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Discussion Starter #1
You MUST see this film. You MUST take your kids.
Al Gore lays it all out on the table. So simple even a six year old could understand what is happening to our planet ( evidently not simple enough for a Bush or Harper or Ambrose to understand). I was shocked coming out of the theatre.
Listen I'm not a tree hugger (the fact I own 20-30 amps and play them at peak energy times with the airconditioner going full blast proves I have no regard to brown or black outs) But facts are facts. We are moving VERY quickly into a very dark (and hot) future. This will happen in our lifetime, not some distant generation.
Before any of you start that have jobs in the oil or automotive industry. It's not about you or your jobs, it's about life, yours and mine. Things have to change..FAST !!!!! Just go see this film before you comment.
The end of the film has some small things we can do to make a difference. These are things that can happen tomorrow and will help.
Sorry if I have upset or offended anyone that might read this. But when you see this film I promise you WILL be upset.


Pete
 

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I haven't seen this movie but you really don't need to to figure out something is changing. Our storms are getting more severe, weather patterns have changed, the sun is no longer good for us in prolonged cases. Animals have moved regions the list can go on. I feel for the next generation, there quality of life will see even more drastic changes. By the way just some trivia but did you know that there is a great big rock floating by us in space today, just slightly further out than the moon. They call it Asteroid XP14.
 

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well throughout the history of the earth there has been ice ages and hot times. This has nothing to do with the creatures living there.
 

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I'm no scientist and I don't claim to know anything about the subject, nor have I seen this film yet. I can say that in my 44 years I have noticed that the sun is increasingly stronger. When we were kids we played outside in the summer all the time, far more than the kids today do and we never wore sunscreen. I can recall getting 2-3 good sunburns growing up, mostly from spending a full day on the water or something like that.

Today you can't spend more than 30 minutes in direct sunlight without getting some kind of burn. If you are going out on the water or spending the day at the beach you have to be drenched in sunblock or you are looking for a severe burn.

So this has to have some effect on something in my non scientific opinion. In terms of the recent bad weather down south, especially the last few years, who knows what's up with that or if it is some kind of cycle.
 

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Xanadu said:
well throughout the history of the earth there has been ice ages and hot times. This has nothing to do with the creatures living there.
No but the creatures move as there climate changes, like the birds in the winter...
 

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Climate is never constant, its always changing. For every scientist on the global warming scenerio side there is one on the ice age scenerio side. All data is subject to interpretation because the data we have is spread over such a short time period that any extrapolation is conjecture. I havent seen the movie, but I will eventually. I just wish a scum bag like Al Gore wasnt part of it, because his involvement taints the whole arguement.............
 

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There are several debates that always seem to get mixed up here and add to the confusion.

1. Are humans responsible for global warming? (melting ice, warming oceans)
2. Are humans resonsible for the depletion of the ozone layer? (increased radiation)
3. Is global warming in fact occurring?

While the first two may still be open for debate, although I think we are contributing to at least some degree, the third is pretty obviously, YES. Water that has been frozen for 20,000+ years is melting rapidly, worldwide. What strikes me as odd is the "We are not responsible therefore it is'nt happening" response. It doesn't matter whether people are responsible for global warming or not, we still have to deal with it. I doubt if there is anything we can do to stop it, but no one seems to be making any plans for surviving it. 90% of the world's population lives near the coast, a lake, or a river.
 

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Well in most of there debates the depletion of the ozone is the cause for global warming and I think bottom line that we are responsible for the depletion of the ozone layer as in industry, automobiles etc.
As for the third, yes it is happening, that's why I live in the hills....:D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Accept2 said:
Climate is never constant, its always changing. For every scientist on the global warming scenerio side there is one on the ice age scenerio side. All data is subject to interpretation because the data we have is spread over such a short time period that any extrapolation is conjecture. I havent seen the movie, but I will eventually. I just wish a scum bag like Al Gore wasnt part of it, because his involvement taints the whole arguement.............

Oh, there is no argument. As is pointed out in the film there are NO scientists that A) disagree that it is happening and B) have any doubt that we are responsible. No matter whose payroll they are on.
There are only blind politicians that put their head in the sand. They are the only ones that say it is a theory. Also there is no "interpertation" of hard facts that have been collected since the mid-1950's. It is getting hotter faster (way faster) than any other time in modern history.
As for Al Gore, I really knew nothing about him till the past little while. But now I wish he had really fought hard for what was his win in the infamous US election 6 years ago. It would be a far different world right now. I'm happy there is someone like him taking this on.
Just go see the movie with a bit of an open mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Xanadu said:
well throughout the history of the earth there has been ice ages and hot times. This has nothing to do with the creatures living there.
Oh and thank you Dr. Xanadu for your insightful comment.
 

