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To your point, travel restrictions "worked" in New Zealand and Australia with tough measures and heavily controlled flights and quarantines. Covid got in anyway.
Match of the century,... Covid 19 vs Homosapiens innate and adaptive immune systems,... winner take all.
There are too many variables to control the spread of any virus due to the current status of global interaction and the interdependency we have created,... there is nowhere to run or hide,... unless of course you set up shop in the remotest of areas in the country of which you reside and become a full on Homesteader.

I suppose those who are full time Homesteaders are currently the safest from contracting the virus if they can avoid any contact with the outside world,... those lucky bastards, lol.

Tried the half-Homesteader thing 30 years ago while living in the remote area of Kenora, Northwest Ontario, it was extremely challenging and time consuming up and above of holding down a job,... couldn't imagine the effort needed to do it full time,... probably many 14 to 16 hour days.

Anyways,... I'll put my money on the Homosapiens finishing as the victors,... tried, tested and true for 200,000+ years,🏆
 

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Match of the century,... Covid 19 vs Homosapiens innate and adaptive immune systems,... winner take all.
There are too many variables to control the spread of any virus due to the current status of global interaction and the interdependency we have created,... there is nowhere to run or hide,... unless of course you set up shop in the remotest of areas in the country of which you reside and become a full on Homesteader.

I suppose those who are full time Homesteaders are currently the safest from contracting the virus if they can avoid any contact with the outside world,... those lucky bastards, lol.

Tried the half-Homesteader thing 30 years ago while living in the remote area of Kenora, Northwest Ontario, it was extremely challenging and time consuming up and above of holding down a job,... couldn't imagine the effort needed to do it full time,... probably many 14 to 16 hour days.

Anyways,... I'll put my money on the Homosapiens finishing as the victors,... tried, tested and true for 200,000+ years,🏆
One would have thought that Saskatchewan would have been the safest bet, given that it sometimes seems like one's closest neighbour lives 5km away. But with a population a little larger than Saskatchewan's, Ottawa has less than 1/10 the case count, and room in the ICU.

Travel restrictions in New Zealand actually did work...until folks thought they were "safe" and started getting sloppy. It didn't help that NZ didn't mount any sort of large-scale immunization program because they thought they were "safe" and didn't need it. Sometimes it feels like asking a teen before they head out if their homework's done. "Yeah, pretty much".
 

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Interesting, if somewhat aggressive, article in The Atlantic on Ivermectin and the research supporting its use. The Real Scandal About Ivermectin

The author expresses not a small amount of frustration in his attempts to get information, and especially data, from researchers. It's more of an exasperation with the state of scientific journal scrutiny at the present time, than anything else, although it does tend to undermine strong claims about ivermectin as having a great track record as a Covid-19 prophylactic and treatment. He understands that the present circumstances nudge journal editors and reviewers to kind of sort of rush things into print and on-line publishing. But that doesn't unfurrow his brow very much. Bottom line: check it out, but don't bet the farm on ivermectin.
 

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Interesting, if somewhat aggressive, article in The Atlantic on Ivermectin and the research supporting its use. The Real Scandal About Ivermectin

The author expresses not a small amount of frustration in his attempts to get information, and especially data, from researchers. It's more of an exasperation with the state of scientific journal scrutiny at the present time, than anything else, although it does tend to undermine strong claims about ivermectin as having a great track record as a Covid-19 prophylactic and treatment. He understands that the present circumstances nudge journal editors and reviewers to kind of sort of rush things into print and on-line publishing. But that doesn't unfurrow his brow very much. Bottom line: check it out, but don't bet the farm on ivermectin.
Interesting indeed. But it left me wondering how much knowledge I'd actually acquired. 5 out of 30 studies reviewed were highly suspect and all 5 were "pro-ivermectin". So I learned not to trust studies? Did I learn anything about the effectiveness of Ivermectin? I don't know .................
 

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Or you know, like stated earlier in the thread, the people making ivermectin drugs already say it’s not effective against the Rona so I guess I’d listen to them, cause sure as shit if it was they wouldn’t mind profiting billions from it instead of putting the exact opposite on their own websites.
 

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More so than the specific effectiveness of ivermectin, the article is talking about the underlying motives of those who write these papers in the first place.

Some are actively working to further knowledge
Some are trying to publish stuff to keep a job
Some are trying to publish for recognition to get a job
Some are trying to publish for a payday - getting internet famous has (unfortunately) become a legitimate job these days

aside from the first group, the rest can cut corners, lie, cheat, steal to get work out there.

at the same time, many people are trying to actively gain more knowledge about covid-19. Everything published about it then becomes harder to slip past.

What the writer is suggesting is that everyone treat all scientific articles with a healthy dose of skepticism.
 

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Chris,
I guess it's about thinking you've taken a handoff and can run through the defensive line for a touchdown, only to look down and find you have a shoe in your hands, rather than the football. Doesn't mean you were ill-intentioned or dishonest. But all the same, it doesn't count as moving the ball forward OR a first down.

