The Canadian Guitar Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
OK, it's not quite shopping spree time, but.. planning for shopping spree time. I need some advice on a new amp (then, exactly what guitar I want might be more clear-- people have told me the amp is more important to your sound than the guitar)... I still feel a little green on all this, so it'd be nice to get a little feedback/reassurance. So excuse me while I explain my situation, and sorry for the length:

1) I’ve been playing for six months (I've done music for longer though), and I’ve a squire fat strat and the frontman practice amp that came with it.
Jumping into home recording soon, so I'd like a higher end rig.
--I'd prefer to not outgrow my gear in a few years (like I am w/ my squier).. but if that’s unavoidable, hopefully the resell value's solid-- so I think "high end" gear would be a good idea.
--I can also grow into a higher end rig—I'm not viciously picky about tone yet, but I may as well get a good rig and explore it. But yeah, bottom line is if it sounds good to me, then I'll get it.

2) The sounds I like: Alice In Chains, Tool, A Perfect Circle, Queens Of The Stone Age, Smashing Pumpkins. In general: Thick, heavy, distorted, but still mellow, with some dreamy psychedelic tones too. I like fusion, but I'll go one step at a time. Those bands in mind, I'm thinking a Les Paul axe.

3) My current budget for a guitar AND amp is ~$2500-3k. If it's something that's solid re-sell value and quite useful, I could possibly go higher, I think. Budget's not set in stone, but just to give you an idea.

And... I was also curious what other folk thought of the Edmonton used market.. I haven't looked that long or know enough to compare with other cities :p But used would be ideal so I'm looking around.

Now the gear:

1) The amp (been told again and again that it’s most important for your sound).
a) 50-100 watt tube amp since I’m recording at home [noise isn't a huge issue], some jamming, small gigs (mic'd to the PA at that). Lots and lots of home practice will be done on it.
b) I don’t mind a learning curve on it, but I don’t want to get blown away :p Being new to tone nuances, I won't die if it's not perfect for every genre I get into. I can always add to my rig later if I want.

Suggestions I've had.. Mesa Mark IV (perhaps too complicated for right now? I have synthesizer background so I don't mind programming), other Mesa amps (the other Marks, the Stiletto Deuce & Trident or Ace. But I hear repair for Mesa is more pricy and harder to do), Peavey 5150/6505, the Marshall JCM series (lots of people love their Marshalls, but I've heard of some Marshalls being nightmares to maintain too-- maybe just bad eggs).

2) Now... the guitar I was looking at, I think it's called, "Probably depends on what I've got left after the amp". Maybe an Epi LP Custom/Epi Elitist LP Custom, and add Seymour Duncan pups later. Or instead a used Gibson LP Studio for around the same cost, someone suggested (the resell value is a factor in choosing the Gibson). Used shopping for axes is tough because I'm picky about color, though, and I'm not 100% about Edmonton's used market. And if a modded Epi sounds acceptably close to a Gibson, the need for decent resell value is kind of moot point for me, I'd just keep it. But I have a feeling I'd need at least an Elitist to do that.

In sum I feel comfortable with the idea of an LP of some sort, but the amp issue I am pretty unsure on.

Phew! Well, I think that's all the important info. And thanks for reading everything. A lot of my considerations were because of this forum, so thanks to everyone :D I've learnt quite a bit being here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
Why are you so focused on resell value? You're buying it to use, not to sell, aren't you? Get what feels good and sounds good to you... I would go:

Used Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier - about $1700

Avatar G212H Special 2x12 Cab w/ Vintage 30's - about $520 after taxes and shipping.

Epiphone Les Paul Custom - $635 new.


Or


New Peavey 6505+ and the matching 4x12 - $1959.99 (+ taxes).

New Epiphone Les Paul Custom - $635.

It's all up to you... go try them out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,039 Posts
For jamming, small gigs, home recording, etc., 50-100 tube amp watts is likely overkill. You might want to think 15-40 watts (at most). With a 15 watter, you can crank it and get full power tube saturation. Loud enough for jamming, small gigs w/o mikes. Of course, if you have Mongo on the drums, miking would be a necessity.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
154 Posts
If you don't care about clean tones, give the Orange Tiny Terror a try. Will cover the tones you mention at bedroom to band practice volumes. Don't let the simple controls fool you, lots of great tones.

If you have your heart set on a Les Paul, get one. Also would suggest you try the PRS SE line of guitars. IMO the best made and sounding import guitars in the market.

Most importantly..... have fun !!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
If you go with a edwards lp , an avatar cab , and a used tube amp , you can have almost any head you want .
Personally I'd recommend a used vetta 1 and upgrade the software to 2.5 . It's very very versatile , no maintenance because there is not tube , it sounds the same cranked or at bedroom volume , etc . Plus it's really easy to use .
But if you want to go tube , you should look at something like a mark IV or something else with at least to channel .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,909 Posts
I think the Edmonton used market can be good for amps, not so good on guitars. You really have to have some patience and watch for what you want.

