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Russell Brand has an interesting perspective on vaccine hesitancy and how the issues surrounding it are more complex than what is on the surface. That, and reaction to it and the people around the issue, including the media.

Wow!,... what a refreshing 20 minutes. Someone very well spoken and who has an ability of exercising common sense and critical thinking. He masterfully dissects and exposes Don Lemon along with the the CNN agendas. Why anyone would waste their valuable time watching such news reporting rubbish has always puzzled me. Good to see Russel Brand have the courage to take them to task. I had to dig deep for the will power just to watch the clips that Brand included in his video of the the two Stooges,... Don Lemon(suitable last name) and Chris 'Fredo' Cuomo,... don't know if I could have watched the video at all if the third Stooge Anderson Cooper was included.

Huh, just thinking,... how's that brother of Fredo doing lately?,... Andrew 'The Snake' Cuomo,... recent former Governor of New York, lol.

These people are all the same,... different suit but cut from the same mould.

Go get em' Russell.
 

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Vaccination; the art of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.

Vaccine; A product that stimulate's a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease.

Okay, so what do we have presented to us, not that long ago, to get to 'herd immunity'. Something, whose efficacy, begins to wane, at the 4-6 month mark, doesn't protect you from catching the disease (although you were told it would), and you can still transmit the disease. Somehow that doesn't match up with the meaning of the word vaccine.

Why worry....if they can change the meaning of the word 'case' (based on a test that is not a diagnostic for the disease), they can change the meaning of the word 'vaccine'. Ka-ching Ka-ching.
 

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And since we're on the topic of changing the meaning of words here's another of my own making.....feel free to use it.

Breakthrough case......Vaccine failure. Has a nice ring to it.
So far the numbers say a vaccinated person is 8 times less likely to catch or pass on the virus. Also 25 times less likely to end up in the hospital. Not the silver bullet we'd hoped for - but not a failure either. Far better than doing nothing and hoping that the problem will somehow go away..
 

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So far the numbers say a vaccinated person is 8 times less likely to catch or pass on the virus. Also 25 times less likely to end up in the hospital. Not the silver bullet we'd hoped for - but not a failure either. Far better than doing nothing and hoping that the problem will somehow go away..
Doing nothing? Early treatment is the key. Since when in medical history that you remember, have you been told to go home because your blood oxygen level isn't quite low enough, and come back later when you're really sick. A minimal of 80% of hospital admissions could be eliminated by early treatment. That would be doing something positive.
 

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In other good news, that wasn't mentioned in another thread (probably because it was shut down), Ted Nugent recovered from Covid 19, and he was into the sixth or seventh day of symptoms. And how did he recover? He was given the FLCCC treatment....monoclonal antibodies, fluvoxamine, prednisone, ivermectin (yes, he has horse blood in him), large dose vitamin C intravenously and a few of the other usual suspects. And he's old.....and he lived. Rock on Ted.
 

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Doing nothing? Early treatment is the key. Since when in medical history that you remember, have you been told to go home because your blood oxygen level isn't quite low enough, and come back later when you're really sick. A minimal of 80% of hospital admissions could be eliminated by early treatment. That would be doing something positive.
I can't disagree with that but I think preventative maintenance is more important.
 

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Contracted covid-19 in February of 2020. I have a serious auto-immune disorder(Dermatomyositis) despite this my innate and adaptive immune systems obviously were still able to produce an adequate amount of anti-bodies that protected me from sinking into a deep state of infection that required hospitalization. According to the attached article it would appear that I may indeed have long term protection with antibody producing cells that could potentially last a lifetime. I should also mention that I have been leading a very healthy lifestyle for decades which includes proper diet, exercise and naturopathic approaches to health. This may have been the difference during my Covid infection that allowed me to pull through after feeling ill on and off for a month or so. Along with the aforementioned auto-immune disorder I have a couple other health issues putting me in the category of someone with co-morbidities. Also have had two previous close brushes with death unrelated to Covid,... so, nothing really rattles my cage anymore when it comes to my mortality,... or anything else for that matter.

Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection | Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis
Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection
People who have had mild illness develop antibody-producing cells that can last lifetime
by Tamara Bhandari•May 24, 2021
GETTY IMAGES
People who have had a mild case of COVID-19 are left with long-term antibody protection against future disease, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis.
Months after recovering from mild cases of COVID-19, people still have immune cells in their body pumping out antibodies against the virus that causes COVID-19, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. Such cells could persist for a lifetime, churning out antibodies all the while.
The findings, published May 24 in the journal Nature, suggest that mild cases of COVID-19 leave those infected with lasting antibody protection and that repeated bouts of illness are likely to be uncommon.
“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” said senior author Ali Ellebedy, PhD, an associate professor of pathology & immunology, of medicine and of molecular microbiology. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.”

During a viral infection, antibody-producing immune cells rapidly multiply and circulate in the blood, driving antibody levels sky-high. Once the infection is resolved, most such cells die off, and blood antibody levels drop. A small population of antibody-producing cells, called long-lived plasma cells, migrate to the bone marrow and settle in, where they continually secrete low levels of antibodies into the bloodstream to help guard against another encounter with the virus.
The key to figuring out whether COVID-19 leads to long-lasting antibody protection, Ellebedy realized, lies in the bone marrow. To find out whether those who have recovered from mild cases of COVID-19 harbor long-lived plasma cells that produce antibodies specifically targeted to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, Ellebedy teamed up with co-author Iskra Pusic, MD, an associate professor of medicine. Ellebedy already was working with co-authors Rachel Presti, MD, PhD, an associate professor of medicine, and Jane O’Halloran, MD, PhD, an assistant professor of medicine, on a project to track antibody levels in blood samples from COVID-19 survivors.
The team already had enrolled 77 participants who were giving blood samples at three-month intervals starting about a month after initial infection. Most participants had had mild cases of COVID-19; only six had been hospitalized.
With Pusic’s help, Ellebedy and colleagues obtained bone marrow from 18 of the participants seven or eight months after their initial infections. Five of them came back four months later and provided a second bone marrow sample. An additional person who had recovered from COVID-19 gave bone marrow separately. For comparison, the scientists also obtained bone marrow from 11 people who had never had COVID-19.
As expected, antibody levels in the blood of the COVID-19 participants dropped quickly in the first few months after infection and then mostly leveled off, with some antibodies detectable even 11 months after infection. Further, 15 of the 19 bone marrow samples from people who had had COVID-19 contained antibody-producing cells specifically targeting the virus that causes COVID-19. Such cells could still be found four months later in the five people who came back to provide a second bone-marrow sample. None of the 11 people who had never had COVID-19 had such antibody-producing cells in their bone marrow.
“People with mild cases of COVID-19 clear the virus from their bodies two to three weeks after infection, so there would be no virus driving an active immune response seven or 11 months after infection,” Ellebedy said. “These cells are not dividing. They are quiescent, just sitting in the bone marrow and secreting antibodies. They have been doing that ever since the infection resolved, and they will continue doing that indefinitely.”
People who were infected and never had symptoms also may be left with long-lasting immunity, the researchers speculated. But it’s yet to be investigated whether those who endured more severe infection would be protected against a future bout of disease, they said.
“It could go either way,” said first author Jackson Turner, PhD, an instructor in pathology & immunology. “Inflammation plays a major role in severe COVID-19, and too much inflammation can lead to defective immune responses. But on the other hand, the reason why people get really sick is often because they have a lot of virus in their bodies, and having a lot of virus around can lead to a good immune response. So it’s not clear. We need to replicate the study in people with moderate to severe infections to understand whether they are likely to be protected from reinfection.”
Ellebedy and colleagues now are studying whether vaccination also induces long-lived antibody-producing cells.

