[davetcan]

Thought I'd better start a new thread.

Looking for a nice way to add reverb and delay to my Reinhardt 18 while using the amps overdrive.
Traynor Garnet recommended this in the Fryette thread and it looks both affordable and a good solution.

David Bray Amps

While digging around I came across this which looks very cool indeed. I might ping Bob Reinhardt to see if I can use both channels on the 18 this way.

 

[davetcan]

This is a close up of my Reinhardt. I asked Bob about the use of the FXUL8TR and he said it would work fine but why not just use the clean channel as a loop? Another duh moment. It sounds great. Cabling method is

Guitar into TMB/Bright channel Hi input. Another cable from the Lo input to effects and then from effects into the Normal/Clean channel. This is essentially the old Marshall trick of jumping channels but inserting FX into the clean "loop" which would then be post any gain generated by the TMB channel. Still not as crystal clean as a dedicated loop but a ton better than inserting pre gain, at least n my opinion.

You can see from this that Bob's take on the 18 includes dumping the trem circuit and adding a second gain stage and a master volume. The result is an amp that sounds great clean or with quite a bit of gain that can be had at reasonable volume levels. It excells at the edge of breakup tone though.

Here's a video of Greg Germino running through one and just using the guitars volume and tone controls. That's Bob on the left.

 

[Guncho]

I've always run delay in front of my amp in pedal form.

What's wrong with doing that?

 

[davetcan]

I've always run delay in front of my amp in pedal form.

What's wrong with doing that?

Nothing, it's just different Analog/Tape delays with the mix dialed back sound quite good that way, I personally find most digital delays into an overdriven amp can sound quite harsh and muddy if not careful.

I run the majority of my amps clean with all FX in front, I just prefer delay and reverb after dirt.

 

[traynor_garnet]

But isn't this still running effects into the preamp? Haven't you kind of just constructed a "clean blend" so to speak? Same goes for the FXUL unit you linked above.

As you crank up your amp volume do you also crank the amount of signal hitting your pedals?

TG

 

[troyhead]

You could also use a BadCat Unleash. This would work with any amp, and in addition to its effects loop, you can crank your amp for your favourite drive tone without it getting too loud. It's not an attenuator, but a reactive load and reamplifier. Not an exact reproduction of the cranked amp, but probably better than an attenuator. And it will give you the effects loop you are looking for on a single channel amp, or both channels of a dual channel amp.

UNLEASH V2

 

[davetcan]

But isn't this still running effects into the preamp? Haven't you kind of just constructed a "clean blend" so to speak? Same goes for the FXUL unit you linked above.

As you crank up your amp volume do you also crank the amount of signal hitting your pedals?

TG

I need to do more experimenting with it but at first blush it seems to allow me a lot more control over the level of fx in the clean channel, by adjusting the fx mix level and the clean volume, while turning up the gain in the TMB channel. I'll do some more playing around and see if I can record something over the weekend, if it works off course

 

[davetcan]

You could also use a BadCat Unleash. This would work with any amp, and in addition to its effects loop, you can crank your amp for your favourite drive tone without it getting too loud. It's not an attenuator, but a reactive load and reamplifier. Not an exact reproduction of the cranked amp, but probably better than an attenuator. And it will give you the effects loop you are looking for on a single channel amp, or both channels of a dual channel amp.

UNLEASH V2

The Unleash sounds a lot like the Fryette Power Station.

 

[High/Deaf]

The Unleash sounds a lot like the Fryette Power Station.

Yep, same idea with a few different switches and options. They accomplish the same task, though.

But isn't this still running effects into the preamp? Haven't you kind of just constructed a "clean blend" so to speak? Same goes for the FXUL unit you linked above.

As you crank up your amp volume do you also crank the amount of signal hitting your pedals?

TG

That's what I thought, too - that the two inputs were in parallel and by 'bridging', we were just plugging our guitars in parallel into the two channels and not routing through one pre-amp into the other. I await Dave's experimentation. But if it sounds good, it is good. We over-analyze a lot of this.

 

[troyhead]

I've always run delay in front of my amp in pedal form.

What's wrong with doing that?

To quote Pete Thorn "If it sounds good, it is good." As he points out, guys have been doing it for ages. Most of the time I like the delay after the drive, but in some cases it works before. Pete has a nice example with a Van Halen song, but also mentions that this works better with "reduced fidelity delays" like an analog or tape delay.

If you have the delay in front, the delay stands out a lot more when you hit the notes harder. This is cool and almost like having an adjustable mix that is dependant on your touch sensitivity, but to me it makes things more difficult as I'm just not good enough to add in another variable like that.

 

[troyhead]

The Unleash sounds a lot like the Fryette Power Station.

Whoops... yep, it's the same-ish. I didn't read the other thread.

 

[davetcan]

Whoops... yep, it's the same-ish. I didn't read the other thread.

I like both actually, just not cheap

 

[High/Deaf]

I like both actually, just not cheap

True dat.

But I've said it before and will say it again: "The PS is the single best musical product I've bought in the last decade or more." I play out a lot and it has expanded my 'usable amps at various or unknown venues' palette infinitely. I believe I'm getting my money out of it, but everyone has to reach that conclusion based on their own situation.

 

[davetcan]

Well I think we can nix that idea It works "up to a point". With low gain it sounds good but then it also sounds just as good with the delay in front of the dirty channel. At the end of the day it's just blending both channels of the amp, the delay still seems to be negatively impacted by medium to high levels of distortion from the amp. Running the amp clean, which is my normal practice, with all pedals out front still sounds best to me. However with the amp set at the edge of breakup the delay, with the mix down a bit, still sounds great in front of it, a la the Pete Thorn video. I can then hit it with an OCD or something to push it over the top.

Guess I'll keep my eyes open for a deal on a Fryette PS

 

[High/Deaf]

I wonder if 'my buddies a few blocks down', Radial Engineering, make a box similar to the FUXL8TR? May that be an option or have you found that type of solution won't work for what you want to do? Radial isn't cheap, but they are quality.

If I have some time, I may peruse their site. If it wasn't so wet and cold out, they would be a part of my bike ride and I could just stop in and ask them.

 

[davetcan]

They've got this

Tonebone BigShot™ MIX

but I'm not 100% sure it will do what I want. Not sure if it will allow post amp FX or not.

 

[Budda]

I know my friend had a unit installed on his jcm800 - I think if you arent worried about getting into your amp it would be doable. I can ask him for a link if that is of interest.

 

[davetcan]

I know my friend had a unit installed on his jcm800 - I think if you arent worried about getting into your amp it would be doable. I can ask him for a link if that is of interest.

Thanks, I know Mojo makes one but I'm trying to avoid amp mods, this thing is kinda special ☺

 

[Budda]

Makes sense! I thought I would miss having a loop, but it's not part of our sound so it's fine. For a different project a loop may be fun.

 

[traynor_garnet]

Dave, why not just buy the Bray unit I linked in the other thread. It's cheap and does what you want.

TG