[Blind Dog]

EDIT: If you're searching for quick info, skip thru to jdto, & Knight-yyz posts -- for facts, links, and forms. And I would recommend starting your own thread -- definitely helpful during the shipping process. Thanks everyone. Oh! And cookies help.

Has anyone shipped a rosewood guitar, from Europe, to Canada? Or US to Canada?

I have the Cites permit leaving European country, not keen on any surprise(s) at our border.

They tend to 'confiscate' items with incorrect/incomplete Cites documentation.

Spent a lot of time searching Canadian info. Talks mostly about possum, sturgeon, and caviar. I didn't know rich folks ate possum eggs. Nothing on wood. Site 'contact info' (Cites) says, '...we're likely too busy, doing Cites stuff, to answer your Cites question.' -- last updated 2004. So proud eh.

Thanks.

 

[Randall Moyle]

My advice is to phone Canada Border Services. They have an information number and they deal with all CITES matters when it comes to imports. Tell them what papers you have and what you intend to import. Above all - Get the officers name and keep it until the transaction is completed. However if you are just bringing in one instrument, don't be surprised if the whole CITES thing is waved off. The purpose of the law is not to hamper individuals. its really to prevent large shipments of commercial rosewood from getting into Canada. And in the unlikely event you have any problem during import, give the name of the person you spoke to and the date. Generally conflicting information is ruled in the favour of the importer.

 

[Guest]

Record the phone call.

 

[Alex]

I had a guitar shipped from Germany at the beginning of the year with a permit. The permit was hand written and signed by the dealer. The German customs did open the box but no issues on my end.

 

[knight_yyz]

I got my rosewood board Greco from Japan with no problems, no paperwork for Cites but that was back when they first mentioned the new rules and nothing was setup. I think the farther into the year we go the more people will have problems as Canada sets up the agents they need

 

[Electraglide]

Record the phone call.

The house phone here is always recorded....but not by us.

 

[Guest]

The house phone here is always recorded....but not by us.

Access to information request...

 

[jdto]

A quick Google search found me this Environment Canada page with current info:

Environment and Climate Change Canada - Nature - Application forms for CITES-listed plants

There is an import permit form and info sheet for wood products at the bottom of the page that specifically mentions guitars. That may get you on the right track.

 

[Blind Dog]

Thanks guys. I've tried the phone, and that number (on form: 1 888 732-6222 is out of service) and it connects to an automated voice that tells you to press 1 for the new number. Then information comes on the line, and grudgingly tells you to hold for the number. The number? You guessed it -- 1 800 461 9999 -- the automated 'service' that does not include non-commercial info.

I have emailed (on form: cites at ec.gc.ca) a query, and I will update as I get info. Not holding my breath. But I started smoking. Again. I'll quit again when the guitar gets here/I'm incarcirated.

(A very gracious gentleman, Harry. RIP)

Only number available for Canada Border Services (my books & 'information') is the automated number.

 

[DaddyDog]

I see you live in near espresso. Not sure if that's near the border, but this week I had a guitar shipped to Niagara Falls, NY. I drove across the border, picked it up, came back and paid duty. Absolutely no mention of CITES. Since I'm carrying it across, it's not supposed to need a permit.

 

[Electraglide]

Access to information request...

Don't need to. I know who's recording. Your tax dollars at work.

 

[Blind Dog]

Well no answer from Big Bro' yet. We're going to have to go with karma.

UPS called. One of those automated message deals. It shows on call display as, "BROKER(@)UPS.COM". If I had it to do over again; I would let it go to voicemail, so I had a recording of the info. They want to know who my broker is, and lmk that they would be, "Happy!" to do that for me.

I emailed them (subject line brokerage tracking number was provided in phone call), "What it the cost of brokering thru UPS? I was informed that there would be no brokerage fee because it was being shipped "expedited" and would be here "second day". I'm old, and I figured it was (as usual) bullshit. Regards, ..."

So far the expedited package is traveling at a blistering average of 19.32 km per hour.

Its location is currently Paris/Roissy Charles de Gaulle, France. I sure hope they can get that package going a little faster, before they hit the end of the runway.

EDIT: pilot must have wanted a cheese steak -- sitting in Philly (5:00 am pacific on the 18th). No reply back on the broker charge, or CITES permit. Average speed has now topped 91 km per hour.

EDIT: (Friday the 18th 10:30 am pt.) in Louisville, and UPS Julie emailed that there was a misunderstanding, I was correct, and brokerage fees did not apply. Still nothing on CITES. It hits the border tomorrow -- Sat..
Still ETA of Tuesday before 8 pm.
@(*UY

 

[Blind Dog]

Almost one month after first attempting to find out about CITES, I received a reply from the info on the form jdto provided the link to. No other queries had been replied to.

Apparently Louisville is the Custom's clearance. (US or Canada?) Two hours after it hit Customs/clearing, I was cautioned by CITES Canada to hold the guitar until I received permit. I've been assured it will be detained, and that once detained there is no possible way to get a permit. The export permit does not (even though my name & address is on the CITES permit)(and the shop's owner said the CITES permit was "ONLY good for YOU" {me}, and I paid for it) carry over to the import country. I have been assured the guitar will be confiscated. It comes with a CITES export label that will surely 'tip' them off. Almost four grand, and a ton of work, and stress -- down the tube. In addition there will likely be a substantial fine.

