[greco]

I was talking to a fellow that put one of these in the neck of his jazz box. Creamery is a British company that has several pickups to choose from.

Has anyone ever heard/bought this specific pickup?

I'm surprised by the low DCR (in red below)

Creamery Custom, Modern & Alternative Design, Replacement Humbucker Pickups
Charlie Christian - Humbucker Size

Magnets Alnico 5
Coil Wire 38AWG
Lead Wire Vintage Cloth Covered with Separate Ground Wire
Neck Output 2.9k

Clear, defined, big, round jazzier sound.
Wound with much thicker coil wire to a seemingly lower output - don't let that fool you. With strong custom made Alnico 5 magnets the Charlie Christian Humbucker size is a fat, round jazzy sound that keeps clarity & string definition. Its a unique sound that works perfect in the neck position for those wanting vintage, jazzier sounds from a direct drop-in replacement Humbucker neck position pickup.

A single plated steel blade sits at the heart of the design inside a scatterwound coil of much thicker 38awg coil wire, and I experimented with a variety of magnet grades and sizes until finally working on a duo of custom made Alnico 5s to get the sound I was after.

Available in a custom chrome slit groove design cover, the new Dark Line pickups are direct drop-in replacements - I spent a long time getting the design of these just right, putting them aside, coming back to them - a real labour of love.

Made with a separate ground wire for the cover & baseplate to ensure it will work in-phase with other make bridge pickups.

Thanks for your comments.

Cheers

Dave

 

[mhammer]

1) 2.9k is not the output. It is the DC resistance. If one was using the more familiar #42 gauge wire, on a familiar bobbin size, then one could draw rough inferences about output from DC resistance, since more turns = higher output and higher resistance.

2) #38 wire is a lot thicker than #42, and linear resistance drops with gauge faster than you'd think. For instance #38 has a linear resistance per foot that is just under 63% of that of #40. So even 2.9k could be the result of the same number of turns we would associate with a P90.

3) We don't know what the internal circumference of the coil is. The blade might be a whole lot smaller circumference than the polepieces on a Strat or screws on a P90. Which means you can stuff a LOT of turns on that thing and still have a low DCR.

 

[greco]

2.9k is not the output. It is the DC resistance

"output" was quoted directly from their website. I used the term DCR rather than "output"

Interesting information that you posted.

I am primarily curious to know (subjectively) if the tone that is stated was actually achieved ...AND if the actual (signal) output is consistent with what would (possibly) be expected from a DCR of 2.9K ohms (e.g., similar to the decrease in output seen in vintage voiced Strat pickups at around 6.0 K ohms DCR or so).

Maybe (I'm now betting "likely") I am 'missing the point(s) you are making in 2) and 3).

Thanks for helping me to understand this.

 

[nnieman]

I’m no expert on them..... but I’ve been thinking of buying one.

Soap Bar Charlie Christian

I guess they are fairly low output but still fairly loud.
Like vintage style strat pickups.

I’m not familiar with the creamery at all.

Nathan

 

[mhammer]

"output" was quoted directly from their website. I used the term DCR rather than "output"

Interesting information that you posted.

I am primarily curious to know (subjectively) if the tone that is stated was actually achieved ...AND if the actual (signal) output is consistent with what would (possibly) be expected from a DCR of 2.9K ohms (e.g., similar to the decrease in output seen in vintage voiced Strat pickups at around 6.0 K ohms DCR or so).

Maybe (I'm now betting "likely") I am 'missing the point(s) you are making in 2) and 3).

Thanks for helping me to understand this.

The tone of a pickup is partly related to the dimensions and form-factor of the coil, as well as the magnet type/strength, etc. The more turns in the coil (in the absence of any transformer like the Lace Alumitones), the higher the output. But bear in mind the coil is, at the same time, an inductor. The resonant peak/s of the coil will vary with its inductive properties. That's why coil-cancelling changes the tone of an HB: leaving only one coil in play changes where the resonant peak/s is/are found. The sensing area is still largely between the top-facing slugs.

The shape of the coil will also change the inductive properties. Jazzmaster and Strat pickups both use Alnico polepieces, but sound somewhat different. Where the Strat coil is taller, and the wire distance travelled, per turn, is shorter, the Jazzmaster is short and flat, such that the middle and outer turns involve a greater length of wire per-turn than a Strat. I'm sure there are other parameters that matter as well, but having the outer turns be essentially "farther away" from the polepieces alters how disturbances of the magnetic field induces voltage in those turns.

So how does this connect 2 and 3? If I start with an HB or P90 footprint, then I have to figure out a way to stuff as many turns as I need into that space. #38 will take up more room, per turn, than #42 (the usual gauge). It will also have much lower linear resistance (i.e., resistance per foot or meter of wire). If I'm aiming for a reasonable output, then I have to find a way to fit all those turns into that space. (I recently ran into this problem, trying to fit enough turns of #42 into the space of an old DeArmond pickup that I'm now realizing used something thinner; I could only fit in about 4800 turns, so the pickup "works" but has a wimpy output). Winding around a blade does not require as much wire length - at least for inner turns - and permits fitting more of a thicker wire into the limited physical space of a P90 footprint.

In general, I have found that lower-DCR pickups are a bit brighter than those described as overwound (e.g., single-coil DCR of 8k+ or humbucker DCR of 10k+). Some of this is because of what isn't lost due to loading by
a higher-DCR pickup. And some of it is because "overwinding" implies more turns added to the outside of the coil (the inner turns tend to "catch" more top end). And some is because increasing the number of turns changes the inductance and lower the resonant peak/s. When you switch wire gauges, you end up affecting many of the other parameters. People tend to stick with #42 because it's a known quantity - kind of like the role of lab rats in medical research; not the "best" model of human biology, but we know how to interpret the data they provide. One can use any of a variety of other gauges, as long as you tweak all the other things that need tweaking to arrive at the same tonal and output-level goals.

Though some of his other books can be hit and miss, I found Dave Hunter's Guitar Pickup Handbook clarifies the interplay of the different parameters very nicely.

 

[greco]

@mhammer Thank you very much for your long, well-written (as always) and
informative post. It further clarified my understanding of DCR as it relates to pickups and brought to light many other parameters that I was not aware of (e.g., inner and outer turns, etc).

Thanks again.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Budda]

You gonna buy it?

 

[greco]

It is in a guitar that I am hoping to take a look at. The seller (Kijiji) is in Huntsville. However, his friend (who apparently lives a few blocks from me) is visiting him in late September and will bring the guitar back to Kitchener with him. Very considerate of the seller. I also think it will sell faster in this area if the friend puts it up on Kijiji here. It is an Epi ES 175.