[KapnKrunch]

I was at the doctor today. I requested an extended antibiotic treatment for suspected tick bite infection. It's a small town and the doctors are great guys.

However, it cannot be denied that today the medical system set us as adversaries: establishment vs activist.

Of course we know each other personally somewhat, and still, no matter how charming I tried to spin it, it was obvious that I was telling him how to do his job.

You are aware of the crisis around Lyme Disease (and several other devastating tick-born ailments), so I will attempt to make just ONE SIMPLE POINT.

Doxycyclene is the prescribed antibiotic for doctors to apply ON SUSPICION of Lyme. That is a wonderful advancement, compared to denying the very existence of the disease a few years ago. Bravo!

But here is where it gets very dangerous...

You will be given a nominal amount of the antibiotic: a week or ten days. And your blood samples will be sent for testing.

Here it comes, straight from the doctor:

"IF YOUR BLOOD SAMPLE SHOWS AN INFECTION, THEN YOU WILL BE GIVEN THE [PROPER] TREATMENT OF THIRTY DAYS OF THE ANTIBIOTIC."

"Sounds good," said my daughter who is a nurse. She has worked with doctors in clinical trials, attended international conferences, blah, blah, blah.

But, to me it doesn't "sound good" when the track record on the current test is reported as failing to detect infection. Anywhere from 20% to 50%. Depending on which study, I guess. I don't care.

I suggested to my nurse daughter, that if I was a doctor I might be allowed to say:

"Here's thirty. TAKE THEM ALL. It might be killing a flea with a sledgehammer, but the alternative is not acceptable, given the horror of this disease."

She told me that a doctor definitely has the authority to do this.

I understand that we are trying to preserve the efficacy of antibiotics, by not over-using them, but I think it would be wiser to start with farm animals, rather than with the alarming tick-born epidemic that threatens PEOPLE. Shoot the sick cattle, eat beans, continue to be able earn a living.

The good doctor added a ten-day prescription to my current seven-day prescription. Thanks. I hope it works.

I suggest to you, please consider suggesting/demanding the full treatment up front. Forget the test. No time.

That's what I would have done if I knew this protocol before, and had time to think about it.

 

[LexxM3]

100% agreement on all points and in you choosing to fend for yourself. Nobody, absolutely nobody will advocate for yourself and your family better than you. You cannot accept casual mediocrity from any of the world's medical systems and jaded (and sometimes plain stupid) people in them.

As for antibiotics, we are trying to preserve antibiotics for exactly this kind of a serious disease, so the preservation argument is 180 degrees wrong if one hears it in this case. We can't overuse antibiotics for stupid shit like viral colds and flues exactly so that they would still be effective for debilitating and actual life-threatening bacterial situations. Livestock use to increase yield is the obvious other issue.

 

[Budda]

I have an acquaintance who suffers from lyme - it really sidetracked her life. She talks about it heavily online and shares peoples stories. I don't know if she'll ever be back to full strength.

She's 26.

I don't understand why Canadian medical services can't step up to the plate on something so terrible. Now that we have a dog, ticks are a very real possibility.

 

[Moosehead]

Dont mean to politicize this but the Green party put forward a national lyme disease strategy. Not sure if its been fully put into action or not but it did pass.
Here it is: National Lyme disease strategy Act Bill C-442 | CanLyme – Canadian Lyme Disease Foundation

 

[KapnKrunch]

The link from Lyme Foundation site to the discussion of Bill C-442 didn't activate for me, Moose. "Error"

Good info on tick removal available on the Lyme Foundation site, though.

 

[ZeroGravity]

It's only as good as your doctor. Mine is very good that way. A couple of years ago I got a tick bite in a known Lyme carrying region, went to emergency (no walk-in clinics near the cottage). ER Doc says probably not as it was attached for no more than a few hours. Gave me a "prophylactic" dose. Next day I get the ring about the size of dime. My doctor sees me right away looks at and isn't sure. Not on long enough to transfer any virus, but the ring is concerning. Calls the province infectious disease line to consult. Gives me a 21-day prescription and says wait to hear. The ring never gets any bigger, probably just a local reaction to the bite, but doc says take the antibiotics anyways. 3/day for 3 weeks.

 

[Guitar101]

Just came into my mailbox a few minutes ago. I've attached a document with times for each province if anyone's interested. (if you click on the file, it downloads the pdf file to your PC)


Saturday June 3rd, 2017: It’s Time to Get VOCAL – Voices of Canadians About Lyme
Canadians Concerned About Lyme Disease
MAY 29, 2017 — This Saturday June 3, 2017, please join us at one of the numerous events occurring across Canada to get VOCAL (Voices of Canadians About Lyme)!

Please come out with family and friends to show our Government that YOU are concerned about Lyme disease and the safety of your family. Please share this information all across Canada!

Sue Faber and I are very honoured to be among the many speakers at the Ottawa event. Details below, hope to see you there!