That's sort of the point of the article. We'd like to think that published research in the midst of an emergency has taught us something of value that we can depend on, and quickly move forward on that basis. And it's not like people are being deliberately deceptive. After all, who would stand to benefit from finding support for a drug that is cheap and widely available? But the reality is that traditional scientific publication used to take a long time. If you submited to a higher profile journal - say one that published 4 times a year with maybe 4-6 papers in each issue - your paper might take 8 months of review to be accepted and then sit on the stack before showing up in print 2 or more years later. But that was an environment where the motive was to understand...eventually.

In the meantime...
a) the world is currently in an emergency and desperately seeking information, sometimes with few filters on,
b) many, if not all, journals have gone electronic and are quite willing to treat pre-prints as legit (we've seen plenty of papers discussed, re: Covid, with the qualifier "Has not been peer-reviewed yet")
c) there has been an explosion of 4th-tier pay-for-print "journals", many of which investigative journalists have found would publish pure poppycock without any questions asked.

Our pet bunny will constantly try and get into my office. As a member of his species (we think it's a he), he's a bit of a diversity-seeker, and will try any new food before deciding that it's not for him (he gave celery leaves a chance before giving them a thumbs-down). But that also means he finds a piece of masking tape on the floor of my office, or a snipped bit of wire insulation, and starts gobbling it. Not everything we hastily consume has nutritional value. And I suppose the hungrier one is, the less discriminating one becomes.

Maybe there's something to this ivermectin thing, as a fallback position, where vaccination is hard to come by because of geography, access to refrigeration, supply shortages, or simply national budget. Conceivably, it might be able to do some good, if not quite as much as hoped for, when safe dosages are observed. As the author implies, the existing research does not provide the strong support some think. At the same time, neither does it seem to indicate that judicious use would be tantamount to mass suicide. But the vigor with which some have adopted questionable research as "strong" support for abandoning or rejecting vaccine is a whole other matter.
 

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More so than the specific effectiveness of ivermectin, the article is talking about the underlying motives of those who write these papers in the first place.

Some are actively working to further knowledge
Some are trying to publish stuff to keep a job
Some are trying to publish for recognition to get a job
Some are trying to publish for a payday - getting internet famous has (unfortunately) become a legitimate job these days

aside from the first group, the rest can cut corners, lie, cheat, steal to get work out there.

at the same time, many people are trying to actively gain more knowledge about covid-19. Everything published about it then becomes harder to slip past.

What the writer is suggesting is that everyone treat all scientific articles with a healthy dose of skepticism.
If one follows/examines the medical research literature, it is not uncommon for a single paper to have 10 or more co-authors. One or two of them will be the principal investigators. Two or three will be their graduate students, who did the actual work, while one may be a lab tech on staff. The remainder will tend to be someone who let you use their equipment (that they were able to get with their grant but you can't afford with yours) in a quid pro quo for a co-authorship. Because so much is riding on having yet more and more publications, in order to compete with others who also have more and more publications, so that you can score a job, a grant, or tenure, this is simply accepted practice. I will also decline to let university and hospital comms people off the hook. They have a habit of tarting up and encouraging disclosure of even the frothiest research if they feel it will enhance the institution's image and possibly attract endowments or other grants.

It's a jungle out there, and it's a very strong current to try and swim against, no matter how pure-of-heart one is.
 

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c) there has been an explosion of 4th-tier pay-for-print "journals", many of which investigative journalists have found would publish pure poppycock without any questions asked.
Predatory journals?

Opinion: I Published a Fake Paper in a ‘Peer-Reviewed’ Journal

A dubious education journal invited me to submit a manuscript that would undergo “rigorous” review. It was far too easy.

I concocted seven pages of flapdoodle, including references — loosely following the plot of the TV series “Breaking Bad” — about the educational value of high school students driving into the desert and making drugs.

The paper was ridiculous. I claimed that New Mexico is part of the Galapagos Islands, that craniotomy is a legitimate means of assessing student learning, and that all my figures were made in Microsoft Paint. At one point, I lamented that our research team was unable to measure study participants’ “cloacal temperatures.” Any legitimate peer reviewer who bothered to read just the abstract would’ve tossed the paper in the garbage (or maybe called the police). That is, if they even got past the title page, which listed my coauthors as “Breaking Bad” lead characters Walter White and Jesse Pinkman.
 

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Predatory journals?

Opinion: I Published a Fake Paper in a ‘Peer-Reviewed’ Journal

A dubious education journal invited me to submit a manuscript that would undergo “rigorous” review. It was far too easy.

I concocted seven pages of flapdoodle, including references — loosely following the plot of the TV series “Breaking Bad” — about the educational value of high school students driving into the desert and making drugs.

