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I was quite fond of the the Diamond Counter-Point Delay. The cool thing about a lot of these Diamond Delays (ML Jr, Quantum Leap, Counter-Point) is that the sampling is digital, but all of the filtering (the character of the repeats) is all analog. This makes for a some great sounding repeats.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Th is to everyone who chimed in! Now let’s thinker about all that! Cheers!
 

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My fave, now that the PT2399 chip is ubiquitous anyway, is DIY based on either the rebote or echo base circuits. I built 2 using the echo base PCB, one for me and one for a bud.

366253



it has an isolation transformer on the stereo output, so no hum-why doesn’t everyone do that?
Because a decent transformer would be the single most expensive part in there by a wide margin
 

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My fave, now that the PT2399 chip is ubiquitous anyway, is DIY based on either the rebote or echo base circuits. I built 2 using the echo base PCB, one for me and one for a bud.

View attachment 366253
Nicely done. I've made a few of those myself. Personally, I'd make the clean-kill a toggle, to allow more space for "precise" foot use of the other stomps, but that's me.

One thing I like to do is include some (defeatable) shallow lowpass filtering in the feedback loop. Essentially a single-pole lowpass, rolling off around 800-1000hz. It progressively shaves a little more treble off each successive repeat. The shallowness of the filtering helps to leave enough treble in the recirculated signal, that there is still something left to filter. It sounds more natural, helps to move repeats to the perceptual background and unclutter the sound, and cleans up the accumulating audio grime.

Another thing I like to include - and this may well be what your "Clean Kill" switch is for - is a "Punch-In" control that enables/disables the dry feed to the delay path. This allows one to apply delay on a riff-wise basis. Whatever has already been fed to the delay path can continue spooling out, but nothing new is added...unless you want it.

Is your "Modulate" switch momentary or latching?
 

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Nicely done. I've made a few of those myself. Personally, I'd make the clean-kill a toggle, to allow more space for "precise" foot use of the other stomps, but that's me.

One thing I like to do is include some (defeatable) shallow lowpass filtering in the feedback loop. Essentially a single-pole lowpass, rolling off around 800-1000hz. It progressively shaves a little more treble off each successive repeat. The shallowness of the filtering helps to leave enough treble in the recirculated signal, that there is still something left to filter. It sounds more natural, helps to move repeats to the perceptual background and unclutter the sound, and cleans up the accumulating audio grime.

Another thing I like to include - and this may well be what your "Clean Kill" switch is for - is a "Punch-In" control that enables/disables the dry feed to the delay path. This allows one to apply delay on a riff-wise basis. Whatever has already been fed to the delay path can continue spooling out, but nothing new is added...unless you want it.

Is your "Modulate" switch momentary or latching?

Yeah it's a bit cramped, but I staggered the height of the stomps to make that easier - middle 2 stomps are much higher.

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If I had to build it again I might omit the kill altogether since I rarely use it but it can be cool. It's set up to feed the line but not output the clean, so just the echoes of whatever you play. Why would you need a 'punch in' if you have tails and near infinite repeats? Just play, let it go and turn off. The oscillation even works when delay is turned off so it's just not something I felt I needed.

The way I use it for bass I often need the echoes to be more up front and identical tone-wise to the dry. I use actual analog delays (currently a Waza DM-2 in vintage mode) for more atmospheric stuff like that (usually shorter delay time as well).

Modulation is latching. ... momentary could be interesting though. My bud uses that more than I do.

The main thing I'd want to change is the noticeable volume jump when using the instant oscillation switch (like in the second before it ramps up into oscillation). A bit unnatural most of the time. There was discussion of that in the supp thread on DIY stompboxes but I never got around to doing anything about it and forget if it was easy or a PCB hack sorta thing.
 

