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I finally went the two amp route on stage last night, for the first time. It was a wonderful sonic experience.

We were playing without a drummer, so I wanted to fill more of the freqency band so we didn't sound thin. I stacked my 1x12 Epiphone Valve Junior halfstack on top of my 1x15 Super Reverb (Vibroverb Clone) and jumpered the inputs. The 5 watter on the edge of breakup gave me some sonic space in the mids, but wasn't loud enough to be really noticed over the 45W underneath it. Until I stomped on a tube screamer for a lead boost and the Junior took charge for my solos.

Next step is to make me delay, reverb, or phaser of the stereo variety and do a 2 amp rig right. I always take the little valve jr head as a backup to any gigs, so an extra cabinet isn't much extra load to carry.
 

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I always consider stereo to involve the amps being seperated, not just running two of them. I think what you did was just mono with 2 amps?

Either way, yes do get stereo reverb aaand delay pedals and go to town.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I always consider stereo to involve the amps being seperated, not just running two of them. I think what you did was just mono with 2 amps?

Either way, yes do get stereo reverb aaand delay pedals and go to town.
Exactly, I went double mono and it was great. Stereo must be better.
 

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When I had two Traynor YCV50s I'd put them in the corners of the room and feed them with a chorus pedal.... the stereo effect was amazing.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 

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Good thinking.

I've often run 2 amps with a Radial ABY pedal. One clean with a hint of reverb, the other clean/dirty with FX in front of it. Both with their own channel switch for the possibility of their own additional dirt. It's a bit more tap dancing than I prefer, but the tone shaping on the fly is much more satisfying. Trouble is, I require a decent sound check to set my initial levels to my satisfaction, and that isn't always an option. What I like about the set-up specifically is the always clean amp that allows me great note definition no matter how much dirt I'm using from the other.
 

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When run in stereo, the chorus just created stereo depth as opposed to the 80s warble.
I would probably agree with you but I haven't used true chorus in this application. One of the few times I've done this I used a DejaVibe in chorus mode on one amp and nothing on the other, sounded fantastic.
 

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agreed, thats my go to for most everything but a decent vibe on one amp gives some great sonic separation and layering, you can basically see the sound in 3 dimensions and you're completely sober
The 3D effect is precisely what the chorus does.

Stereo ping pong delay is pretty awesome too

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Jeff Beck ran a dual-amp arrangement like what you used for a period, with a lower-wattage Fender, like a Princeton or Champ, in conjunction with a Twin or similar. As I understood it, the intent was similar to yours: push the mids hard into breakup, via the smaller amp, while maintaining cleaner low end via the larger one. As someone pointed out, this is really more of a blended dual-amp arrangement, rather than anything one might call "stereo".

We'll get to the sonic possibilities in a moment, but there are a number of caveats top consider with respect to going stereo.
  • Obviously the weight, and cost, of extra gear.
  • The frequent impossibility of either situating oneself, or audience-members in "the sweet spot", where the luscious stereo can be heard.
  • The tendency for some forms of stereo pedals to cancel out "in air".
  • The extra stage space required.
  • Bandmates each hearing something different.
  • The distraction that can result from two very different sounds coming from two different locations. As I've likely noted here on several occasions, the only time I've ever stepped up to a mic and completely blanked on lyrics was a time when I had a slow Leslie to my left and a separate amp with a slow tremolo on my right.
I have a couple of smaller amps that allow me to play with stereo in a convenient form in my home. I also have a cheap Fender Sidekick SK20 Chorus, with a pair of separately powered 8" speakers that functions as a poor-man's JC120, providing the wet signal on one channel and the dry on the other. Of course, with a cab sized for two 8" speakers, the wet/dry separation requires situating oneself rather close to find the sweet spot. One good feature of the amp, however, is that it has a stereo effect loop, so I can do things like insert the wet part of a phase-shifter into one channel, and leave the other one dry, or even a pair of tremolos or phase shifters. Sounds marvelous, although limited in terms of where the sweet spot is for really enjoying it.

