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CTV website has a couple of interesting new reports.

In a related story, nurses are leaving the profession in droves. Working 120 hours in 2 weeks has resulted in burn out, mistakes, and loss of desire to be in the job anymore. This puts more pressure on those staying further agravating the situation and making it spiral larger. It also puts the situation for other medical treatments in jeopardy, delaying or even cancelling treatments that are required to save lives.
I have heard this. I have a bit of a hard time believing it though. I can see lots of them going on stress leave - but to walk away from a profession that can, even normally, pay extremely well for which they have taken much training, to go and work for $16 an hour at a call center just doesn't make sense.
 

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A vaccine is not some kind of magic bullet. They work as intended. If you remember what you are told every year about the flu shot- may prevent you from getting the flu and will lessen the chance of severe outcomes if you do get the flu.
Those who are getting Covid right now are mostly unvaccinated.
Here's the highlights from a recent report by Public Health Ontario;
Since the COVID-19 vaccination program began on December 14, 2020 and up to August 21, 2021, a total of 10,712,555 individuals in Ontario received at least one dose of vaccine including 9,756,368 individuals who are fully vaccinated. Of these individuals, only 18,051 became partially vaccinated cases and 3,782 became breakthrough (i.e. fully vaccinated) cases (Table 1).7
• The number of post-vaccination cases declines dramatically as time from vaccination increases (Figure 1).
• Only 9.3% of cases post-vaccination occurred 14 or more days after dose 2 administration and are considered breakthrough cases (Table 1).
• The rate of COVID-19 in unvaccinated individuals is higher compared to fully vaccinated individuals. This trend has remained consistent over time (Figure 2).
• In the past 30 days, unvaccinated individuals were approximately 8.0 times more likely to become a case of COVID-19 compared to fully vaccinated individuals (Figure 2).
• Among individuals 60 years of age or older, the rate of COVID-19-related hospitalizations was higher among unvaccinated individuals compared to fully vaccinated individuals. This trend has remained consistent over time (Figure 5).
• In the past 30 days, unvaccinated adults 60 years of age or older were approximately 22.8 times more likely to be hospitalized due to COVID-19 compared to fully vaccinated adults 60 years of age and older (Figure 5).
• Trends in partially vaccinated and breakthrough cases are a reflection of both trends in vaccine administration (increasing number of doses administered over time) and trends in COVID-19 incidence (Figure 3).
• Unvaccinated cases accounted for the majority (94.8%) of COVID-19 cases reported since December 14, 2020 and up to August 21, 2021, with breakthrough cases accounted for only 0.9% (Figure 4).
• Similar trends are observed for hospitalizations and deaths, with unvaccinated cases accounting for 92.4% of hospitalizations and 92.1% of deaths and breakthrough cases accounting for 0.9% of hospitalizations and 1.3% of deaths (Figure 4).
• Between February 3, 2021 (when routine mutation testing was implemented) and August 21, 2021, trends in variants of concern (VOCs) among vaccinated cases reflect trends in VOCs among all cases, with B.1.1.7 (Alpha) being the dominant strain from approximately March to June, and an increasing number of B.1.617.2 (Delta) reporting since May (Figure 7, Table 5). For additional information on VOCs among all COVID-19 cases, refer to the COVID-19 Daily Epidemiological Summary. 8
I agree that vaccines work. The one concern I have with the above numbers is that as of December 14th, everybody was unvaccinated so those numbers going back that far are skewed. Anything going back 30 days or so is a lot more meaningful to me.
 

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What's amazing is that this marketing strategy proceeded approval of the first vaccine (Pfizer) by a month.
Not really, they were well aware that it was coming. It's not hard to figure out that some people would have mixed or negative feelings about it. There's always some people that will push back against what is good for society, or themselves, just because it's been recommended. For instance, how many people don't put money in an RRSP? How many people smoke? (me). How many people eat bad food or have other unhealthy habits? (me again). How many people stay in bad relationships?
 

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but then you can't sue your surgeon if he botches your appendectomy either
There's a reason that they have malpractice insurance, isn't there?
Seriously, if you're still a "hold out" at this point I don't imagine a visit from Jesus in a burning chariot and a peer-reviewed commandment carved into a stone tablet is gonna change your mind.
I'm not anti-vax. I'm part of the 'wait and see' crowd. There's not enough valid information for me to make comfortable decision .. yet.
 
