What do you think Of Tazer use?

[Starbuck]

Will all the furor lately over the Tazer incidents in BC and Quebec, I just can't help but to think that people would like to see police unarmed? I just wonder how else they are supposed to deal with an erratic/voilent individual in a public place. My heart goes out to the families of those affected, but what else is expected of Law enforcement when confronted with someone "sweating profusely, yelling, throwing computers and chairs around"?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071121.TASERSIDE21/TPStory/National

[ClintonHammond]

I am not qualified to judge what happened to that dude who died... I'll wait until the official inquest reveals it's findings.

But I'm loath to tie the hands of law enforcement officers any more than they already are. It's their job to corral dangerous people, and the fact is, some times people are going to get hurt... and sometimes, just sometimes, people are going to get dead.

[laristotle]

I just wonder how else they are supposed to deal with an erratic/violent individual in a public place.

Call in Judge Dredd.

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/d/dreddss.jpg

Not to poke fun on the issue, but I'm with ClintonHammond on
this one. Wait for the inquest.

[david henman]

...i agree with clint, as well. the police need every advantage possible.

that said, its beginning to look like there has been a lot of misuse and overuse of the tazer.

that's not to say its not a good idea.

however, if the trend to misuse and abuse continues, it will have to be banned.

i hope that's not the case.

-dh

[The Kicker Of Elves]

however, if the trend to misuse and abuse continues, it will have to be banned.

i hope that's not the case.

-dh

And if that does happen watch everyone get really upset when a PC is forced to shoot someone dead because they don't have any non-lethal alternatives.

The same "controversy" happens every time an asthmatic with a heart condition gets peppersprayed and drops dead...

[Wild Bill]

...i agree with clint, as well. the police need every advantage possible.

that said, its beginning to look like there has been a lot of misuse and overuse of the tazer.

that's not to say its not a good idea.

however, if the trend to misuse and abuse continues, it will have to be banned.

i hope that's not the case.

-dh

Perhaps we the public have too high an expectation of the device. Since most folks aren't really that technical in background they've accepted tazers as totally non-lethal, like a Star Trek phaser set on "Stun".

The hard reality is that what will stun on individual might kill some others. Maybe the media is also to blame. They seemed to have branded tazers as non-lethal from the start. I've never heard many reporters that knew any more about electricity than how to change batteries in a flashlight.

I agree though that it would be too bad if these unrealistic expectations result in a tazer ban. That would mean that cops would have only the choice of a bullet or letting them walk away.

:food-smiley-004:

[Michelle]

But what did they use before Tazers? Nightsticks possibly? It *seems* in the video that the cops were gung-ho to taze, there were 4 cops. The disturbing part was after the initial taze they did it again while he was squirming in agony.

[shoretyus]

I am not qualified to judge what happened to that dude who died... I'll wait until the official inquest reveals it's findings.



That's a gig I want... no late nights all expenses... do drunks

[ClintonHammond]

"like a Star Trek phaser set on "Stun"
According to the 'technical specs' multiple hits from a phaser set on 'stun' are capable of killing...

,-)

There is no such thing as a completely non-lethal 'weapon'...

"It *seems* in the video"
Video is WAY too interpretive, especially to the untrained eye.... I'll go so far as to suggest that it's very likely nobody on this forum has half a clue what they're seeing in that video.

[Paul]

"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!!"- Kang and Kodos, The Simpsons

[david henman]

.... I'll go so far as to suggest that it's very likely nobody on this forum has half a clue what they're seeing in that video.

...i'll bet you do, though, eh big guy?

:smile:

-dh

[david henman]

There is no such thing as a completely non-lethal 'weapon'....

...what about those guns that shoot out a flag that says, "BANG!", huh?

-dh

[Starbuck]

[QUOTE=ClintonHammond;76420"It *seems* in the video"
Video is WAY too interpretive, especially to the untrained eye.... I'll go so far as to suggest that it's very likely nobody on this forum has half a clue what they're seeing in that video.[/QUOTE]

Of course and that's the problem isn't it? The general public is able to pass judgement on a situation they know nothing about. I just have to wonder about 4 RCMP officers all using Bad Judgement (which is being implied). I'm sure there is more education needed for the public and for enforcement.

It has already been proven that using a Taser on a person under the influence of certain drugs (I'm not saying that was the case in this incident) can in fact prove to be lethal.

Like someone else said here. Yeah ban the Taser then they have to resort back to guns and I'm sure bullets are more lethal in more cases than the Taser.

[Steeler]

The problem is the Tazer is being used too fast. There are other options.
The Tazer is not lethal to healthy people. How can the cops know if the person they are attacking is healthy?

Four RCMP officers could have physically taken down the unarmed guy at the Vancover Airport, without weapons.