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Yeah it's a bit cramped, but I staggered the height of the stomps to make that easier - middle 2 stomps are much higher.
I use the same strategy myself. Height is a wonderful "disaggregator".
If I had to build it again I might omit the kill altogether since I rarely use it but it can be cool. It's set up to feed the line but not output the clean, so just the echoes of whatever you play. Why would you need a 'punch in' if you have tails and near infinite repeats? Just play, let it go and turn off. The oscillation even works when delay is turned off so it's just not something I felt I needed.
Folks accustomed to old-fashioned mag tape will be familiar with the phrase "punch-in". Many tape machines would allow you to run the reel in playback mode, but use a solenoid actuated switch to record mode for a select track to add a lick here and there as you listened. Being able to follow the song along, let you get the feel for the rhythm, and add little vocal or instrument flourishes that were perfectly in sync with the recording, without adding anything unintentional after the lick. So, not a whole overdub. The Punch-in is a momentary switch, that allows for delay to be applied to whatever you pick while you hold the switch down. Let the switch go and you stop "recording". I like to joke that it lets a person play the outro solo from "Don't Stop Believing" properly. I'm a big fan of momentary switches for some functions. They allow for more fluid integration of the effect with one's playing, since you don't have to step twice to turn on and turn off.
The way I use it for bass I often need the echoes to be more up front and identical tone-wise to the dry. I use actual analog delays (currently a Waza DM-2 in vintage mode) for more atmospheric stuff like that (usually shorter delay time as well).
That's why I make it defeatable. For things like slapback, you want full bandwidth. If one is playing lots of notes with lots of delay level and long delay times, one wants to move the repeats from foreground to background. Remember how much less dizzying Super Mario was when NIntendo was able to make the foreground sharp and the background blurred? That's what this does. And while it isn't "reverb", it sounds more like it by gently blurring repeats.
Modulation is latching. ... momentary could be interesting though. My bud uses that more than I do.

The main thing I'd want to change is the noticeable volume jump when using the instant oscillation switch (like in the second before it ramps up into oscillation). A bit unnatural most of the time. There was discussion of that in the supp thread on DIY stompboxes but I never got around to doing anything about it and forget if it was easy or a PCB hack sorta thing.
Sounds like something that would be solved by introducing some clipping diodes to ground to limit the maximum amplitude of the repeats. T'wer I, I'd probably want to use a pair of Schottkys, rather than silicon or germanium, and insert a resistance of some amount between the diodes and ground. That would allow you to noth soften the clipping as well as set the maximum feedback amplitude optimally. You could even use a trimmer. Of course, I say that not knowing how you achieve the oscillation.

Here's one I made some time back that I sent to sulphur. Not sure if he still has it or not.
366301
 

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I use the same strategy myself. Height is a wonderful "disaggregator".

Folks accustomed to old-fashioned mag tape will be familiar with the phrase "punch-in". Many tape machines would allow you to run the reel in playback mode, but use a solenoid actuated switch to record mode for a select track to add a lick here and there as you listened. Being able to follow the song along, let you get the feel for the rhythm, and add little vocal or instrument flourishes that were perfectly in sync with the recording, without adding anything unintentional after the lick. So, not a whole overdub. The Punch-in is a momentary switch, that allows for delay to be applied to whatever you pick while you hold the switch down. Let the switch go and you stop "recording". I like to joke that it lets a person play the outro solo from "Don't Stop Believing" properly. I'm a big fan of momentary switches for some functions. They allow for more fluid integration of the effect with one's playing, since you don't have to step twice to turn on and turn off.

That's why I make it defeatable. For things like slapback, you want full bandwidth. If one is playing lots of notes with lots of delay level and long delay times, one wants to move the repeats from foreground to background. Remember how much less dizzying Super Mario was when NIntendo was able to make the foreground sharp and the background blurred? That's what this does. And while it isn't "reverb", it sounds more like it by gently blurring repeats.

Sounds like something that would be solved by introducing some clipping diodes to ground to limit the maximum amplitude of the repeats. T'wer I, I'd probably want to use a pair of Schottkys, rather than silicon or germanium, and insert a resistance of some amount between the diodes and ground. That would allow you to noth soften the clipping as well as set the maximum feedback amplitude optimally. You could even use a trimmer. Of course, I say that not knowing how you achieve the oscillation.

Here's one I made some time back that I sent to sulphur. Not sure if he still has it or not.
View attachment 366301
Yes, still here. That's a unique unil with some cool features worth holding onto.
Thanks again for that pedal!
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
(To undermine my point above, though, I’ll give kudos to Montreal Assembly Count to Five. It and the Echosystem are both on my board and are both seriously amazing.)
Do you use the Ct5 as a delay? I know it’s much more than that! I tried it once and could not figure it out 😂
 

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Do you use the Ct5 as a delay? I know it’s much more than that! I tried it once and could not figure it out 😂
It does a lot of things but one of the simpler uses is as a reverse delay (mode 1 with the pitch knob at about 10 o’clock). Best reverse delay I’ve ever used.
 

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Not just Canadian but the best sounding delay pedal I’ve ever played was the Empress Vintage Modified Superdelay. I would still have it if the 8 presets were more easily accessible without having to scroll through them.
 

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Not just Canadian but the best sounding delay pedal I’ve ever played was the Empress Vintage Modified Superdelay. I would still have it if the 8 presets were more easily accessible without having to scroll through them.
I love my Echosystem which I believe can do pretty much everything the VMSD can do. It can have some easier preset access via midi, but I’ve never dipped my toes into midi world.
 
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