[isoneedacoffee]

I am thinking of going the route of a detuned cab. I wouldn't do a custom made one, I 'd use only one speaker in my 2x12. The question I have is that my vertical cab is slanted. It is a YBX212 and it is deeper at the bottom than the top. So, where should I install the single speaker?

If you've also had experiences with detuned cabs, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Budda]

What exactly is the benefit of running part of a cab? I have done no reading on the subject. Thanks!

 

[Granny Gremlin]

Is 'detuned' an actual thing used to describe a cab? Wow. Assuming I understand you here - achieving more bass response by increaseing cab volume per drive unit (there are trade offs FYI; less power handling - not only fewer speakers but the speaker can take less power than it could before due to a weaker acoustic suspension effect) - there are much easier ways of achieving that (you can give a speaker too much internal volume). Try stuffing the cab first (poly based pillow stuffing is the cheapest option but not the best, the best and most expensive is long hair 'roving' wool and there's a whole bunch of options in between such as fiberglass batting which I hate).

If you want more bass response, just disconnect the second speaker and you have effectively turned the 2x12 into a 1x12 with passive radiator. It won't be optimal, but will give you an idea of whether that's a direction you want to persue - if so you can make a better (tuneable) passive radiator out of a blown or cheap speaker.

 

[Budda]

I'd get speakers with more low end if you just want more lows. It seems the answer to your tonal quest already exists, no?

 

[Granny Gremlin]

A fair point, but for the budget-impaired or the tweaker type there's what I said. However, most guitar speakers don't do shit below 75 hz or so. So for 7 string or dropped tuning players there is a gap. If those dudes switch speakers they'll need to look at JBL d/k/e 120 s (or Weber NeoMag12 - a copy of a d120), JBL MI-12, or EV EVM 12L or Force 12, Altec 417 or 917, or Faital 12PR300 (Avatar speakers has a sick price on these) in order to be happy.

 

[Cups]

So you can hear yourself better use the top slot. It'll sound good.
I have a 2/12 that I took one driver out and it sounds good. Not all that different to be honest.

 

[isoneedacoffee]

What exactly is the benefit of running part of a cab? I have done no reading on the subject. Thanks!

There's lots on the web about it. In a nutshell, it seems to create a fuller more 3D sound akin to having a closed back cab paired with an open back one. However, there is no wall or distance to contend with as you normally do with an open back. The reflection is consistent each time and does not depend upon how far away the cab is from a wall. For me personally I can see a few benefits: 1) Fuller sound. I miss the enveloping nature I had with a closed + open back configuration. This has to do with dispersion as well. I find my cab too directional. 2) I could buy one high powered speaker and it would be lighter going up/down stairs to take to/from gigs... especially at 3am or so. 3) It would be cheaper as I could come out ahead after I sell my 2 greenbacks, which incidentally are dangerously close to being under-powered for my amp at gig levels (yba1-mod1). Adding full end for the sake of adding full end is not really what I'm after.

So you can hear yourself better use the top slot. It'll sound good.
I have a 2/12 that I took one driver out and it sounds good. Not all that different to be honest.

Thanks for the info! Exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[Budda]

Ah. They make half-back cabs too though! More gear and all that

 

[Granny Gremlin]

Taking a speaker out and leaving a hole unoccupied basically turns it into a randomly non-optimised bass reflex (ported) cab. It will give you some of the benefits of sealed as stated. The random bit means that it may or may not sound 'good' whatever that means to you.

Now, bass reflex and passive radiator designs operate on the exact same principle (both are helmholtz resonators - the difference being that instead of a given volume of air resonating in the port, you have a speaker cone). The result will be rather similar but is more likely to be in the ballpark for optimisation since (at least in your case of identical drive units) the passive cone has the same mass as the active one (in practise I find the passive needs to be a bit heavier, depending on cab volume - you can tape a looney to the dustcap to see if it makes a difference). Since it's that easy, I recomend you give it a go. Personally I prefer PRs to BR (which I really hate); tighter and less boomey.

 

[Cups]

That's why it's called "detuned ". It's not tuned to any specific frequency.
It's a London Power idea. They probably have some
Info on their website.

 

[garrettdavis275]

I've run my 8x10, 4x12's, and 2x12 detuned and each time really liked it. Didn't like it more than having all my speakers blasting, but definitely understand why some guys swear by it. There's lots of info on it because lots of guys have done it and enjoyed it. So give it a whirl and see what you think. Not the same as partially open back either. I'm not a scientist by any stretch, but the reflections off the back of the cab fire thru the open port and those specific frequencies tend to fill a room up. I'm sure it's not magical with every cab in every situation, but it's a good flavor to try out. Same idea as miking the rear of an open back, but it's more directional and kinda maintains more tightness in the low end... or something. It's different but good.

