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I've heard some singers that are technically near perfect and I can't stand listening to them.
This is a constant annoyance on the song-writing forum. The guys who have perfect pitch try to turn it into the song-SINGERS forum like they are Simon Cowell on American Idol.

Their own songs and singing are nothing but vocal gymnastics, two-dimensional in meaning and showcasing their home studio skills.

Like you... my wife (not prompted by me in any way) can't listen to more than a minute of any of it. It's just annoying.

One guy actually criticized a blues/rock jam session by saying he couldn't hear the "s" in "curse" and the "t" in "hurt". I like the fellow who was singing, so I responded by criticizing the snob's punctuation in his post ( I was an editor for twelve years). I notice that I am banned from the site this morning. Lol.

But, back to the point, I don't need to be perfect. Just better!
 

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Mick Jagger has to be one of the worst singers in the world but man I love the stones. I've heard some singers that are technically near perfect and I can't stand listening to them.
Many would say Neil Young, Geddy are terrible.....a voice is such a personal thing, so complex.

People like what they like, but as you say, technical virtuosity is not the only element and maybe not even the most important element in what makes a "good" singer.
 

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But if you are tone deaf - if you can't hear 'in tune' from 'out of tune' - no coaching in the world is gonna help. You will always be off because your feedback loop is broken.
I have a friend who loves writing his own songs and he has this problem. The last time I talked to him he said that he was never singing again. I was sad. That can't be right...

I guess even pitch correction is only useful to a certain extent. I don't know if I should recommend it. Waste of time and money?
 

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I have a TC-Helicon Mic Mechanic Pedal which has pitch correction. I have it on the singers all the time without telling them. LOL It works but only if the correction required is not that much. When it's just a little bit off either flat or sharp, it does it's magic. But when the singing is bad, then I will have to bring up the correction at a high level which means, the person will start sounding like Cher or Britney. LOL I had it on someone who was not terribly awful but she was all stressed and nervous doing the audition and the pedal couldn't do anything about it.
 

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My wife was a good singer with a basement full of trophies and awards. But her hearing is bad now, so she has the TC Helicon Voice Play. Would that work about the same @Chito
 

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Many would say Neil Young, Geddy are terrible.....a voice is such a personal thing, so complex.

People like what they like, but as you say, technical virtuosity is not the only element and maybe not even the most important element is what makes a "good" singer.

I am a huge Neil Young fan. I tried to get my daughter in to Neil Young and she thought he was terrible and couldn't sing. My daughter is a fantastic singer in her own right (beautiful tone) but subscribes to the "American Idol" mentality. Her favorite singer is Reba McEntire, Miss "Over Singer" her self.
 

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@guitarman2 Funny, my daughter tried out for Canadian Idol in Winnipeg ("good but not what we're looking for"). She would never hurt her Dad but, I know she thinks I am a poor singer. 😄
 

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@guitarman2 Funny, my daughter tried out for Canadian Idol in Winnipeg ("good but not what we're looking for"). She would never hurt her Dad but, I know she thinks I am a poor singer. 😄
Yes my daughter tried out with the same results back about 15 years ago. I'm ok to be thought of as a poor singer by my daughter. I'm her lead player when she needs it. I've backed her up in a couple situations.
 

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My wife was a good singer with a basement full of trophies and awards. But her hearing is bad now, so she has the TC Helicon Voice Play. Would that work about the same @Chito
It should. I believe that has a Pitch Correction function. Start by making the correcion subtle and see if you will need more.
 

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I am no singer at all. Here is what I came believe about this.

There is apparently no secret : One has to educate and train his voice.
We were not singing at home...

I once was suggested Boss VE-5 to correct pitch.

But while some have a colorful nice tonal range, others (me !) can only deliver a dull voice even though they hit the right notes (not me !).

So, I do not sing...
I do not even know the key (neither my vocal range) I should try to sing on.

P.S. I was impressed to hear how Leonard Cohen's voice got bassier as he aged and gained some interesting tone.
 