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Fingers crossed that you don’t get sick before you acquire the info you need. Sincerely.

I was in the same boat. I was waiting to see AND waiting until I could just get my shot as a walk-in. I figured, let the people that really want it get taken care of first while I see if they turn into zombies or not. So far so good.
 

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Fingers crossed that you don’t get sick before you acquire the info you need. Sincerely.

I was in the same boat. I was waiting to see AND waiting until I could just get my shot as a walk-in. I figured, let the people that really want it get taken care of first while I see if they turn into zombies or not. So far so good.
That's pretty well what I did. A mobile clinic twice, in and out.
 

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Those wacky Americans. Gotta protect the big corporations! To be honest I try not to pay too much attention to the goings on south of the border.
Keep in mind that a) there was an international request for a "rush" on vaccine development, b) the FDA scrutinized it and gave approval for "emergency use", and only recently gave full approval, and c) this was going to be used by an awful lot of people (and hopefully not a lot of awful people). If it was your product that you'd sunk many millions into, in order to respond to a worldwide emergency and requests from the highest levels of multiple governments, and it was rushed into emergency use, wouldn't you want some legal protection from those who had seen one too many "I was in a rear-ender, and Herb got me two million dollars for my auto injury!" ads on TV? I know if it was me, I'd be saying "I'm happy to be able to put in all that overtime and provide you this on such remarkably short notice, but if it's going to be put into widespread emergency use, by government clinics, AND you want nearly everyone to take it, as opposed to casual ads for 'Ask your doctor if <vaccine> is right for you', I'd like a little protection from liability for individual claims. I'm confident in the safety of the product. I'm less confident that, in this scramble, it would always be used as directed, with appropriate cautions, or that nobody will try to take advantage of the situation."

As well, keep in mind that if the vaccine did turn out to be nasty, even though individuals couldn't sue for damages, the federal government that provided all that seed money and financial incentives to develop and produce the vaccine, would certainly be gunning for the company. The drug company wouldn't have to contend with your nickel-and-dime lawyer, but they would have to contend with the Department of Justice.
 

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My post (which still exists as quoted in the above post). Was deleted for being “political”. I guess someone must have taken offence and whined to the mods. Was my comment really political in nature? It wasn’t intended to be, more like social commentary but I’m sure someone could have been offended. Thin skin I guess lol.
 

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Well it sure wasn't me. You can tell from my own comment that I didn't agree with you. But I'm not outraged or offended by what you said.

Of course, it raises an interesting question: is a deliberately nonpolitical response to a post someone may have objected to, that includes a segment of the objected-to post, worthy of being deleted because it quotes the "offensive" post? I suppose it would depend on how much of the deleted post is quoted, and which part. Still, an interesting question. Some ground-rules or basic common-sense principles from the mods would be nice, so that the innocent don't get dragged in.
 

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Well it sure wasn't me. You can tell from my own comment that I didn't agree with you. But I'm not outraged or offended by what you said.

Of course, it raises an interesting question: is a deliberately nonpolitical response to a post someone may have objected to, that includes a segment of the objected-to post, worthy of being deleted because it quotes the "offensive" post? I suppose it would depend on how much of the deleted post is quoted, and which part. Still, an interesting question. Some ground-rules or basic common-sense principles from the mods would be nice, so that the innocent don't get dragged in.
Agreed! The quoted bit was my whole post. I don’t see the problem...
Also Mark, I didn’t intend to suggest you reported it- the thought didn’t even cross my mind. I know you’re a better man than that
Strange days on this forum indeed. Things have definitely changed around here over the last while.
 

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Really?? I think it's glaringly obvious who this is.
I don't disagree. I sometimes wonder if Allain weaseled his way back in? lol
I get a chuckle at how they remain anonymous and post that in the 'alerts' section instead of 'conversation', where one can respond to them.
 

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Some ground-rules or basic common-sense principles from the mods would be nice, so that the innocent don't get dragged in.
When I trim threads, I end up deleting quoted posts as well, because to me, its silly to cook a post, then leave it up right underneath as a quote.

what "ground rules" are you having trouble understanding? The mods are more than willing to help ;)
 

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I'm not anti-vax. I'm part of the 'wait and see' crowd. There's not enough valid information for me to make comfortable decision .. yet.
Countless scientists are saying the vaccine is safe, and you provided a link to a site called "cracknewz"? I guess we can all have opinions, but I'm not sure how one can read anything from that site and believe it operates according to basic journalism standards. I actually went later to take a look at the study question. Here's their conclusion, which you can read at the end:

"This conclusion suggests that vaccination-generated antibody and/or exogenous antibody against S protein not only protects the host from SARS-CoV-2 infectivity but also inhibits S protein-imposed endothelial injury."