Turner JS, Kim W, Kalaidina E, Goss CW, Rauseo AM, Schmitz AJ, Hansen L, Haile A, Klebert MK, Pusic I, O’Halloran JA, Presti RM, Ellebedy AH. SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans. Nature. May 24, 2021. DOI: 10.1038/s41586-021-03647-4
This study was supported by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), grant numbers U01AI1419901, U01AI150747 and 5T32CA009547 and contract numbers HHSN272201400006C, HHSN272201400008C and 75N93019C00051; the Norwegian Research Council, grant number 271160; and the University of Oslo’s National Graduate School in Infection Biology and Antimicrobials, grant number 249062. This study utilized samples obtained from the Washington University School of Medicine’s COVID-19 biorepository supported by the NIH/National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences, grant number UL1 TR002345.
Washington University School of Medicine’s 1,500 faculty physicians also are the medical staff of Barnes-Jewish and St. Louis Children’s hospitals. The School of Medicine is a leader in medical research, teaching and patient care, consistently ranking among the top medical schools in the nation by U.S. News & World Report. Through its affiliations with Barnes-Jewish and St. Louis Children’s hospitals, the School of Medicine is linked to BJC HealthCare.
 

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"But it’s yet to be investigated whether those who endured more severe infection would be protected against a future bout of disease, they said. "

The $64,000 question. At one level, the report is good news, but evidence of an immune response is not the same as evidence of being effectively bulletproof, especially against newer variants that had not emerged at the time of the study. As I've noted here on many an occasion, "immunity" is not all-or-none. It is a graded phenomenon. So one could retain sufficient protection against a light infection of a virus that did not produce much viral load very quickly, but not against a variant that replicates quickly. That's the problem.
 

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"But it’s yet to be investigated whether those who endured more severe infection would be protected against a future bout of disease, they said. "

The $64,000 question. At one level, the report is good news, but evidence of an immune response is not the same as evidence of being effectively bulletproof, especially against newer variants that had not emerged at the time of the study. As I've noted here on many an occasion, "immunity" is not all-or-none. It is a graded phenomenon. So one could retain sufficient protection against a light infection of a virus that did not produce much viral load very quickly, but not against a variant that replicates quickly. That's the problem.
Getting some news that is cautiously optimistic is better than a lot of other news we have heard. It's what is needed now and then. Hope is better than dispair.
 

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Contracted covid-19 in February of 2020. I have a serious auto-immune disorder(Dermatomyositis) despite this my innate and adaptive immune systems obviously were still able to produce an adequate amount of anti-bodies that protected me from sinking into a deep state of infection that required hospitalization. According to the attached article it would appear that I may indeed have long term protection with antibody producing cells that could potentially last a lifetime. I should also mention that I have been leading a very healthy lifestyle for decades which includes proper diet, exercise and naturopathic approaches to health. This may have been the difference during my Covid infection that allowed me to pull through after feeling ill on and off for a month or so. Along with the aforementioned auto-immune disorder I have a couple other health issues putting me in the category of someone with co-morbidities. Also have had two previous close brushes with death unrelated to Covid,... so, nothing really rattles my cage anymore when it comes to my mortality,... or anything else for that matter.

Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection | Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis
Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection
People who have had mild illness develop antibody-producing cells that can last lifetime
by Tamara Bhandari•May 24, 2021
GETTY IMAGES
People who have had a mild case of COVID-19 are left with long-term antibody protection against future disease, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis.
Months after recovering from mild cases of COVID-19, people still have immune cells in their body pumping out antibodies against the virus that causes COVID-19, according to a study from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. Such cells could persist for a lifetime, churning out antibodies all the while.
The findings, published May 24 in the journal Nature, suggest that mild cases of COVID-19 leave those infected with lasting antibody protection and that repeated bouts of illness are likely to be uncommon.
“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” said senior author Ali Ellebedy, PhD, an associate professor of pathology & immunology, of medicine and of molecular microbiology. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.”