 

[zdogma]

I was at the doctor today. I requested an extended antibiotic treatment for suspected tick bite infection. It's a small town and the doctors are great guys.

However, it cannot be denied that today the medical system set us as adversaries: establishment vs activist.

Of course we know each other personally somewhat, and still, no matter how charming I tried to spin it, it was obvious that I was telling him how to do his job.

You are aware of the crisis around Lyme Disease (and several other devastating tick-born ailments), so I will attempt to make just ONE SIMPLE POINT.

Doxycyclene is the prescribed antibiotic for doctors to apply ON SUSPICION of Lyme. That is a wonderful advancement, compared to denying the very existence of the disease a few years ago. Bravo!

But here is where it gets very dangerous...

You will be given a nominal amount of the antibiotic: a week or ten days. And your blood samples will be sent for testing.

Here it comes, straight from the doctor:

"IF YOUR BLOOD SAMPLE SHOWS AN INFECTION, THEN YOU WILL BE GIVEN THE [PROPER] TREATMENT OF THIRTY DAYS OF THE ANTIBIOTIC."

"Sounds good," said my daughter who is a nurse. She has worked with doctors in clinical trials, attended international conferences, blah, blah, blah.

But, to me it doesn't "sound good" when the track record on the current test is reported as failing to detect infection. Anywhere from 20% to 50%. Depending on which study, I guess. I don't care.

I suggested to my nurse daughter, that if I was a doctor I might be allowed to say:

"Here's thirty. TAKE THEM ALL. It might be killing a flea with a sledgehammer, but the alternative is not acceptable, given the horror of this disease."

She told me that a doctor definitely has the authority to do this.

I understand that we are trying to preserve the efficacy of antibiotics, by not over-using them, but I think it would be wiser to start with farm animals, rather than with the alarming tick-born epidemic that threatens PEOPLE. Shoot the sick cattle, eat beans, continue to be able earn a living.

The good doctor added a ten-day prescription to my current seven-day prescription. Thanks. I hope it works.

I suggest to you, please consider suggesting/demanding the full treatment up front. Forget the test. No time.

That's what I would have done if I knew this protocol before, and had time to think about it.

OK. Let me tackle this one step at time. There's a lot of misinformation related to Lyme disease on the net, the illness is neither as common or as horrible a scourge as many people seem to think.

First a bit of reassurance specific to Saskatchewan. Of all tick bits logged in Saskatchewan, and of the thousands of ticks submitted by doctors and vets, only 50 have been black legged ticks, and of those 50 only 4 have tested positive for Borrelia, so the absolute risk of exposure to lyme from a tick bite is extremely low. Much, much less that 1% of the ticks collected in Sask are "bad ones", we tend to get more concerned about bites in areas where they are at about 20% or more. So don't worry too much at this point. It will probably get more common in the next few years, since it seems to be slowly working its way north in most areas (global warming?) and there is a bit higher incidence in the southern parts of Wisconsin.

Here in Ontario, we've now creeped into the higher risk group many areas:

https://www.ontario.ca/page/lyme-disease

Ticks generally can't transmit lyme unless they are 1) black legged 2) infected with Borrelia 3) the tick is attached for more than 36 hours.

If you can't get the tick post bite, then a single 200mg dose of doxycycline is usually 100% preventative, but in your area it is probably not necessary to do at all given the low overall incidence. So at this stage your short prescription is a more than adequate treatment. The extended course (21 days is usually sufficient BTW) is only done 1) if your serology becomes positive 2) if the tick is pos for lyme or 3) if you develop the clinical syndrome (fever, joint pains, the target rash)

If you can send the tick for testing that is ideal, its a much more sensitive way to control the risk. Unfortunately, sending serology (blood testing) after a tick bite isn't particularly useful, because it takes about 4 weeks for the serology to become positive, but since you took the preventative dose it shouldn't really matter.

Here's a great reference:

What to do after a tick bite to prevent Lyme disease

 

[zdogma]

It's only as good as your doctor. Mine is very good that way. A couple of years ago I got a tick bite in a known Lyme carrying region, went to emergency (no walk-in clinics near the cottage). ER Doc says probably not as it was attached for no more than a few hours. Gave me a "prophylactic" dose. Next day I get the ring about the size of dime. My doctor sees me right away looks at and isn't sure. Not on long enough to transfer any virus, but the ring is concerning. Calls the province infectious disease line to consult. Gives me a 21-day prescription and says wait to hear. The ring never gets any bigger, probably just a local reaction to the bite, but doc says take the antibiotics anyways. 3/day for 3 weeks.

Yep, that sounds exactly right

 

[sambonee]

I'm
Currently getting treated for Lyme with something called bicom.

The only 100% accurate test is the one for $400 in the USA.

