The Canadian Guitar Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This might mean going way back and looking at how each brand has evolved to what they are today. You can probably buy any amps nowadays and play any style and make that amp sound *good* but that may involve external effects. So let's leave out external effects, pedals, etc for now.

Buy a Fender to play blues?
Buy a Marshall to play hard rock and metal?

What about a Mesa? Right in between?

Can you say that all amps fall within one of these *silos* or categories?

Please feel free to discuss your favorite amp(s) here and help me understand *where it comes from* or *where it fits in* within (or across or outside) the silos. What makes a Marshall a Marshall? What makes your fav amp your fav amp?

:thanks5qx:

Edit: I know it doesn't quite fit in this way so simply, think of Jimi Hendrix playing a strat through a Marshall... smokin' blues! So the categories might be Hard Rock, Bluesy stuff and Acoustic? And each brands have different models falling within these categories?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
think of cream... thats blues through a marshall. very electric blues but still blues. i don't really think you can nail a make of amp to a specific genre, prehaps a specific sound... but even then, you can get a variety of nice sounds out of amps these days.
case and point... u2... the edge uses 2 types of amps, ac30s and fenders... but does he just have a high end crunch or a blues edge? no, not at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
748 Posts
I've always considered Mesa's to be a blues amp, that just happened to get into the high gain game when metal bands started using them. no?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,026 Posts
British Blues - think Marshall. American Blues (BB, Buddy) think Fender.. White Amercian Blues - think everything from Two Rock to Fender to Who-Knows-What.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So if you place a bunch of amps side by side (amps of similar config e.i. all have 1 x 10” speakers or all have 2 x 12” and so on) and that you set the knobs at 5 across the board (gain, volume, treble, ...) (well ok maybe Presence at 8 or 9 or something to make it interesting) that you should be able to *get* the sound, buzz or *envelop characteristic” of each particular amp? And from that *base*, it’s up to individual players to tweak it?

Would it make sense then to say that some amps are built for *bluesier* (some say “mellower”) applications and some are built for *harsher* (*runchy-er?) playing? And each provide a *palette* of lighter and darker shades from these 2 bases? I’ll have to look into an “ac30s” to hear what it sounds like. But since that “the edge” is not a *high end crunch* kinda guy that I’m thinking that the base “envelop” will have *bluesy* tones.

Or does it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
I don't think you can say a particular amp brand is best for any particular style of music. There are trends that people follow that might make you think that, but then there is always the guy who comes along who bucks the trend and blows the theory out of the water. There are also too many other factors besides the amp that figure into the equation. An amp needs a guitar, which needs pickups, which all need a guitarist, who has his or her own idea of how the amp should be adjusted. No amp is an island. (philosophy)

Blues is a big word. Almost any amp could be a good blues amp (even NO amp if your a blues "purist";)) because there are umpteen thousand different styles of blues. You can play blues on any instrument as well; don't even need a guitar.

Heavy metal, which as a style is more or less defined by a loud sizzling guitar, is not going to work on a Fender Champ, so the field is somewhat narrowed to more powerful amps with multiple gain stages, but it could still be a Fender.

Some of the earliest Fender designs were before rock & roll came along and the first Marshalls were aimed right at rock & roll but copied the Fender Bassman. The first Mesa Boogie was a modded Fender as well (Bassman circuit in a Princeton cabinet). Maybe they are'nt that different, afterall.
:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Allright then, let's try to look at it another way. Let's forget about blues, hard rock etc. But let's keep in mind the overall sound *envelop* of each amps all compared to at level 5 across the board (except master volume).

Where on the following scale, 0 = softer, mellower, etc and 9 = *distorted*, *fatter*, bassier...

Tube amps:

---- 0 ----1 ---- 2 ---- 3 ---- 4 ---- 5 ---- 6 ---- 7 ---- 8 ---- 9 ----
............................. Fender.................. Fender................ Marshall
......................... Twin Reverb.............. Bassman........1962 Bluesbreaker(?)

Fender Twin = 3
Fender Bassman = 6
1962 Bluesbreaker = 9 ?

I know Fender amps so far by the modelling of different amps on my cybertwin. I don't know the different models of Marshalls or other amp company. Is there a Marshall model that is not so *electric* ?

What about Mesa Boogie's different models?
What about Peavey?
Traynors?
Where would a Fuchs fit on a scale like this?

