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So thats where my pet bear wondered off to..........
 

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Diesel Jeans and clothing would be pissed. Their summer clothing line is depending on it. The marketing is in place, "Global Warming Ready"
 

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"It's a beaut-i-ful-day-in-the-neigh-bor-hood-
A-beaut-i-ful-day-in-the-neigh-bor-hood-
Oh-shit-we-spent-all-that-money-on-that-dum-com-mer-ci-al
pleease-give-me-a-tax-write-off......."
:zzz:
 

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Thats nice, keep attacking the other side blindly. Keep telling the world we are all going to die unless we send billions to Africa. There are III sides to every story unless youre a global warming activist, then its only your opinion that has any relevance.........
 

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Why do you assume I am "attacking" the other side "blindly" ?

Why do you assume I am an "activist"?

There is no way you could have seriously considered or even read/watched the info in my post given your almost instant response. That seems like a blind attack to me.

TG


Accept2 said:
Thats nice, keep attacking the other side blindly. Keep telling the world we are all going to die unless we send billions to Africa. There are III sides to every story unless youre a global warming activist, then its only your opinion that has any relevance.........
 

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I've already watched the Denial machine. I am in Canada, and I do have a TV, and it does have the CBC. As for the others, should I really believe whatever I read on the internet? If you post a link to Zundel, should I consider all my beliefs wrong because he has a website that attacks them? Watch both movies, and the truth is somewhere there and its probobly in the middle............
 

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Accept2 said:
should I really believe whatever I read on the internet?
No, but you should actually read things first before dismissing them.

I'm getting out of this before it goes into a 1000 page thread. I already wasted a ton of energy on another board showing the methodological problems with many of the studies refuting global warming. All of it was consistently ignored and then yet another Al Gore attack emerged :confused-smiley-010

Suffice to say, when research is deemed "peer reviewed" but the author was one of the people who peer reviewed it, credibility is out the window. When research cites studies and data that don't actually exist, credibility is again out the window. When you claim CO2 isn't really a problem because life needs CO2, you are just constructing strawmen (we need water too, but if we drink too much of it we die: water intoxication).

Nobody can guarantee 100% that the data on global warming is being interpreted correctly. But science NEVER produces 100% consensus on any complex issue (thankfully, otherwise it would stagnate and become dogmatic); it is critical that other voices are heard and all research is evaluated. Yet to exploit science's critical reflexivity and scepticism as "proof" there is "no evidence" of global warming is just wrong. To show that oil companies are funding PR campaign's that exploit this "dis-sensus" is not a political left/right issue. It does raise important questions about contemporary mass media. On that note . . .

If you seriously want to research this, go to a university and start reading peer reviewed, academic journals. A very different picture will emerge. Are academics infallible? Of course not, but there are some very real dangers associated with global warming and C02 emissions that cannot simply be dismissed.

TG
 

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Was the end of the ice age the result of global warming? If the answer is yes, I believe global warming started long before man entered the equation. If the answer is no.......then I blame disco.
 

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That video's too long to watch. Can you sum it up for me?
:tongue:
 

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"Swallow it ALL, now!"

ne1roc said:
Was the end of the ice age the result of global warming? If the answer is yes, I believe global warming started long before man entered the equation. If the answer is no.......then I blame disco.
You've put your finger on a big part of the problem, Mr. Roc. Much of the environmental movement has become politicized and applies marketing tactics to get you to accept more than just the basic premise of global warming.

It's what I've long called the "Joe Witness" technique, based on reading some of those religious magazines they hand out. Every mag seemed to have a "scientific" article and every article seemed to have the same "logical" flow. They would start with something that pretty well everyone knew and agreed, like how the moon orbits the earth. Then they'd jump to how the earth orbits the Sun and how the Sun orbits around the centre of the Milky Way Galaxy and how this galaxy in turn has its own orbit...the reader usually is beyond his own knowledge by this point but has gotten used to nodding his head up and down. A bit more of "scientific" info that is over his head and ZAPPO! They hit him with a total non sequitur like "Christ is therefore our personal savior!"

Please note that I am not questioning any personal religious beliefs but rather a dubious method of trying to prove them. These articles were not scientific proofs at all but merely marketing ploys using science to "train" the ignorant into agreement.

How does this relate to that portion of the modern eco-movement? Well, global warming is one issue. The fault being Man, Nature or whatever is quite another. The Kyoto Accord being a fair and efficient vehicle to correct global warming is distinctly a third point that would depend on the other two being settled before its terms and parameters could be intelligently framed.

Yet if you follow the media it's all the same thing! We are flooded with info claiming global warming is happening and all the other points seem to be assumed as given! If you criticize the politics and methods of Kyoto then you must be a global warming denier who is trying to ensure that his grandkids fry!

How about this "creed"? Global warming may be real but I'm still not convinced of the causes and not knowing the causes makes it hard to know the best and most cost-efficient solutions. Meanwhile Kyoto looks like a leftwing guilt trip to transfer the hard-earned tax money of western citizens to Russia, China, India and third world nations supposedly to help them pay for their own modernization of anti-warming gas technologies. The worst flaws are that Kyoto exempts those three countries I've named, when they are perhaps the worst offenders on the planet and appear to be doing little or nothing but pocketing the money. Also, there is no mention of any audit trail for these monies. If you buy emission credits from the Sudan they can use it to buy all the guns and rocket launchers they want and no one would pay attention. Except for hundreds of thousands of poor souls in Darfur, of course.

