The Canadian Guitar Forum banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,658 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just kidding guys.

Sort of.


A few months back I tried using a Vox Tonelab SE for live gigs. I run it direct via two DIs to our PA. The PA is full stereo so I use two channels panned hard left and right. I hear myself via one of the PAs discrete monitor mixes.

The sound is phenominal both on stage and out front.


No amp whatsoever on stage and I've never heard myself more clearly. Also the other guys have the luxury of being able to dial in as much or little guitar as the want. Stage volume is nice and low.




The end result and my goal is that the sound is much better out front where the audience is sitting. No mics, no bleeding, more room on stage, harmonic feedback is easier (wedges right in front of me).



It works and it works bloody well.


 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,658 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Jeff Flowerday said:
Dude, you've sold you soul to the devil. :)

I've never been able to find a modeler that sounds half as good as my tube amps. Then there the feel, it's just not the same.

The amps I mothballed were tube amps. I've been playing a LONG time and always used 2 X 12 combos or 4 X 12 cabs.


The mistake most people make with modellers is that they try to use them in conjunction with a conventional guitar amp. WRONG approach.

Try one direct. I like the Vox, but I've heard great results with Pod XT Live when used direct.


Through an amp, even in the effects loop they ALL sound like ass.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
My preamp has XLR stereo outs allowing balanced direct plugin to the board, but I have found micing sounds way better, especially since I use a chorus amp to smooth the gain produced by the preamp. Sorry, but amps rule..............
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,658 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Accept2 said:
My preamp has XLR stereo outs allowing balanced direct plugin to the board, but I have found micing sounds way better, especially since I use a chorus amp to smooth the gain produced by the preamp. Sorry, but amps rule..............

Running direct outs from a preamp is not even close to a modeller. Good modellers model the amps preamp, power amp AND cabinet.

I've tried a direct line out of a Mesa Triaxis, ADA MP1 and a Dean Marlely and yes, it sounds like crap.


The Vox sounds fantastic, in fact, I get guys coming up to me at gigs asking if I'm using some sort of boutique tube amp. One guy swore I must have had a Dumble up there. As all amps on our stage are covered with back drop it's a fair blindfold test.

Amps are fine, but if you want to make a fair assesment of modelers you have to rty them WITHOUT a guitar amp.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
My preamp does modelling as well. It does it all............
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
I use 2 setups, a Rocktron VooduValve in the rack setup, and a Roland VG8 in the other setup. The VooduValve has modeling as well as the VG8. The VG8s modelling goes well beyond other modellers though as it models more than just amps...........
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,658 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Accept2 said:
I use 2 setups, a Rocktron VooduValve in the rack setup, and a Roland VG8 in the other setup. The VooduValve has modeling as well as the VG8. The VG8s modelling goes well beyond other modellers though as it models more than just amps...........

This is also true of the Vox Tonelab SE. It models amps, cabinets and a number of vintage and modern effects.


Personally, I do more than just guitar. I'm also the lead vocalist and play a variety of instruments in the course of our gigs. I need consistancy and ease of use.

The Vox replaced a 4 X 12 amp and a surfboard sized pedalboard. It's very tweakable and thus my sound is continuosly evolving and improving.

Just a matter of taste of course, but again, the sound out front is really my biggest concern and frankly it's just much better now than when I was using a conventional amp.

I own the PA and the tech works for me so I really try to see things from the "big picture" perspective.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,658 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Here's a bit of an addendum.


I view my "amp" or "rig" as a comprehensive entity. It's all a part of the P.A.

If I could eliminate mics on the kit by going to an electronic kit I'd be as happy as a little girl.

Keeping stage volume to a minimum has long been our mantra.

We can actually talk to each other on stage without screaming. The PA itself has ample power (8800 watts FOH and 1600 watts monitor) to fill most rooms. I try to use good quality DIs for anything that allows it.

Using a modeler and other efforts have resulted in a much better sounding band. That's my mission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Milkman said:
Just kidding guys.

Sort of.


A few months back I tried using a Vox Tonelab SE for live gigs. I run it direct via two DIs to our PA. The PA is full stereo so I use two channels panned hard left and right. I hear myself via one of the PAs discrete monitor mixes.

The sound is phenominal both on stage and out front.


No amp whatsoever on stage and I've never heard myself more clearly. Also the other guys have the luxury of being able to dial in as much or little guitar as the want. Stage volume is nice and low.




The end result and my goal is that the sound is much better out front where the audience is sitting. No mics, no bleeding, more room on stage, harmonic feedback is easier (wedges right in front of me).



It works and it works bloody well.
]
As long as you think it does is all that matters. Good luck. Cheers Lucius
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
What Lucius said.