Come on work with me and let's make this interesting. Correct me, reshape this *graph* if you want. With so many amp company and models, we've got to be able to *classify* them somehow.

What number would you assign the amp(s) that you are familiar with?

Separate category for solid state amps? Similar scale (graph)?

Edit: Where would a Fuchs fit in ... (not Fuch)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
I've played a wide assortment of amps over the years, and with the same guitar, but I still could'nt pigeon-hole the differences into a simple linear scale like you've suggested. If someone has a pile of amps willing to do your test, they can offer an opinion based on their ears and ability to describe sound in the English language. (how many different sounds could be described as distorted?) Afterall, words are the means by which we misunderstand each other. This is a test, I think, you would have to do yourself to get any real value from it.

I think a slightly more effective approach would be to have a list of qualities that could be described or rated under each amp heading. The problem for me with your linear model is, I would place the Bassman as being both mellower and more distorted than the Twin, which would place it on both sides of the Twin on the scale. Someone else may interpret "the words" differently than me. This is all IMHO. :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,026 Posts
ofender said:
Where would a Fuch fit on a scale like this?
I think you have to look at each amp he offers. The Lucky Seven is 'marshall voiced' and uses an EL34. The The Black Jack 21 is 'marshall voiced' but uses 6V6s. The Train Forty-Five is modelled after the TrainWreck I believe.

Check out his site and see what he has to say about each model.

http://www.fuchsaudiotechnology.com/html/amplifiers.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
666 Posts
An amp is just a tool, like a guitar. You find the tool to get your particular job done. Some tools fit some better than others, or you like the options that it comes with, or you like it stripped down. Whatever floats your boat. Same with amps. I never looked at any amp with a label. If it makes me play and feel right, then it'll work.
People look at me funny when I show up with an old Traynor amp, wrinkle up their noses, ,,til they Hear it. Then they start asking questions.
How many times have you seen a band with gear to die for, but they still suck??

CT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yeah good points you all. I didn't mean this to be a scientific thing. As a new player, I don't have that experience yet. But I imagine that when you've been gigging and jamming with people for a while that you think (maybe without really thinking about it) that you better bring *this* amp for the jam tonight as opposed to *that* amp. The next amp I want to buy is this amp... Why?

See I disagree, admittedly with my limited knowledge so far, that a Bassman has a mellower *sound envelop* that a Twin. If you put these side by side and set the knobs so that they're *comparable* (gain treble... lets say at 5) that the bassman has a *natural* overall sounds that is boomier. If you crank up the gain from there, you have an amp (I'm thinking) that is a good base for harder and heavier music. You still might want to use it and tweak it for mellower application. If you crank the gain on a Twin, you'll have a distorted sound but still *cleaner* that a bassman with gain cranked.

You feedback is good though. It certainly makes me think and I'm starting to understand a little better. Yes putting this in words is not that obvious. And like I said, I wasn't looking for an exact scientific thing, just a ball park kind thing. Just to make you think too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
The sound is in the hands.Any good tube amp can sound great in the right hands.And some solid state as well.
I know a few smokin' guitar players and their music sounds the same with whatever amp they use.Now the QUALITY of that sound is dramatically different from one to another.
It's what your ears say is right for YOU.Everyone likes something different,hence mesa boogies atempts at getting it all in one amp.I think they fail miserably in some areas and excell in others.
People need to decide for themselves.That's why there are so many amp companies and boutique builders out there.It's as varied as what kind of food you like to eat.
Coco,I second the Traynor tone plug.They are sweet.

www.claramps.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
ofender said:
See I disagree, admittedly with my limited knowledge so far, that a Bassman has a mellower *sound envelop* that a Twin. If you put these side by side and set the knobs so that they're *comparable* (gain treble... lets say at 5) that the bassman has a *natural* overall sounds that is boomier. If you crank up the gain from there, you have an amp (I'm thinking) that is a good base for harder and heavier music. You still might want to use it and tweak it for mellower application. If you crank the gain on a Twin, you'll have a distorted sound but still *cleaner* that a bassman with gain cranked.
I agree the Bassman is boomier. I agree the Twin is cleaner.
I don't think we have the same definition of "mellower". If you cranked both amps, the Bassman would kick your butt, but the Twin would rip your face off. Relatively speaking, a kick in the butt is mellower than a ripped-off face.;)

"It depends on what the definition of the word "is" is. -Bill Clinton
:D
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top