Last week in the US, an 18 year old died from a Police Tazer because he was in a fight with another kid.
In the past the cops would never thought of using a gun to break up a fight, but they think a Tazer is OK.
There are other ways. It's just that it's too easy to use a Tazer.

Here's a video of a Utah cop tazering someone, over a traffic ticket:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fae_1195587967

Decent cops are fast loosing respect when their brethren behave this way.

<OMSB>

[Xanadu]

I don't see anything wrong with tazer use at all. If somebody is being violent, I believe that the police have every right to take down the person, in whichever manner causes little or no injury to the officers.

[david henman]

I don't see anything wrong with tazer use at all. If somebody is being violent, I believe that the police have every right to take down the person, in whichever manner causes little or no injury to the officers.

...and if every situation was black and white, no one would argue with you.

however, the tazering at the vancouver airport raises way too many questions.

"in whichever manner" raises the spectre of authoratarian governments and dictatorships that are prepared to use "any means whatsoever" to control their citizens.

in a free, democratic and somewhat enlightened society, we can afford the luxury of considering all options available.

-dh

[Paul]

...in a free, democratic and somewhat enlightened society, we can afford the luxury of considering all options available.

-dh

Tell me where that is, and I'll move tomorrow.

I once read that Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Something went wrong long before the tasers came out in Vancouver. Somebody in that airport should have recognized Polish language, and talked to the guy. Vancouver has imported eastern Europoean strippers, right?

[ClintonHammond]

"The general public is able to pass judgement on a situation they know nothing about."
The General Public needs to be told to SHUT T.F. UP about things they know nothing about....

"proven that using a Taser..."
Proved where and by whom?? You're going to have to source that claim please....

"there is more education needed"
Education aught never stop...

"How can the cops know if the person they are attacking is healthy?"
I don't want them to have to stop to consider it, if the person is a danger to others.

One cannot make an omelets without breaking eggs....

" Somebody in that airport should have recognized Polish"
ShouldaCouldaWoulda.... blah blah blah....

[Starbuck]

"
"proven that using a Taser..."
Proved where and by whom?? You're going to have to source that claim please....


I cannot quote the exact source, but I watched a documentary segment on a Discover channel science show with the RCMP. The officers were being educated on the use of the Taser and some of them were being used as dummies to themselves be tasered. It was very interesting and one of the things being discussed was that in cases of drug use resulting in elevated heart rates, taser can in fact be quite deadly.

And ya I know " I seen it on TV"!

[ClintonHammond]

"in cases of drug use resulting in elevated heart rates"
So, you're mostly talking about recreational, illegal drug use?

Quite frankly, if some skiteheel with more money than brains gets "hepped up on goofballs", throws a fit, gets 'tazed' by cops and dies as a result, I couldn't care less.

[Starbuck]

"in cases of drug use resulting in elevated heart rates"
So, you're mostly talking about recreational, illegal drug use?


Yes that was the context, Meth, Cocaine etc.. I'm sure they never see folks like that at the Airport!

[ClintonHammond]

"Meth, Cocaine etc.."

Fudge 'em.... Right in the squatter!

[Canman]

I cannot quote the exact source, but I watched a documentary segment on a Discover channel science show with the RCMP. The officers were being educated on the use of the Taser and some of them were being used as dummies to themselves be tasered. It was very interesting and one of the things being discussed was that in cases of drug use resulting in elevated heart rates, taser can in fact be quite deadly.

And ya I know " I seen it on TV"!

I heard that too but someone told me they only had them on the small setting as otherwise it wouldnt be safe for the officers they couldnt risk the compo claims?

Im against the damn things-Its just one step in the direction of something more horrible, some new technology-Its bad enough that they use chemical weopons when they are banned-

As far as the drug connection-whether the victim is on drugs or not shouldnt matter-the dam things shouldnt be killing folk regardless-

I say take them away

[Paul]

I heard that too but someone told me they only had them on the small setting as otherwise it wouldnt be safe for the officers they couldnt risk the compo claims?

I know a cop who was trained on both taser and pepper spray. As part of the training they were supposed use the spray and taser on themselves and/or each other. He refused, with the explanation that they give him a Glock, and don't require him to shoot himself or his partner as part of the training.

[The Kicker Of Elves]

I know a cop who was trained on both taser and pepper spray. As part of the training they were supposed use the spray and taser on themselves and/or each other. He refused, with the explanation that they give him a Glock, and don't require him to shoot himself or his partner as part of the training.

The tasering seems odd, but the pepper spraying is supposed to be help prepare an officer just in case they get hit with the spray themselves...

Really it's most likely just effective as a team-building exercise.

[ClintonHammond]

"some new technology"
So go back to hugging trees, Hippy.....