If you want to retain value, buy used. Watch the classifieds here, I've seen some really good deals on here.

I'm a firm believer if you want a Les Paul, buy a Gibson. Used Studios and Classics can be had pretty cheap. I wouldn't be as concerned with the color as much as how you like the feel, playability and tone of the guitar.

There are good Marshalls and there are bad Marshalls, do your research before you buy. And there are tons of other good amps out there.

As someone said above, a 15 - 30 watt tube amp is probably all you ever need. If you are miking thru a PA, even 30 is probably overkill. Keep in mind, different manufacturers rate their wattages differently. 50 watts from Marshall can be one hell of a lot louder than 50 watts from someone else.

Take your time, do your research, watch the used market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Look for something Canadian made. Trinity amps are excellent. The 18 watt Marshall clone will be as loud as a 50 watt Marshall. Check out Stephen's website for sound files and the support forum etc.The tech support is excellent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
I'd say look around at some local builders and try their stuff, go into a guitar shop try all their amps out, and see what you like.

Mesa Boogie Mark IV
Mesa Boogie Lonestar
Marshall Plexi Rissue
Diezel amps
Peavey JSX
Peavey Classic 50
Dr.Z amps
etc..

Just to name some nice amps and brands.

For guitars
Some good guitar companies, ESP, Jackson, Ibanez, Fender, etc..

Why are you so focused on resell value? You're buying it to use, not to sell, aren't you? Get what feels good and sounds good to you... I would go:

Used Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier - about $1700

Avatar G212H Special 2x12 Cab w/ Vintage 30's - about $520 after taxes and shipping.

Epiphone Les Paul Custom - $635 new.
Triple Recto ? thats 150 Watts of tube.. you will have no need of this probably for the rest of your life. Your distortion will sound terrible becuse you won't be able to crank the amp.
Plus replacing all the power tubes would cost quite a bit.

Duel Recto would be fine, or even the Single.

---Like Vio said though, don't go for resale value, go for Tone and Feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
Well he said "noise isn't a huge issue", so why the hell not go big? Lol, I live in the middle of nowhere and I've had friends bring over 150w and 120w heads and we crank 'em through 2 4x12s... I crank my 100w Marshall quite often too. Throw an overdrive pedal in front of it, crank the bitch and it's time for metal, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
Well he said "noise isn't a huge issue", so why the hell not go big? Lol, I live in the middle of nowhere and I've had friends bring over 150w and 120w heads and we crank 'em through 2 4x12s... I crank my 100w Marshall quite often too. Throw an overdrive pedal in front of it, crank the bitch and it's time for metal, lol.
+1 to that . There a lot of us playing/rehearsing unmiked , and with a loud drummer , I'm happy to have a half stack .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Awesome, didn't expect so many responses :D I really appreciate it.

Funny that I read a few times that 50 watts would do well for what I wanted. lol 15-40 watts sounds good. Noise isn't a huge issue, but I think 150 watts might make it one ;) thanks for the suggestion though. Don't know if I could handle recording 150 cranked watts all in my room (likely won't be recording much anywhere else). 15 watts lightens the financial load though.. I thought I'd have to get a stack, but at 15 they are only combos in my understanding.

And thanks dwagar, didn't know the wattage was different depending on the brand... I definitely need to look into that (and a whole lot of other things)

Good amp suggestions. I'll look at the used market for quite a while, and scout out a few amps at stores.

Oh, one other question. Personally I could care less as I think my playing ought to speak loudest at a gig, not my amp.. but I've been getting some vibes from some places I've read at (don't remember where unfortunately) that you need a decent sized amp to be taken seriously at gigs, auditions, etc. so walking around with a small 15 watt amp makes you look a little.. strange. Any truth to this? I just figured if it was functional, people could care less, but perhaps not. (edit: And I don't mean stage presence, which is something different altogether to me. I just meant within the musician community. Obviously I haven't networked enough to know)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
154 Posts
but I've been getting some vibes from some places I've read at (don't remember where unfortunately) that you need a decent sized amp to be taken seriously at gigs, auditions, etc. so walking around with a small 15 watt amp makes you look a little.. strange. Any truth to this?
First I have heard of that. Most bands mic their amps and run them through the PA. Stage volume is all you are trying to accomplish with your amp. I use either a Tiny Terror ( sometimes on half power which is 7 watts) or my Bad Cat Hot Cat which is 30 watts. Cabinets are either 1x12 or 2x12 depending on the venue. Never had anyone ask me to "turn it up".

As an example this clip is recorded in our practice room. Orange Tiny Terror ( 15 Watts) volume at 12 o'clock through a 2x12. The drummer is playing a large Ayotte drum kit which projects real well, the bass player a SVT 3 Pro ( 450 watts) into a 4x10. No problem hearing me :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
Oh, one other question. Personally I could care less as I think my playing ought to speak loudest at a gig, not my amp.. but I've been getting some vibes from some places I've read at (don't remember where unfortunately) that you need a decent sized amp to be taken seriously at gigs, auditions, etc. so walking around with a small 15 watt amp makes you look a little.. strange. Any truth to this? I just figured if it was functional, people could care less, but perhaps not. (edit: And I don't mean stage presence, which is something different altogether to me. I just meant within the musician community. Obviously I haven't networked enough to know)
There is some truth to that . You'll probably come across a lot of people thinking :

1 Marshall(or any other brand) is the best . They don't even listen to how it sounds : A 100$ marshall mg is better than any bogner or diezel .