Some stereo effects are too extreme. The Ibanez Flying Pan was a shortlived unit that combined a simple 4-stage phase-shifter with an autopan, and separate sweep rates for each. Fascinating "psych-a-duci" idea on paper, but you couldn't leave the thing on for more than 30 seconds before thinking "Okay, that's enough. I'm getting nauseated." The contrast and degree of activity between the two outputs was just too distracting. Although, if one used a single effect at a time, and only one output at a time, it was serviceable as a phaser or tremolo.

When it comes to stereo modulation effects, I think quadrature LFOs are underutilized. A quadrature LFO provides outputs that are only 90 degrees out of phase, rather than complete inverses of each other. More complex ones will give you LFO outputs of 90, 180, and 270-degree lag. Here's a demo of various phase manipulations using a software-generate quadrature function:

Dan and ****, over at TPS had some segments on three-amp wet/dry/wet arrangements, that sound pretty righteous.
 

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No, he's right. Delay and reverb are where it's at. Thank me later.
Delay on a stereo setup with some spread will often create a chorus type effect. Or mild flanging. Especially if you are not in the sweet spot and especially if the effect isnt exactly the same on both sides.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Jeff Beck ran a dual-amp arrangement like what you used for a period, with a lower-wattage Fender, like a Princeton or Champ, in conjunction with a Twin or similar. As I understood it, the intent was similar to yours: push the mids hard into breakup, via the smaller amp, while maintaining cleaner low end via the larger one. As someone pointed out, this is really more of a blended dual-amp arrangement, rather than anything one might call "stereo".

We'll get to the sonic possibilities in a moment, but there are a number of caveats top consider with respect to going stereo.
  • Obviously the weight, and cost, of extra gear.
  • The frequent impossibility of either situating oneself, or audience-members in "the sweet spot", where the luscious stereo can be heard.
  • The tendency for some forms of stereo pedals to cancel out "in air".
  • The extra stage space required.
  • Bandmates each hearing something different.
  • The distraction that can result from two very different sounds coming from two different locations. As I've likely noted here on several occasions, the only time I've ever stepped up to a mic and completely blanked on lyrics was a time when I had a slow Leslie to my left and a separate amp with a slow tremolo on my right.
I have a couple of smaller amps that allow me to play with stereo in a convenient form in my home. I also have a cheap Fender Sidekick SK20 Chorus, with a pair of separately powered 8" speakers that functions as a poor-man's JC120, providing the wet signal on one channel and the dry on the other. Of course, with a cab sized for two 8" speakers, the wet/dry separation requires situating oneself rather close to find the sweet spot. One good feature of the amp, however, is that it has a stereo effect loop, so I can do things like insert the wet part of a phase-shifter into one channel, and leave the other one dry, or even a pair of tremolos or phase shifters. Sounds marvelous, although limited in terms of where the sweet spot is for really enjoying it.

Some stereo effects are too extreme. The Ibanez Flying Pan was a shortlived unit that combined a simple 4-stage phase-shifter with an autopan, and separate sweep rates for each. Fascinating "psych-a-duci" idea on paper, but you couldn't leave the thing on for more than 30 seconds before thinking "Okay, that's enough. I'm getting nauseated." The contrast and degree of activity between the two outputs was just too distracting. Although, if one used a single effect at a time, and only one output at a time, it was serviceable as a phaser or tremolo.

When it comes to stereo modulation effects, I think quadrature LFOs are underutilized. A quadrature LFO provides outputs that are only 90 degrees out of phase, rather than complete inverses of each other. More complex ones will give you LFO outputs of 90, 180, and 270-degree lag. Here's a demo of various phase manipulations using a software-generate quadrature function:

Dan and ****, over at TPS had some segments on three-amp wet/dry/wet arrangements, that sound pretty righteous.
Once I finish getting tolex and cloth on my Princeton Reverb clone, it will likely be a good mate to my Vibroverb. Vince Gill always ran a pair of Deluxe Reverbs as his stage rig, and I would too if I had them.
 