The paper was ridiculous. I claimed that New Mexico is part of the Galapagos Islands, that craniotomy is a legitimate means of assessing student learning, and that all my figures were made in Microsoft Paint. At one point, I lamented that our research team was unable to measure study participants’ “cloacal temperatures.” Any legitimate peer reviewer who bothered to read just the abstract would’ve tossed the paper in the garbage (or maybe called the police). That is, if they even got past the title page, which listed my coauthors as “Breaking Bad” lead characters Walter White and Jesse Pinkman.
That was equal parts shocking and entertaining 👍
 

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Keep in mind that, if one needs a job for the coming year after the post-doc runs out, and a paper submitted to a prestigious journal wouldn't appear in print for 2 more years...maybe, if they rushed it...one begins to view "predatory" journals as a next best thing. I'm not justifying it, but we can't keep churning out more Ph.D.s than there are jobs for them. And those on academic search committees and grant-review committees need to have a black-list of such journals, to be able to look through a candidate's list of publications with a more scrupulous eye.
 

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One would have thought that Saskatchewan would have been the safest bet, given that it sometimes seems like one's closest neighbour lives 5km away. But with a population a little larger than Saskatchewan's, Ottawa has less than 1/10 the case count, and room in the ICU.

Travel restrictions in New Zealand actually did work...until folks thought they were "safe" and started getting sloppy. It didn't help that NZ didn't mount any sort of large-scale immunization program because they thought they were "safe" and didn't need it. Sometimes it feels like asking a teen before they head out if their homework's done. "Yeah, pretty much".
I am assuming you are agreeing with what I mentioned in my last post. That those who are totally isolated from the worlds current web of global social interaction and interdependency either by choice or place of birth, (ie. the Sentinelese people), will be immune from ever contracting the virus.

Saskatchewan fits neither of the two aforementioned criteria for total isolation,... aside from any totally isolated full time Homesteaders that may exist in that province or any other location in this country.

Fairly simple concept.
 

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If one is truly the sort of homesteader you depict, as isolated as you depict, then contagious diseases ought not to come one's way, unless one gets bitten by an animal or insect that serves as carrier. And even if one does get bit, who is going to catch it from you if you're out in the middle of nowhere?

I think the difficulty with Saskatchewan and parts of Manitoba is that some confuse "small town" with "totally secluded". When there was a measles outbreak among Hasidic communities in Brooklyn, they also construed their social isolation and insularity as some sort of invisible force field against disease that made vaccination unnecessary. Didn't exactly work out that way. Cripes, how many times have we seen a news item about some grisly crime, and those interviewed routinely go on about how they never thought anything like that could "happen here". I suppose it's an easy trap to fall into when the contrast between one's own town and those megalopolises you see on TV seems so huge.
 

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"mhammer"
If one is truly the sort of homesteader you depict, as isolated as you depict, then contagious diseases ought not to come one's way, unless one gets bitten by an animal or insect that serves as carrier. And even if one does get bit, who is going to catch it from you if you're out in the middle of nowhere?


MR - My initial thoughts exactly,... we agree on this.

"mhammer"
I think the difficulty with Saskatchewan and parts of Manitoba is that some confuse "small town" with "totally secluded".


MR - Perhaps some do confuse small town with totally secluded,... but I wouldn't understand as to why or how.
I have lived in small towns of northwestern Ontario with small populations,... and have also spent time in the wilderness of northwestern Ontario totally secluded living in canvas prospector tents for weeks at time while solo timber cruising or months at a time fighting forest fires with a crew of 4 other secluded individuals,... I fully understand the differences between the two, lol.

So again we agree,... two for two,... progress is being made.

Also, during the late 80's took a trip up to the end of lonely Hwy.6 to visit a friend in Thompson, Manitoba for a couple weeks. Although not what one would consider to be a totally secluded destination it certainly felt like you were on the moon,... nice place to visit,... but,....

The drive was about a 1,000km north from the town of Kenora where I was living. There was nothing on Hwy. 6 with the exception of a couple spread out gas stations and one small roadside motel. Only passed a handful of vehicles travelling south during the entire day and no such thing as cell phone service,... had my fingers crossed hoping that the old beat up Jeep truck wouldn't go belly up on me,... or I would have found myself totally isolated on a chilly mid-October Manitoba roadside for a night with a suitcase, box of beer, bag of chips and a rifle,... ahhhh, the good old days, lol.
 

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A good friend of mine spent his life cruisin' for Manfor out of The Pas. He got used to "lonely" for sure.
Yeah, I have heard of Manfor. I think they are or were responsible for taking care of reforesting near 80% of harvested forests in the area. I believe Tolko is the current lumber mill operating in The Pas.

Never took that left turn off Hwy.6 to The Pas but a friend of mine has a brother by the name of Shaun Keith who lives and works out The Pas for 'Search & Rescue'. I think they mainly focus on rescue at the Hudbay 777 zinc mine in Flin Flon,... probably other mines as well.

Wonder if your friend knows or has ever had a beer with him,... it is a small community of good people.

Not Covid related,... but I wouldn't think they have too much to worry about up there as they are 600km or so north of Winnipeg.
 

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Ontario is setting to release a plan for a 3rd booster shot next week.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8335319/ontario-covid-vaccine-third-dose-booster-plan/
I expect that in the next couple months they'll be made for the general population. I'm fine with that. Maggs and I are booked for Cuba in late March - I wouldn't mind a booster before that.

Or sooner:

 
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