2 More watts = better

3 A big amp is useless

but at the end of the day , your playing is what matters the most . As long as you get heard , and sound good , you shouldn't have anyone saying " You're not playing here unless you have a stack" .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
I just auditioned for a band with a 20watt solid state amp while the other guitarist played through a marshall mg head through a 412. I had no problem hearing myself (though his volume was on 4 and I was cranked!). having a small amp wasn't a problem for them though thankfully cause I'm sure as hell not buying a stack for the small gigs we'll be playing..

my point is, why would you want to play with people that think that the number of speakers determines how good you are?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
my point is, why would you want to play with people that think that the number of speakers determines how good you are?
Makes sense to me. Thanks for the input fellas :D

I definitely want to take a Tiny Terror for a spin, among other amps... it sounds good.

I've also gotten more interested in Godin guitars, like the LG HB (lots of mahogany) or LG Sig, although all I've heard is that the LG's aren't fit for heavier metal... but we'll see when I get my hands on one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
if i where you id go for the epi lp and mod it up with gibby pots and seymour pups maybe screamin deamons or the dimebuckers


as for amps...
mesa or maybe a krank if even just like a small peavey classic 50 or something

and id just forget about the colour go for the feel of the guitar and when you find the right amp you will just know :rockon:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
if i where you id go for the epi lp and mod it up with gibby pots and seymour pups maybe screamin deamons or the dimebuckers
I just recently completed such an epi LP mod on my guitar. I was debating whether to make a thread to discuss the changes I made and the tonal difference but then I figure the subject has been debated frequently on the web so what's the point. To make a long story short, I changed the pups (bareknuckle mules), pots, the nut from plastic to bone and I had the frets dressed cause of buzzing issues but that I suppose isn't a must. The guitar now plays like a dream and sounds absolutely amazing. I tried comparing it to gibsons at L&M but I wasn't able to play at high enough of a volume to make a good comparison. However, it seemed to me neither guitar sounded better than the other, just different. This says a lot when comparing a $2500 gibby and a $400 epi with $400 worth of upgrades.

If you decide to go this route I'd suggest buying used and listen carefully to how the guitar sounds when played acoustically. If you're gonna change the pickups to what you like, it'll improve the plugged in sound but if it sounds bad acoustically and has many problems (intonation, tuning etc)...well sh** in sh** out...

lastly, keep an open mind about guitars you wouldn't think you'd like. I wasn't much of a LP guy but when I tried the epi I have now, it just sat very comfortably in my hands, the neck felt great, everything just clicked. All the while I was looking for a metal type guitar like a shecter or LTD, most of which I just didn't end up liking. I think part of the reason I liked mine so much is cause of the thicker neck. I have big hands so this made things a bit easier for me. The point is, sometimes some factor you're not aware of may make a guitar better for you than you'd expect, so try a lotta stuff :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
With that budget I would definitely get a good amp. I'm still looking for one!

I'd look into a Reverend guitar, and maybe a Mesa Boogie Duel Rectifier (2 channel) head or a Fender Twin Reverb.

I maybe missed it, but what sort of music do you play?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,942 Posts
.
Triple Recto ? thats 150 Watts of tube.. you will have no need of this probably for the rest of your life. Your distortion will sound terrible becuse you won't be able to crank the amp.
Plus replacing all the power tubes would cost quite a bit.

Duel Recto would be fine, or even the Single.

---Like Vio said though, don't go for resale value, go for Tone and Feel.
you're off your rocker if you think that the distortion will sound terrible just because you have 150W. that's massive headroom and tight low end, not necessarily zero preamp distortion. you're aware that 150W isnt much louder then 100W, righ? i dont see anyone ragging on 5150/6505/jsx guys for having 120W heads - and yes, i get power amp drive as well.

just saying :)

with 3k you could get a carvin made to your specs and a used dual recto and 212 cab and be off to the races. for the next 10 years..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,154 Posts
With that budget I would definitely get a good amp. I'm still looking for one!

I'd look into a Reverend guitar, and maybe a Mesa Boogie Duel Rectifier (2 channel) head or a Fender Twin Reverb.

I maybe missed it, but what sort of music do you play?

Yeah, a good amp that is right for the style of music you want to play is the most important purchase. Notice how music stores let you try out their guitars through a good amp, not the cheap 50$ practice ones? A good amp will make your cheap guitar sound great while a cheap amp will make your expensive guitar sound terrible.

According to the reviews it's had in this forum, the Reverend line of guitars seems like it offers good intermediate guitars for the price.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top