After that UN "report" was issued a week or so ago I was stunned to hear a young lady reporter on CBC NewsWorld ranting at how "The Debate is over! All scientists everywhere agree! It's all a fact exactly as these guys say and we should do as they tell us!"

Obviously, she dropped science in the 3rd grade in favour of art courses. Later in her schooling to become a journalist she probably went to Queens or Ryerson. Fine schools but I've never heard of them as leaders in the hard sciences. Law, politics and journalism, rather. I haven't seen ANY reporter outside of The Discovery Channel who appeared to have ever studied more science than he or she needed to stuff a paper towel in a jar and germinate some bean seeds!

Oh well, environmentalism seems to be the new religion. Like with other religions, you can't debate with faith. You can only rant and argue.

Meanwhile, I'm more worried that Kyoto-based environmentalism is a distraction from other possible causes of global warming. I've read reports about the variability of solar radiation, that even other planets are showing signs of warming. If this is happening on Mars which has so little atmosphere what does that say about the effectiveness of taxing gas and making cars more expensive with emission controls here on Earth?

Or how about the effects of jet exhaust gases in the upper atmosphere? Apparently, gases emitted at 30,000 feet linger up there for years and help trap heat reflected from the surface. You have to google this one for yourselves because everywhere else it seems to be studiously IGNORED! I guess no one wants to contemplate losing the convenience of air travel so we have to dink around in other areas that may not be as significant but are an easier sell.

Are we going to impoverish ourselves fighting in the wrong areas and then when the real causes become painfully clear find ourselves too broke and tired to cope?

Meanwhile, I refuse to accept someone's viewpoint simply because it's popular. Or that he has a lot of "friends" with whiter coats than mine that agree with him. I'm perfectly aware that there are vast numbers of folks much smarter than me. This doesn't mean that I should swallow anything they say as gospel. If they are so smart then they should find it easy to give me a convincing argument that I can understand! If they try to hide behind their degrees or their social status then to me they are mere intellectual bullies and charlatans.

This old hippy believes that NO ONE has the right to DEMAND someone agree with them! If someone tries, you should just turn away.

Just because a lot of people liked Disco did not mean that disco guitarists were of the same calibre as Pat Travers or Frank Marino...
 

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Gw

The planet is always/has always been undergoing change.....including warming and cooling. In fact some scientists say that the pollution in the atmosphere is diminishing the effects of the sun.........GlobalWarming.
But, nobody can say that man is not a negative impact on the earth
 

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Actually this thread is doing very well. I posted the same 2 videos on a US forum, and I was accused twice of being a holocost denier. Yes, thats the WWII era genecide holocost. What the holocost has to do with global warming is beyond me, but it shows that some people will do anything to villinize the other side of the argument, rather than admit they have good points............
 

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Just a hint- learn to spell "holocaust" before you argue with someone about it. :tongue:

And in my opinion, this thread is as useless as arguing that George Bush is a terrible president to one of his rabid supporters. Neither side is going to listen to the other because they're not going to change thier minds.
 

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.........And thats why it will never get solved. I can see clear good ideas on both sides, why cant they? I figure if the activist side dropped Kyoto and the UN, they may actually get more support from the other side. You'd think that since Kyoto is 10 years old, it would be easy to do. For the "denier" side as theyre called, they really need to get organized better. They pretty much treat the whole thing like theyre dealing with UFOologists, and they simply dismiss them and dont put much effort into dealing with their thoughts..........
 

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The thing is, people that deny that global warming exists kind of ARE like UFOlogists. You can put data in front of them and they'll say that it's biased. Or wrong. Or they just choose to ignore it altogether because they can't come up with anything else.

It's like trying to convince a creationist that evolution exists. Or a conspiracy theorist that "Loose Change" is a gigantic load of uninformed crap. They just don't believe it and no amount of data will prove them othewise. There's no way they'll accept it.

That's frustrating to me. Science changes its mind all the time. Not because they're "flip floppers" or some stupid political term like that, but because they take new information and add it to what they know to create a clearer view. They're open to new information. In fact, I'd say they want it.

To me, the bottom line is that there are people out there that study the environment and global warming for a living. They're smart. Way smarter and more knowlegeable than you or I. Personally, I trust that they know what the frig they're talking about. And most of them think that humans have had an effect on global warming. Yes, yes, there are fluctuations and stuff. Please don't bust that stuff out. If you read what they're actually saying, it's not just that we're in a fluctuation, but it's higher than normal.

People thought the world was flat at one point. Or rode on a turtles back. And that the stars and sun revolved around the earth. Anyone that challenged that was considered a nutjob. Now, it's common knowlege that all of these things are wrong and that's thanks to science. I trust that the majority of scientists are searching for truth and not fame or any other stupid thing that would cause them to lose their objectiveness.

Accept- you have to admit, you're just as closed minded as any of the anti-global warming types. You claim to see both sides, but all one has to do is simply look at the title of this thread to see where you stand on it. It's not much better than some jackass in Florida, on experiencing one cold day, saying "Well, that's it- that Al Gore is a damn liar. Global warming is a load of crap!".
 

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All I want is the truth man. Give me the cold hard facts, what the world will look like in 10 years, not what it may look like in 50 years. Scare the crap out of us!

The problem we face right now are people like me who believe that alot of this stuff is about money. A reason to raise oil prices, or prices of manufactured products that are considered to be made safer for landfill. Corporations are the biggest problem of all. They capitalize on stuff like this and don't have a care in the world about the future of our planet.
 
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