Also, remember that a lot of *us* have also been playing a long time, and *have* given modellers a lot of chances. Too many people assume if someone doesn't like a modelling device that he hasn't "tried to tweak it properly" or "hasn't heard the best of what it has to offer". That's not always true, certainly not in my case and I'm betting not in Jeff's case either.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,658 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
JamesPeters said:
What Lucius said.

Also, remember that a lot of *us* have also been playing a long time, and *have* given modellers a lot of chances. Too many people assume if someone doesn't like a modelling device that he hasn't "tried to tweak it properly" or "hasn't heard the best of what it has to offer". That's not always true, certainly not in my case and I'm betting not in Jeff's case either.

Easy big fella. No need to get defensive. I encounter the "tubes rule" paradigm on an ongoing basis.

Typically when put to the blindfold test almost nobody can really tell the difference, particularly after the signal makes its way through a 100' snake, through the console, effects rack, back through the snake (yup still 100') into the power amps, through the speaker cables to the mains and finally to their ears.

My point is, modelers can work VERY effectively if used in a sensible way and very few guys really take the long view on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
If I sounded as though I was being defensive, it was to point out that you had sounded defensive towards Jeff's post. No offense was meant.

People do know what you're saying. Well, some don't but then you'll never change their minds anyway. And that is sad, because modelling devices can be quite effective. I had an uphill struggle years ago trying to explain to people how to get the Johnson J-Station to sound good in recordings. It was pretty easy, but most people who claimed it wasn't possible hadn't bothered to really try. Once I posted clips which proved it could sound good, those people just vanished from the threads rather than admitting they might be a bit prejudiced towards the devices.

Anyway, the forums are full of people who either swear that modelling devices are "better than having amps" or that they're "terrible". Posting either one is a bit extreme. I'd also venture that saying "almost no one can tell the difference" is pushing it too, since I know many people who can.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,658 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
JamesPeters said:
If I sounded as though I was being defensive, it was to point out that you had sounded defensive towards Jeff's post. No offense was meant.

People do know what you're saying. Well, some don't but then you'll never change their minds anyway. And that is sad, because modelling devices can be quite effective. I had an uphill struggle years ago trying to explain to people how to get the Johnson J-Station to sound good in recordings. It was pretty easy, but most people who claimed it wasn't possible hadn't bothered to really try. Once I posted clips which proved it could sound good, those people just vanished from the threads rather than admitting they might be a bit prejudiced towards the devices.

Anyway, the forums are full of people who either swear that modelling devices are "better than having amps" or that they're "terrible". Posting either one is a bit extreme. I'd also venture that saying "almost no one can tell the difference" is pushing it too, since I know many people who can.

I suppose I can seem a bit overbearing. Perhaps once you get to know me a bit you'll know how to take me.

I agree that if you A/B a well programmed modeler and a tube amp, you'll likely hear a difference, but I have done the double blind test with a couple of dyed in the wool Tube nuts (no offense) and they were unable to tell which was which. They could hear differences, but were unable to tell me which was the amp.


The reason I think Modelers are the way to go is not because they sound better. They don't. I'd say they can sound as good in the right hands, but that's another discussion. It's because they lend themselves to working with a PA or recording console in a much more efficient and effective (in my opinion) way.


I still have a few amps and may change my mind at some point.

But.... I've been gigging since last summer with it and I'm blown away.

Also, I recorded an entire album in Oct ~ Nov and never used an amp, in spite of the abundance of them in the studio. I'll post clips soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
james on bass said:
My guitarist just bought a Line 6 Pro XT the other week. Got rid of his MArshall head. What do you guys think of that unit?
It sounds the same as the regular "XT" as far as I know, but it has more i/o and it's in a rack unit. The XTs are nice. For "direct" devices I'd say it's as good as anything else out there that I'm aware of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
JamesPeters said:
It sounds the same as the regular "XT" as far as I know, but it has more i/o and it's in a rack unit. The XTs are nice. For "direct" devices I'd say it's as good as anything else out there that I'm aware of.
Sorry, I meant the Pro XT Live, the new monster pedal board. That, his Marshall cabs, a Carver power amp and his crybaby is his rig now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
I see, that's the version which is built into the floorboard. Beyond that I don't see any difference between that and the other XT units in terms of amp models and such, at least from browsing Line 6's site just now. So I guess I'd have the same opinion of that as I do the regular XT. :) Oh wait, it has about 30 more stomp box effect models built in. Just noticed now. Since I'm not much of an effects nut, I probably wouldn't have noticed if I'd even have tried the Live back to back with the regular XT or Pro.

Are you planning to buy one?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
I'm not buying one. AS a bass player, I have no use for that kind of amp modeling and array of effects. I love my GK/Yorkie set-up and a couple of effects to it, but that's it.

What do you think of my guitarist using this pedalboard as his whole rig? No amp, just amp/cab modelers and added built-in stomp effects from the Line6 unit.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top