Any doctor who tries to concentrate on this is witch hunted out of the college of doctors. It is a serious problem in ontario. Within the last three years it's been discovered that it is communicable via secretions. Tears, saliva etc,,,,

Also there are 150 spinoff diseases that are under the BIG PHARMA Thumb earning them billions. There's little motivation to cure the trigger of all that dough.


Not worth risking exposure. Long sleeve clothes and pants in socks. . 50-60% of ticks in Ontario carry Lyme. Afaik.

 

[Steadfastly]

Another reason why we don't get extra treatments is money. The country is deeply in debt to the point that we will never get out of it and a big cost is health care. One of the best ways we can do our best to overcome any road blocks to the best health care is to educate ourselves as much as we can and tactfully present this information to our health care providers.

 

[bolero]

This pisses me off

apparently they passed an "action plan" a year ago, but haven't actually done anything

part of that action plan was stipulating the Canadian test for Lyme, which isn't good enough to detect more than about 50% of cases (?? )

so Canadians are going to the US and paying for proper tests there

WTF

I do not understand the lacadaisical attitude towards this, as it can seriously mess up your life. it's not like a common cold or flu, that is only temporary!

Black legged ticks have been found in high concentrations on Toronto Island, and Rouge River Scarborough...I would assume they are probably found throughout brush in urban areas, not just in "canoe trip country"

 

[KapnKrunch]

Zdog.

I spent three days in the same clothes working and playing at the lake in ontario and sleeping in the same clothes each night because it was so cold. Even spent the fourth day driving back to SK, before changing and finding tick. Examined tick. Yes black leg. Developed full symptoms 10 days later.

Live in a village of 140 in Sask. My friends wife is in a wheelchair on triple morphine with Lyme hopefully cured (in Germany), but now looking at Bartinella co-infection. Back to Germany

Saying the horror of the disease is exaggerated in like sayin "AIDS aint so bad" in the eighties.

Readers, do not underestimate the extent and severity of this epidemic.

 

[KapnKrunch]

double post

 

[cboutilier]

Zdog.

I spent three days in the same clothes working and playing at the lake in ontario and sleeping in the same clothes each night because it was so cold. Even spent the fourth day driving back to SK, before changing and finding tick. Examined tick. Yes black leg. Developed full symptoms 10 days later.

Live in a village of 140 in Sask. My friends wife is in a wheelchair on triple morphine with Lyme hopefully cured (in Germany), but now looking at Bartinella co-infection. Back to Germany

Saying the horror of the disease is exaggerated in like sayin "AIDS aint so bad" in the eighties.

Readers, do not underestimate the extent and severity of this epidemic.

It honestly scares the shit out of me. I work outdoors, and spend most of my free time in the woods (fishing, atv, etc.). The ticks are spreading rapidly across NS now, and growing in numbers. Each of the last 10 years has been drastically worse. They used to be contained to the southern most counties, but rising average temperatures are helping them spread North

 

[Guest]

Is there any way to get the antibiotics if your MD is a jerk?

Walk in clinic? Mexico?

 

[zdogma]

Zdog.

I spent three days in the same clothes working and playing at the lake in ontario and sleeping in the same clothes each night because it was so cold. Even spent the fourth day driving back to SK, before changing and finding tick. Examined tick. Yes black leg. Developed full symptoms 10 days later.

Live in a village of 140 in Sask. My friends wife is in a wheelchair on triple morphine with Lyme hopefully cured (in Germany), but now looking at Bartinella co-infection. Back to Germany

Saying the horror of the disease is exaggerated in like sayin "AIDS aint so bad" in the eighties.

Readers, do not underestimate the extent and severity of this epidemic.

I dont worry about it, honestly. In 30 years spent outdoors I've never had a tick bite, fortunately, but if I did, I know what to do and how to safely treat it. My dad has had a few over the years working as a fishing guide, he has had 4 all were negative for Lyme when they went to the lab.

I live in Ontario and we have about 1 case per 100000 population per year (about 10 times more than Saskatchewan). In Maine or New Hampshire where it is about 1/1000 population, I'd probably think more about it.

I'm not arguing against treatment, and I think it's a bad illness if ignored, but perspective is important.

 

[Guest]

Those statistics are useless when our medical system doesn't have a proper test, won't take the treatment or disease seriously, and denies potential sufferers proper medication.

 

[allthumbs56]

People are finding ticks in their back yards in our area. The north shores of Lake Erie have been high risk for some years now. We can't walk our dogs on pathways without them picking up one or more with regularity. The dogs are protected with Advantix II but I'm not. I've been bit - it is no fun finding and removing a lodged tick - Lyme disease or not.

Saying that the odds are low as a defense? Then why are we wearing seatbelts and checking for bombs at the airport? It's only about statistics until you are affected.

Bring on the DDT!

 

[KapnKrunch]

Is there any way to get the antibiotics if your MD is a jerk?

Walk in clinic? Mexico?

Its hard to believe any doctor in Canada would still be that far out of the loop. Contact an online group? I dunno. I would freak. Definitely do not leave without shouting your demand.