During a viral infection, antibody-producing immune cells rapidly multiply and circulate in the blood, driving antibody levels sky-high. Once the infection is resolved, most such cells die off, and blood antibody levels drop. A small population of antibody-producing cells, called long-lived plasma cells, migrate to the bone marrow and settle in, where they continually secrete low levels of antibodies into the bloodstream to help guard against another encounter with the virus.
The key to figuring out whether COVID-19 leads to long-lasting antibody protection, Ellebedy realized, lies in the bone marrow. To find out whether those who have recovered from mild cases of COVID-19 harbor long-lived plasma cells that produce antibodies specifically targeted to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, Ellebedy teamed up with co-author Iskra Pusic, MD, an associate professor of medicine. Ellebedy already was working with co-authors Rachel Presti, MD, PhD, an associate professor of medicine, and Jane O’Halloran, MD, PhD, an assistant professor of medicine, on a project to track antibody levels in blood samples from COVID-19 survivors.
The team already had enrolled 77 participants who were giving blood samples at three-month intervals starting about a month after initial infection. Most participants had had mild cases of COVID-19; only six had been hospitalized.
With Pusic’s help, Ellebedy and colleagues obtained bone marrow from 18 of the participants seven or eight months after their initial infections. Five of them came back four months later and provided a second bone marrow sample. An additional person who had recovered from COVID-19 gave bone marrow separately. For comparison, the scientists also obtained bone marrow from 11 people who had never had COVID-19.
As expected, antibody levels in the blood of the COVID-19 participants dropped quickly in the first few months after infection and then mostly leveled off, with some antibodies detectable even 11 months after infection. Further, 15 of the 19 bone marrow samples from people who had had COVID-19 contained antibody-producing cells specifically targeting the virus that causes COVID-19. Such cells could still be found four months later in the five people who came back to provide a second bone-marrow sample. None of the 11 people who had never had COVID-19 had such antibody-producing cells in their bone marrow.
“People with mild cases of COVID-19 clear the virus from their bodies two to three weeks after infection, so there would be no virus driving an active immune response seven or 11 months after infection,” Ellebedy said. “These cells are not dividing. They are quiescent, just sitting in the bone marrow and secreting antibodies. They have been doing that ever since the infection resolved, and they will continue doing that indefinitely.”
People who were infected and never had symptoms also may be left with long-lasting immunity, the researchers speculated. But it’s yet to be investigated whether those who endured more severe infection would be protected against a future bout of disease, they said.
“It could go either way,” said first author Jackson Turner, PhD, an instructor in pathology & immunology. “Inflammation plays a major role in severe COVID-19, and too much inflammation can lead to defective immune responses. But on the other hand, the reason why people get really sick is often because they have a lot of virus in their bodies, and having a lot of virus around can lead to a good immune response. So it’s not clear. We need to replicate the study in people with moderate to severe infections to understand whether they are likely to be protected from reinfection.”
Ellebedy and colleagues now are studying whether vaccination also induces long-lived antibody-producing cells.

Turner JS, Kim W, Kalaidina E, Goss CW, Rauseo AM, Schmitz AJ, Hansen L, Haile A, Klebert MK, Pusic I, O’Halloran JA, Presti RM, Ellebedy AH. SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans. Nature. May 24, 2021. DOI: 10.1038/s41586-021-03647-4
This study was supported by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), grant numbers U01AI1419901, U01AI150747 and 5T32CA009547 and contract numbers HHSN272201400006C, HHSN272201400008C and 75N93019C00051; the Norwegian Research Council, grant number 271160; and the University of Oslo’s National Graduate School in Infection Biology and Antimicrobials, grant number 249062. This study utilized samples obtained from the Washington University School of Medicine’s COVID-19 biorepository supported by the NIH/National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences, grant number UL1 TR002345.
Washington University School of Medicine’s 1,500 faculty physicians also are the medical staff of Barnes-Jewish and St. Louis Children’s hospitals. The School of Medicine is a leader in medical research, teaching and patient care, consistently ranking among the top medical schools in the nation by U.S. News & World Report. Through its affiliations with Barnes-Jewish and St. Louis Children’s hospitals, the School of Medicine is linked to BJC HealthCare.
Can you be tested for your level of immunity? If you get a pass on that then that should be considered just as effective and you should get a "bye" on being jabbed and get the same "certificate" as anybody else who's been vaccinated.
 