Pull the bottom speaker.

 

[High/Deaf]

There's a reason why most guys who are chuggin' are chuggin' through sealed-back 412's.

There's probably a place for detuned guitar cabs - this isn't the hi-fi 'accurate reproduction' thread. Just don't try to get them to do what they aren't naturally suited for and you shouldn't be disappointed. The right horse for the right course.

 

[Granny Gremlin]

Yes, but what I'm saying is that due to the complete randomness of the tuning (it's not that an unnoptimized cab isn't tuned to anything, it's that the tuning is not in the expected range; it is still tuned to some frequency) the results will also be random. Some cabs will take to it better than others; depends on the speaker(s) and the cab dimensions. It's easy, and doesn't cost anything but some time so it' worth a try, but if that is underwhelming, try Passive Radiator which you can tweak by adding mass to the passive cone.

Don't worry @High/Deaf , nothing suggested in this thread is in danger of being hifi.

 

[KapnKrunch]

That's why it's called "detuned ". It's not tuned to any specific frequency.
It's a London Power idea. They probably have some
Info on their website.

I bought Kevin's little book on why and how to make them from London Power. Picked it up from him in person in Thunder Bay. This is a good place to start if you prefer knowing to guessing.

Have not tried one yet.

EDITED. See later quote from the book. Disregard dumb things said by me. Do not diss LondonPower based on my spontaneous participation in this thread. See later post which quotes book directly. Sorry.

 

[isoneedacoffee]

Some cabs will take to it better than others; depends on the speaker(s) and the cab dimensions.

That's kind of the point of my thread. I'm thinking of doing it, but am wondering which speaker to take out - the top or the bottom in a vertical cab that is slanted. What are the pros/cons of each scenario knowing that the top is shallower than the bottom.

I bought Kevin's little book on why and how to make them from London Power. Picked it up from him in person in Thunder Bay. This is a good place to start if you prefer knowing to guessing.

Have not tried one yet.

The claims? Increased freq response. 85% of volume with one speaker removed from two-speaker cab. Open sound of open back with no room placement issues. All the bottom of a closed cab. Been a while since I read it. Willing to look up info in a private conversation if you have questions.

Probably not for people who need to copy what other people are doing. Interesting idea if looking for your own sound.

Have not tried one... yet.

Thanks for this info. I'll send you a PM.

 

[KapnKrunch]

That's kind of the point of my thread. I'm thinking of doing it, but am wondering which speaker to take out - the top or the bottom in a vertical cab that is slanted. What are the pros/cons of each scenario knowing that the top is shallower than the bottom.

Thanks for this info. I'll send you a PM.

When needacoffee gets this going, just ask and i will invite.

 

[greco]

I am fairly sure this idea was around long before Kevin wrote about.

I tried it (in a regular 2 x 12 cab) and I liked the "fullness" of the sound it provided. In addition, it did sound almost as loud as 2 speakers (IMO).

 

[isoneedacoffee]

I am fairly sure this idea was around long before Kevin wrote about.

I tried it (in a regular 2 x 12 cab) and I liked the "fullness" of the sound it provided. In addition, it did sound almost as loud as 2 speakers (IMO).

It's kind of a reverse scenario, but it kind of reminds me of what happened when I added a 112 extension cab to my old Traynor YCV40WR (combo open back 112). The sound I got by adding a second speaker wasn't noticeably louder, but it had more of a punch, while maintaining the airy, full, sound that the open back provided. I'm thinking that a detuned 212 might get me back in this ballpark through a single cab, but the fullness would be more focussed that an open back if that makes sense.

I just emailed Kevin to ask him some questions. I'll report back what he says if he responds.

 

[KapnKrunch]

I am fairly sure this idea was around long before Kevin wrote about.

I tried it (in a regular 2 x 12 cab) and I liked the "fullness" of the sound it provided. In addition, it did sound almost as loud as 2 speakers (IMO).

I dont think anyone think kevin invented it. Your experience seems to bear out the claims. Thanks greco. Good info.

 

[greco]

Out of interest, did you see this when you were doing your research?
Detuned Cab Experiment

I dont think anyone think kevin invented it.

Sorry, my misunderstanding/misinterpretation.