid State watts are not as loud as Tube watts as far as amps go. I have found that 1 SS watt roughly equals 2 tube watts for loudness. With Tube amps there is only a 5% increase in volume between a 100 watt over a 50 watt. A 25 watt amp is about 15% less loud than a 100 watt. Also even a 5 watt tube amp can be very loud.....it depends on the cab etc... Personally I use a 50 watt Tube combo with a 2 x 12 cab and I have loads of volume on tap for practise and gigs. I,m no amp expert (you need Wild Bill), and maybe my numbers are,nt quite right on , but I think you can see what I mean.

 

[drak10687]

ok, thanks

I have found that 1 SS watt roughly equals 2 tube watts for loudness.

Though I think you mean that the other way around if you are trying say that tube amps are louder... but I got what you mean.


..But I would still like to know if it would make any sense hooking up a cab to my combo...

 

[EL34POWER]

Sure. I do. I use a Mesa 1x12" 3/4 open wide cab as an extension cabinet. I even hooked up to a Marshall 4x12 just to see. As long as the total impedance is respected you are fine. You will not get more volume though, you will get more dispersion.
FWIW a buddy of mine came over with his Marshall MGDFX100 something. I set it to a good crunch, and had to alomst dime it to get a band SPL level. The good thing is that it's pretty light compared to my 2203.

 

[ssdeluxe]

all good questions and replies.

I wouldn't hall that much gear with a combo and extension speakers, unless its really important to your sound and your enjoying it.

I have gigged with 15 watts perfectly fine (just kept the combo closer to me), 30-45 watts is more than plenty for the average gigs, I'm talkin the "glowin' bottles", I don't even look @ solid state for gtr, but to each his own.

I personal find the combos the easiest for gigging, but also enjoy swapping heads with a fav 1x12, 1x15, or 2x12 cab so you can mix and match if you have a few diff. type's of amps.

 

[EL34POWER]

all good questions and replies.

I wouldn't hall that much gear with a combo and extension speakers, unless its really important to your sound and your enjoying it.

I have gigged with 15 watts perfectly fine (just kept the combo closer to me), 30-45 watts is more than plenty for the average gigs, I'm talkin the "glowin' bottles", I don't even look @ solid state for gtr, but to each his own.

I personal find the combos the easiest for gigging, but also enjoy swapping heads with a fav 1x12, 1x15, or 2x12 cab so you can mix and match if you have a few diff. type's of amps.

Well you know what! When i heard that SS marshall i went

Wait a minute! If you tweek it right and don't ask it to sound like a full stack it sounds pretty damn nice.

 

[ssdeluxe]

my aplogies, I didn't intend to pee pee on the ss likers, just my opinion...

I don't deny the ss marshall sounds great when tweaked by someone with a great ear. a hundred ways to good tone ! Just for me, the touch sensativity found in tube amps just makes it more "alive" as opposed to how transistors respond to dynamics and attack..of course imho.

 

[Hamm Guitars]

This really depends on what type of music you are playing.

A 100 Watt SS amp will 'outrun' a 4000 Watt PA - with ease.

A loud guitar amp on stage is amplified through the PA via all open mics on the stage. So even if you have a small vocal PA, a portion of your available power will be working to amplify what may be an allready 'too loud' sound source. The less than ideal mic placments and EQing applied to your drum and other mics can make this 'bleeding' guitar sound quite horrendous, especially on a small stage.

A boost channel to bring you to the top of the mix when needed would be the feature that would be usefull if you are 'mixing yourself' from the stage.

I have nothing against loud guitars, but everything has its place in the mix and a constantly in your face sreaming guitar is not allways appropriate. I would bet you would have no problem with a 25-30 watt tube amp or a 50 watt SS amp in just about any situation.

My answer to your follow up question is yes. Adding an additional cabinet and placing it away from the original cabinet so that you have two sound sources as opposed to one is extreamly advantagous if you are mixing yourself off stage. It is allowing you to disperse your volume over a wider area and adds a some protection from you tearing the heads off of the poor souls that might be sitting directly in the line of fire of your amp.

 

[kat_]

Also remember that more sensitive speakers will sound louder with the same amp. I know it's obvious when you think about it, but a lot of people focus on only the wattage of the amp, and forget about the speakers.

 

[EL34POWER]

my aplogies, I didn't intend to pee pee on the ss likers, just my opinion...

I don't deny the ss marshall sounds great when tweaked by someone with a great ear. a hundred ways to good tone ! Just for me, the touch sensativity found in tube amps just makes it more "alive" as opposed to how transistors respond to dynamics and attack..of course imho.

No offence taken.. I was saying "you know what" out of surprise of what i heard. :food-smiley-004:

 

[drak10687]

Thanks for the good response guys... clears some things up.

I have another inquiry to make tough. If we were to play at a place where the all the soundwork is up to us, would it be sufficient to just have the amps which correspond to their instruments, and to the mic? Also, what exactly is meant by "PA"? Are those speakers made for mics, or just a set of ordinary "music speakers"?

Thanks again