And here's an article that breaks down the problem with misinformation and the twisting of truth, focusing in that article you cited: COVID-19 Vaccines and Spike Proteins
 

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When I trim threads, I end up deleting quoted posts as well, because to me, its silly to cook a post, then leave it up right underneath as a quote.

what "ground rules" are you having trouble understanding? The mods are more than willing to help ;)
Awesome! Could you explain what was wrong with my post?
 

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And here's an article that breaks down the problem with misinformation and the twisting of truth, focusing in that article you cited: COVID-19 Vaccines and Spike Proteins
Their claims of a looming vaccine catastrophe brought about by vaccine-induced spike proteins fails to consider that the spike protein of vaccines is different than the natural form; that its engineered shape prevents activation; and that multiple elements confine spike protein expression to a highly localized collection of cells whose purpose is to activate the immunity vaccines are designed to produce.

Thanks for the link. This is why I think it's important that open dialogue not be suppressed so that opinions/information can be shared/dissected/corrected.
 
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Then I must have imagined all the talk about how this vaccine was the way out of the pandemic. If it was why are number still growing? Lots vaccinated here now….numbers still going up.

My point wasn’t to disparage the vaccine or to suggest that these alternative treatments actually work. The fact is, nothing is really working effectively now, despite what the powers that be are trying to make you believe. If it was, we wouldn’t be talking about it.
But it IS working. It just isn't working as quickly, miraculously, flawlessly, and problem-free as we would like. Again, I'll note that Ottawa has a fully-vaccinated rate of 81% (of everyone 12 and older) and climbing. With a population larger than that of Saskatchewan or South Dakota, both of which have much lower vaccination rates, our hospitalization and ICU rates from Covid are in the single digits. Daily case counts have "climbed" from low single digits to 30s and 40s. The per/100,000 rate is a small fraction of what is seen elsewhere. We reported the first death in 2 months the other day.

A person, and a community, still has to work with the vaccine. Vaccines don't and can't replace other similarly-proven public health measures. As I've said here repeatedly, until the case counts are the same as what I'd be comfortable with if they were polio, tuberculosis, smallpox, measles, ebola, flesh-eating disease, and lots of other things that still exist, but are rare enough that there is no one to catch them from, I will be masking and distancing.

Even a border collie knows you can't move a herd by standing in one spot and barking at it. You move around and approach it from multiple sides. Some things require a multi-faceted, multi-dimensional strategy to change.
 

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It just isn't working as quickly, miraculously, flawlessly, and problem-free as we would like.

The per/100,000 rate is a small fraction of what is seen elsewhere.
Maybe many, including me, are not ready to risk being part of that small fraction?

ie; Here's a bowl full of 100,000 M&M's, knowing that one or more of them may be poisoned. Would you still risk it and help yourself to them?
 

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I have heard this. I have a bit of a hard time believing it though. I can see lots of them going on stress leave - but to walk away from a profession that can, even normally, pay extremely well for which they have taken much training, to go and work for $16 an hour at a call center just doesn't make sense.
As I heard yesterday, in a number of cases, those "walking away" were approaching retirement age and adopted an "I'm getting too old for this s**t" attitude, deciding to retire early. In other instances, these were people who were nursing as a part-time job. If you're trying to raise a family, and can "afford" to work half time, but your employer now says "If you want to keep those 25hrs, we need you to work 40 until this passes", you reconsider how much you need those specific 25hrs.

There are different levels/credentials of nursing. Even if one is in the lowest-credentialed, lowest-paid category, and only working 25hrs a week, someone who works full and overtime for more pay is depending on you, and in your absence their job becomes harder. I have no idea what the attrition rate is. Many organizations experience annual attrition rates of 10% or higher. When an organization's functioning depends on informed cooperation between team members who know and trust each other to act quickly and efficiently when urgency is required, I can imagine even a 3% attrition rate can bugger things up.
 
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