I'll update when it's official, and post around the various forums warning others.

Caveat emptor ...

*#*(



EDIT: Received "Exception" notice from UPS. My package has not been cleared, and will not be arriving on its scheduled delivery date. A wise man once said, "... that sucks." He weren't lying.

%h(*&

(Edit: I've edited this post to clarify the timeline. The question now is whether Canadian Customs is in fact the same as Louisville "clearing", and whether the seller/shipper can have the package returned, before hitting Customs -- which UPS said would not be until tomorrow. I've emailed UPS & seller but no reply from seller, or UPS. I figure I'll get an email telling me my request has been processed, about two hours after I get notification the guitar has been seized. Looks pretty hopeless at this point.)

 

[jdto]

Ah man, that sucks.

 

[Blind Dog]

The owner of the shop assures me that this is the 7th guitar he's shipped to N. America this year (6 US, 1 Cdn.), and that he's certain of the CITES process. He says the Canadian government generates the CITES paperwork after UPS processes the export one. He says that's why UPS has the "exception" and notified me that the delivery is delayed -- they're doing their end of things. He says the importer cannot generate the import permit without the export one. Sounds very sure. I'm not. The Canadian CITES guy sounded just as sure.

Whatever will be will be.

(He's also completely certain nobody can confiscate the guitar with the CITES permit enclosed. Worst case: it's late. I got a bad, bad, feeling tho. & I hate drama.)

EDIT: another email from seller (big shop). I think he's been re-checking his info, and he's certain the guitar can not be confiscated as the CITES permit he obtained protects the shipment for thirty days -- specifically from confiscation -- so that if there is a problem he has time to get it back. He's reassuring, and not taking my concerns lightly. Worst case: really late. I feel a little better. Still awake tho. Time for a cookie, or two. & the Larrivee.

 

[greco]

Following this with much interest and hope that you are playing a new guitar very soon and all this stress is behind you.

 

[Blind Dog]

Thanks greco. I hope you & Mrs. greco are well.

Healey's well, Cathy's well, and well I've got a really great Larrivee in my lap. I've got no right to be cussing my luck.

EDIT: IT'S OFFICIAL

Second cookie kicked in!

And thanks jdto, for the form, and the wise words.

Edit: no seriously. UPS just updated status 4:44. It cleared Louisville, apparently, and it's making its run for the border. There's a 'departure scan' anyways. The original Tues. delivery date has been restored. Still no clue on why Louisville has a big say. PofE to the US maybe. And nothing is happening as predicted. Except for those who figured it was about time for cookie number three.

 

[knight_yyz]

Agents. They don't want to hire a bucket load so all Cites stuff will have to go through Louisville. I'm not sure how many entry points to Canada there are, but to train that many agents to tell rosewood from any other type of wood is going to cost bucks they don't want to spend. A few specialists in one place is probably better in the long run.

 

[Blind Dog]

That makes sense knight_yyz. Thanks. If their specialty is wood, and they let it go, I'm feeling a lot better. Cool pieces in your sig' btw.

Maybe I'm just being dense, but I thought the fuss was about African/Brazilian 'rosewood'. Mine's Indian. I think appendix 1 is for A/B, & appendix 2 is for 'Indian' (all Dalbergia protected {genus} mine's latafolia -- "Dalbergia latafolia" on export form). I thought CITES was to have a uniform approach internationally. And while I'm no big fan of the big brown piece of truck, how can they broker with missing doc's? I thought that's what they did as a broker. Manage documents. I dunno ... I don't import a lot of rosewood guitars.

The chap I'm dealing with, Erno, certainly seems like a serious chap when it comes to customer service. The buying process was extremely straightforward. Not casual about things. I like that when I'm sending a stranger a lot more than I would care to lose.

Reverb says appendix two doesn't need an import permit for US, but Canada may be different. The CITES international tables are pretty confusing. I thought I was good to go though.

Maybe I'm putting too much faith in TV, but those border guys seem to be pretty strong on, if you ain't trying to slide something past them, they ain't out to get you. Taking an old man's guitar would be just plain mean. They look like such nice folks. Except for that one guy.

Nothing I can do about anything now. I'm just along for the ride.

UPS update. The guitar's in Seattle -- six am local time. I wouldn't mind if it picked up a little grunge. I'm not big on brand new looking guitars.

Another UPS update just came in. The guitar's in Kamloops as of 6:58. I've never been so relieved to be told I owe UPS a bunch of money. No delivery date set yet, but I'll assume it's Monday. And get some freakin' sleep. Right after I make an,

"I'm home.
I'm watching.
Don't pull that door tag crap on me!" sign, and tape it over the knob.

 

[greco]

Did I miss it somewhere in this thread or is the guitar being shipped intended to be a mystery/surprise for us? (i.e., make and model)