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I don't know how common it is, but some digital delays and digital multi-FX, with dual ins and outs, will provide stereo outs even with a mono in. I guess their working assumption is that most will run the pedal in mono, few end-users will attempt to use the pedal in full stereo, but a modest nucleus more will run a stereo out from a mono in. Back when I was beta-testing the Tone Core series for Line 6, I exchanged some e-mail notes with one of the programmers. He noted that, on the Echo Park, they found that the number of clock cycles required to provide full stereo implementation ate through a fresh 9v battery in less than the span of a stage set.( Pedalboard power was not as prevalent then, but I suspect they were more concerned about the ability of a typical Guitar Center salesperson to hand a pedal to a prospective customer to try out, without having to fish around for a suitable wallwart and an available outlet to plug it into. So being able to run off a battery was seen as a worthwhile goal to aim for. Their solution was to essentially pool the dual inputs, process, and differentially distribute the results to the two outputs, rather than treat each stream entirely differently. So the A output was a little different than the B output, even though the same parameters were applied to it (delay time, feedback, etc.). So rather than a simple boilerplate dry-out-this-jack-and-wet-out-the-other, the two outputs carried related but non-identical delay outputs. That appears to be true of the M5 modeller, and I suspect may also be true of some of the other modeller series (though I'd need confirmation of that).

On some of their pedals, the effect "moves". My Tone Core Liqui-Flange pans the flange across the two outputs. Though the Tone Core Otto Fiolter normally comes with a mono dock, if you plug the module into a stereo dock, there's an easter egg that Jeorge Tripps hipped me to. One of the settings is a so-called "Talking Filter", that sweeps one bandpass upwards and another downwards. Used in stereo, one filter comes out one output and the other output carries the other filter. The two filters appear to countersweep across the stereo field, such that the lower filter moves from left to right as it sweeps upwards, and the upper filter moves from right to left as it sweeps downward.

There is a LOT to play with in the world of stereo effects. Indeed, more than many players are likely aware of.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I don't know how common it is, but some digital delays and digital multi-FX, with dual ins and outs, will provide stereo outs even with a mono in. I guess their working assumption is that most will run the pedal in mono, few end-users will attempt to use the pedal in full stereo, but a modest nucleus more will run a stereo out from a mono in. Back when I was beta-testing the Tone Core series for Line 6, I exchanged some e-mail notes with one of the programmers. He noted that, on the Echo Park, they found that the number of clock cycles required to provide full stereo implementation ate through a fresh 9v battery in less than the span of a stage set.( Pedalboard power was not as prevalent then, but I suspect they were more concerned about the ability of a typical Guitar Center salesperson to hand a pedal to a prospective customer to try out, without having to fish around for a suitable wallwart and an available outlet to plug it into. So being able to run off a battery was seen as a worthwhile goal to aim for. Their solution was to essentially pool the dual inputs, process, and differentially distribute the results to the two outputs, rather than treat each stream entirely differently. So the A output was a little different than the B output, even though the same parameters were applied to it (delay time, feedback, etc.). So rather than a simple boilerplate dry-out-this-jack-and-wet-out-the-other, the two outputs carried related but non-identical delay outputs. That appears to be true of the M5 modeller, and I suspect may also be true of some of the other modeller series (though I'd need confirmation of that).

On some of their pedals, the effect "moves". My Tone Core Liqui-Flange pans the flange across the two outputs. Though the Tone Core Otto Fiolter normally comes with a mono dock, if you plug the module into a stereo dock, there's an easter egg that Jeorge Tripps hipped me to. One of the settings is a so-called "Talking Filter", that sweeps one bandpass upwards and another downwards. Used in stereo, one filter comes out one output and the other output carries the other filter. The two filters appear to countersweep across the stereo field, such that the lower filter moves from left to right as it sweeps upwards, and the upper filter moves from right to left as it sweeps downward.

There is a LOT to play with in the world of stereo effects. Indeed, more than many players are likely aware of.
I wish I could find a way to make my delay have stereo outs. I love it's tone, but I want that stereo option.
 

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My fx8 is mono in stereo out.
 
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