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Can you be tested for your level of immunity? If you get a pass on that then that should be considered as effective and you should get a "bye" on being jabbed and get the same "certificate" as anybody else who's been vaccinated.
That would make sense, however, from what I've been reading, that won't happen. Even federal employees that work from home are mandated to get jabbed. :unsure: 😕
 

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I know many people ready to fire up the ovens that will process the un-pure.

Wow, I didn't expect this kind of reaction for a video who's main gist is to be kind. Some advice that I could take myself sometimes.

Civilization has become so uncivilized.
 

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The same will hold for people that got dosed with something developed for the alpha (or wild?) variant using the spike protein only. We got lucky with Delta, that’s for sure. What happened to the hypothesis of more contagious but less lethal future variants? Is there a more contagious and more lethal working hypothesis? If so, that would be very scary. The future is hard to predict indeed.

"But it’s yet to be investigated whether those who endured more severe infection would be protected against a future bout of disease, they said. "

The $64,000 question. At one level, the report is good news, but evidence of an immune response is not the same as evidence of being effectively bulletproof, especially against newer variants that had not emerged at the time of the study. As I've noted here on many an occasion, "immunity" is not all-or-none. It is a graded phenomenon. So one could retain sufficient protection against a light infection of a virus that did not produce much viral load very quickly, but not against a variant that replicates quickly. That's the problem.
 

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"But it’s yet to be investigated whether those who endured more severe infection would be protected against a future bout of disease, they said. "

The $64,000 question. At one level, the report is good news, but evidence of an immune response is not the same as evidence of being effectively bulletproof, especially against newer variants that had not emerged at the time of the study. As I've noted here on many an occasion, "immunity" is not all-or-none. It is a graded phenomenon. So one could retain sufficient protection against a light infection of a virus that did not produce much viral load very quickly, but not against a variant that replicates quickly. That's the problem.
The problem is not whether those who have had the infection are more or less resilient to future variants; the problem is mass inoculation during a pandemic with a 'leaky' vaccine, which will drive the evolution of the virus, creating the dreaded escape mutants, which will run rampant in our society.
 

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The same will hold for people that got dosed with something developed for the alpha (or wild?) variant using the spike protein only. We got lucky with Delta, that’s for sure. What happened to the hypothesis of more contagious but less lethal future variants? Is there a more contagious and more lethal working hypothesis? If so, that would be very scary. The future is hard to predict indeed.
Here's an interesting paper on what happens with a 'leaky' vaccine, like the one we are being given now.

It's not too difficult to extrapolate the potential similarities between Marek's disease in domesticated animals, and Sars CoV2 in humans, and the possibilities of jumping species like other Avian Flus.

Here's a paper on how mRNA vaccines work. Some of the reading can be tedious (yes you should be practicing your scales) but there are rewards for knowledge for it's own sake.

Of special interest is this from the study....... In addition, we highlight the key strategies in designing mRNA vaccines to maximize the expression of immunogens and avoid intrinsic innate immune response.

This refers to how they change the immune response to get the jab into you (so the body doesn't see the substance as a foreign invader....which is what it is trained to do). Of subsequent interest is the possible relation to seeing an increase in shingles, Epstein Barr virus, and fast spreading cancers. Mostly word of mouth so far, reports from physicians in different countries, but a potential red flag.

 
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