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faracaster said:
Oh, there is no argument. As is pointed out in the film there are NO scientists that A) disagree that it is happening and B) have any doubt that we are responsible. No matter whose payroll they are on.
There are only blind politicians that put their head in the sand. They are the only ones that say it is a theory. Also there is no "interpertation" of hard facts that have been collected since the mid-1950's. It is getting hotter faster (way faster) than any other time in modern history.
As for Al Gore, I really knew nothing about him till the past little while. But now I wish he had really fought hard for what was his win in the infamous US election 6 years ago. It would be a far different world right now. I'm happy there is someone like him taking this on.
Just go see the movie with a bit of an open mind.
A - Really. So no scientist in the entire world believes global warming is a myth, or just the scientists they present in the film?
B - Really, again there are no scientists on the planet that think its natural for the earths climate to change over time? The fact that Egypt was a jungle before it was a desert is our fault? Was car traffic and factory production on the Nile that bad back then?

I love documentary films but they really are biased and only should be viewed as entertainment to show one point of view. Ive seen Supersize Me and Bowling for Columbine about 50 times each, but luckily I know where truth stops and fantasy begins in these documentaries. Remember there are 3 sides to every story and to base your judgement on a movie made by a documentary film maker is not the way to do things. You should counterbalance and watch a documentary on the opposite side of the arguement. Of course it may end up being which side is presented better than the other, rather than which side is right. After all the scientists picked will be biased on the data they collected, and the filmmaker has decided before he started making the film which side will be presented as being right. As for the watcher, they arent really experts at all, and can only judge on what is being presented.

As for good ole Al, there were lots of nervous people in the music and film industry that were very nervous of his running for President. In fact he threatented them if he did win, he would change the face of entertainment. When he was in the US Senate hanging around religious cretins, his war on music and TV were quite repelling. To only create music and movies that glorified god to me makes him a religious nutcase. Censorship works though, ask Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Al Gore..............
 

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regardless of all the chit chat bottom line is our climate is changing, weather.. we like it or not. We/future generations will have to adapt to this. The sun is more dangerous and skin cancers are increasing, our storms more violent causing damage. Enjoy today in the future we may be living in domes.
It seems sci fi eventually becomes reality...scary.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Accept2 said:
A - Really. So no scientist in the entire world believes global warming is a myth, or just the scientists they present in the film?
B - Really, again there are no scientists on the planet that think its natural for the earths climate to change over time? The fact that Egypt was a jungle before it was a desert is our fault? Was car traffic and factory production on the Nile that bad back then?

I love documentary films but they really are biased and only should be viewed as entertainment to show one point of view. Ive seen Supersize Me and Bowling for Columbine about 50 times each, but luckily I know where truth stops and fantasy begins in these documentaries. Remember there are 3 sides to every story and to base your judgement on a movie made by a documentary film maker is not the way to do things. You should counterbalance and watch a documentary on the opposite side of the arguement. Of course it may end up being which side is presented better than the other, rather than which side is right. After all the scientists picked will be biased on the data they collected, and the filmmaker has decided before he started making the film which side will be presented as being right. As for the watcher, they arent really experts at all, and can only judge on what is being presented.

As for good ole Al, there were lots of nervous people in the music and film industry that were very nervous of his running for President. In fact he threatented them if he did win, he would change the face of entertainment. When he was in the US Senate hanging around religious cretins, his war on music and TV were quite repelling. To only create music and movies that glorified god to me makes him a religious nutcase. Censorship works though, ask Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Al Gore..............

We are all biased period. But just so you know. I have come from the theory/disbelief side. And this is where I stand now. As I said there are NO actual scientists that will say we are not responsible in full or part for what has happened and is happening. I'd like to see your info on this as I am opened minded. I can certainly provide my side if you have any interest.
Actually as far the censorship issue was concerned it was Al's wife Tipper that wanted a sticker put on CD's to warn parents of language and content.i am a pearent of two and have been a musician almost all of my life. I donot see any problem calling a spade a spade. I don't want my ten year old listening to certain things profane lyrically. He has all the time in the world to live with that the rest of his life. I believe that has come to pass and I don't see that stifling any "Creative" or "Artistic" process. And yes censorship works through those mentioned but, I'll add a few..... Ronald Reagan, George Bush sr,. George Bush jr, Stephen Harper, Jean Crietien,...... want some more?
Keep your head high and ear to the ground and question what has been force fed us.
 

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It DOES matter who's at fault!

Someone in this thread commented that it doesn't matter if global warming is manmade or a natural phenomenon. I fail to see his reasoning.

If it's caused by man then it should be within our power to correct it. Spending vast sums of money and making fuel so expensive that Canadians shiver all the way through the winter (with a number of old folks dying each time) is justified to save us all.