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Mick Jagger has to be one of the worst singers in the world but man I love the stones. I've heard some singers that are technically near perfect and I can't stand listening to them.
I'm a huge Stones fan and I'm convinced that Mick Jagger took vocal coaching somewhere in the mid-80's. You can see a stark change in his live singing in that period. Pre-'86 - he would snarl, growl, grunt, and shout. Post-'88 he's much more refined. The guttural growl is completely gone. His technique is much better. Watch him on the 83 tour and then look up the Steel Wheels tour. It's like a different singer. My guess is during the 80's there when Mick tried to go solo and he did some collaborations with other artists (like Bowie) I think he got some advice and maybe his eyes opened to a few things about how other singers approach their voice and he did the same. And I mean it's clear he's done exercises to take care of his voice and use proper technique because he's in his late 70's and is one of the few vocalists of that age whose voice is still intact and quite strong. (For example, Paul McCartney sounds like a huffy puffy grandpa)
 

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I think singing is helped along by some amount of natural talent. However, I also think the ear (essential for hearing the right or wrong notes) and the muscles that make up our vocal box can be trained for pitch, tone, control and range.

Like many things in life this takes time in practice and training from someone who is capable of helping us grow.
 

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I carry a tune and sound good enough within my limitations - but no ones every gonna call me a great singer. I think it all starts with having an interesting tone and inflection that make your singing memorable. Stevie, Nicks, Tom Petty, Neil Diamond, even Neil Young. They are completely unique - but wouldn't get through the first round of American Idle.

For myself personally, as mentioned before I've found the best tool to be recording. You may think you killed a particular performance until you listen back and see where you chopped a line short, came off sharp/flat, ran out of breath or discover your falsetto is nails on a blackboard.
 

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Same as everything else. Practice. Lessons if you want to have a better/longer singing career.
C
 

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...
But if you are tone deaf - if you can't hear 'in tune' from 'out of tune' - no coaching in the world is gonna help. You will always be off because your feedback loop is broken.
I've been told by people who should know that if you can tell the difference between a statement and a question, you can learn to hear "in tune" from "out of tune". I have no doubt that this is true, though it can take a while.

Most of it is all about confidence, being able to get up in front of people and belt it out,
Yes. And no. A certain amount of confidence is required to sing well, but there is no shortage of very confident bad singers.

...
But, back to the point, I don't need to be perfect. Just better!
That's the only rational goal there is. :)

In an interview, Mick said he never took any lessons, but after 35 years of singing, hired a vocal coach.
More good reasons to hire a coach:
They can help you to prevent (further) injuring your vocal cords.
They can help to extend and/or maintain your vocal range.
 

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I need this thread.

I used to be able to tune a guitar to international pitch by ear. Now a tuner is a must. Though never a great singer, at least I could "carry a tune". Now when I listen to playback I can hear all kinds of pitch issues that I could not hear while singing. Not too bad if I am only singing and it has my full concentration, but soon as I am playing too... look out! Covid is suggesting a solo act, but my first attempts have been discouraging.

Too old, give up? I am seventy.

Use pitch correction? Ugh. Still, I do have it... never tried it.

Vocal coach? Not available.

Find a vocalist? Not much choice in this area.
Some people can sing and some can't carry a tune in a bucket.....nothing you can do about that. I listen to new songs on here and other places and go, "What the hell?" Doesn't sound like singing to me but Buddy Holly, Fleetwood Mac and Skynyrd still sound good.
 

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Practice a lot and practice some more. Sing in the car etc. If you have basic ability and your voice doesn’t sound too bad you can improve a lot by doing it all the time. Eventually it gets that you can hit correct notes unaccompanied without reference from your instrument and your voice is a lot stronger. Transpose so that the music fits your range. Figure out where your range is. And learn the fucking words so that you can wear the song and sing it like you believe; not everyone is a great singer but if you come across well people will generally be more forgiving. Nothing worse than someone reading lyrics from their phone and sqeaking about the big bad world and how their life is so behind. Practice a lot and practice some more. Think about breathing and focus on singing from your diaphragm.

I tried autotune once and did not like it and was also glad to find out that I don’t need it.

Got this about 5 years ago when I first started to sing; it’s not auto tune but made it a little easier to use my home PA. Now though with jams and open mics I just show up with a guitar and use whatever system they have although if it all starts up again I’m probably gonna bring my own mic or maybe one those jimmy hat covers that you can buy.

334967
 

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LOL, you're just trying to make an old guy feel good (and thanks, the cheque's in the mail).

IIRC, the Neumann U-87 was the second mike on the project.

Apologies......there is no internal filter in my brain that will prevent me from looking for a punchline.

On topic: I watched the 1983 Everly Brothers reunion concert on Prime last night. That was a masterclass in singing. Even their vibrato is in sync.
 
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