If it's a natural cycle then making us all poor and shivering is a total unnecessary waste of time! And life!

Only if we're sure of what's happening can we choose practical methods to fix it! If we keep dinking around with politics and leftwing business bashing then we'll probably all die! Mother Nature doesn't give a damn if we all curse Bush together...

If there's a real problem only true scientists will find the solution. If my amp is broken I don't think a man like Al Gore is a good choice to fix it. The same with global warming issues. A poly-sci graduate may be articulate but rarely can he even put a new plug on a lamp.

He sure can con you into parting with your money, though...
 

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Wild Bill said:
Someone in this thread commented that it doesn't matter if global warming is manmade or a natural phenomenon. I fail to see his reasoning.
I think that was me, Bill. The point I was trying to make was that global warming is happening whether you believe humans are responsible or not, as there are some who believe that "humans are not responsible therefore it isn't happening". It doesn't matter if it's manmade or natural insofar as proving global warming is a real phenomenon.
 

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Great minds think alike...

Lester B. Flat said:
I think that was me, Bill. The point I was trying to make was that global warming is happening whether you believe humans are responsible or not, as there are some who believe that "humans are not responsible therefore it isn't happening". It doesn't matter if it's manmade or natural insofar as proving global warming is a real phenomenon.
Agreed! And things do seem to be getting a bit warmer. The problem is that Mother Nature has cycles far longer than our lifetimes. There's a lot of fear mongering and Kyoto just disgusted me! I actually googled and read the damn thing and it seemed to be real light on actually fixing a problem and real heavy on wealth re-distribution to other countries.

I mean, Kyoto specifically let China, Russia and India off the hook - the 3 biggest polluters on the planet!

I'd much rather actually cut our emissions. Of course, every time I talk like this some poly-sci major from Queens University completely misses my point and chastises me for being against the life of the planet by being against Kyoto. In most circles these days it seems to be a sacred cow that must be taken as holy gospel. The emperor has no clothes, yet again.

I once read that when the Vikings first landed in Newfoundland the climate was warm enough to grow grapes. Those poor Newfoundlanders! They've been waiting nearly 800 years to get warm again!
 

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But is it warming? Besides, the eco rants are usually laughed off by real scientists studying real science. The problem with eco scientists is they look at the earth as a rock and the environment as the most important thing. In reality, the earth is in a way, alive. It collects energy, uses the energy, and expels waste and unnessesary energy. If I remeber correctly most of these the processes takes place in the 11th (?) dimention, and the feedback we see in our demention shows that the earth is healthy. If you speak of multi demention feedback to an eco scientist, they dont know what the hell you are talking about, and that pretty well sums up how these huys dont really have a clue. Eco science has nothing to do with the interaction of the real sciences of chemistry, psysics and biology. Its a science that exists on its own and ignores the others. Most real scientists will say we simply dont have the data nor the technology to stand up and say that there is a problem. They can have theories and conjecture. This is another reason why I dont listen to eco scientists, because they claim they know everything for sure. The surest known way to detect bullshit, other than hiring Penn & Teller, is when someone says they know something for certain when you know there is no possible way they could, you know its bullshit...................
 

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this is gonna turn into one of the "smoking legistation kills the bars" thread isn't it:mad:
 

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"Hey Man! He broke the President!" -Firesign Theater

Xanadu said:
this is gonna turn into one of the "smoking legistation kills the bars" thread isn't it:mad:
Hopefully not, but it very well might! (sigh)

The problem is that the human race seems to have split into two species with quite different ways of looking at the world.

One is more logical. Someone of this type needs facts, evidence and reason before he'll believe something or change his mind. He gets very suspicious of attempts to sway him by emotion. If someone won't give him a good reason he immediately assumes the fellow doesn't actually have one.

Someone from the other camp is more intuitive. His belief structure is built more on faith and confidence. Often he finds math or hard sciences difficult and uncomfortable. Once you gain his trust he will work his buns off for you but the negative is that he can be more easily "conned" by appealing to his emotional side. Once he's confirmed his loyalty he rarely will question data from his own "side". Hence we hear that "Gore always speaks the truth!" and "Bush is an evil right-wing liar!" As if we should believe ANY politician! :) The upside is that this personality is more prone to quickly make up his mind and get off his butt to do something.

I'm generalizing, of course. Still, it seems sad to me that we have a problem that requires hard scientific expertise to address, yet people are either scientific thinkers without enough care and drive or are those who show great concern with ample energy to work for the cause without being able to discern clearly if the cause is right!

If this thread goes the way of the nicotine furor, watch and see the tone of the posts. You'll quickly see those who believe that only someone evil who wants Mother Earth to die would dare to question their assumptions...

Thus it ever was, I guess.
 
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