"they use chemical (sic.)weopons"
Weapons? What chemical weapons???

Get a grip.

"they give him a Glock,"
There's a BIG difference between pepper spray and a glock... anybody with HALF a brain cell can tell you that.

[fraser]

..............

[bRian]

Tasers should be outlawed.

[Steeler]

The makers of Tasers are now promoting a new wireless Taser.
It has a range of 100 feet.

They make it sound like a great tool, but I fear the day when your neighborhood Barney Fife gets one.

Here's the company's promo video:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5eb_1191378481

and web site:
http://www2.taser.com/products/law/Pages/XREP.aspx

[Michelle]

..............

They make it sound like a great tool, but I fear the day when your neighborhood Barney Fife gets one..........

Uh-huh and it seems to me that there was a gov't in the past that used cattle prods to control 'undesirables'.

[david henman]

"some new technology"
So go back to hugging trees, Hippy.....

"they use chemical (sic.)weopons"
Weapons? What chemical weapons???

Get a grip.

"they give him a Glock,"
There's a BIG difference between pepper spray and a glock... anybody with HALF a brain cell can tell you that.

...clint, do you ever get tired of reminding us how clever you are and how stupid everybody else is?

:bow:

-dh

[david henman]

"in cases of drug use resulting in elevated heart rates"
So, you're mostly talking about recreational, illegal drug use?

Quite frankly, if some skiteheel with more money than brains gets "hepped up on goofballs", throws a fit, gets 'tazed' by cops and dies as a result, I couldn't care less.


:zzz::zzz::zzz:

-dh

[ClintonHammond]

"Tasers should be outlawed."
Then only outlaws will have tazers....

What a crock....

[bRian]

Another death in Nova Scotia, Halifax Deputy Police Chief says a man was Taser'd at the Correctional Center and died several hours later. They're waiting for the coroner's report.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9004677.html

[ClintonHammond]

"They're waiting for the coroner's report."
As should everyone else.

[Milkman]

I think Tazer use should be expanded to include people who order toasted bagels in the Tim Hortons drive through, senior citizens who choose lunch time to do their banking and driver's licence renewals and anyone who impedes me personally in any way.


Seems reasonable to me.

[ClintonHammond]

I suspect that attitude is only likely to ensure that YOU get tazerd sooner than other people!

LOL

[Canman]

"some new technology"
So go back to hugging trees, Hippy.....

"they use chemical (sic.)weopons"
Weapons? What chemical weapons???

Get a grip.

"they give him a Glock,"
There's a BIG difference between pepper spray and a glock... anybody with HALF a brain cell can tell you that.



Pepper spray, is a chemical weapon for one, as is tear gas.

Hugging trees?

I dont think you're educated or old enough to know what a hippy is, or to have a disscussion on such matters as this topic.
Conversations with persons like you are better had in a beer parlour or perhaps in a basement suite smoking dope, watching highly intellectual and informative shows like South Park and Trailer Park boys or over at your 38 year old freinds parents home playing the last years newest video game release.


But I dont think you should ever have to be tazered. :-)

[shad]

I don't have any negative opinions about the tazer itself, I figure the cops need a weapon that is effective, but less lethal than a gun. Having said that, I think that maybe the cops should have a very strict policy on when it is appropriate to use the tazer.

In the airport video it is obvious to me that the Polish fellow was not attacking the police officers, so the tazering was not in self defence. It seems painfully obvious to me that they acted way to quickly, they should have tried calming the man down and they should have been making every effort to find an interpreter.

Anyway, IMHO this case is not about the tazer at all, it's about when and if, it should be used. Just my 2 cents.

[RIFF WRATH]

read a bunch of stuff this morning that is tazer related...the gist of it is that the guys who run the company have good big $ lawyers on retainer and are jumping around the US, mostly winning court cases, but there are a lot pending.......the police are on their own defending themselves in what might be called "wrongful deaths?" ......however there are a couple of cases involving cops who were tazered in training who have compensation claims against the tazer company.......it is all obviously subject to personal interpretation.....and we do know that the US litigation system has gone crazy with all sorts of class action stuff......IMHO I think they should be cranked down in power......have you ever tested a 9V battery on your tongue...or an electric horse fence..(your hand, not your tongue...and BTW you will onlu urinate on an electric fence once...thats enough Zap for me LOL.......also IMHO there are way to many situations of unwarrented overzealousness with the police today but like everything else the few spoil it for the many and I sure a pluk wouldn't want their job.

[ClintonHammond]

"I dont think you're educated or old enough"
Show's what you know.... You don't know squat about me.

You have however demonstrated that you, on the other hand are an arrogant arsehole...

As if there was something wrong with South Park, or people who enjoy Trailer Park Boys or video games.... Why don't you come down off your high FKN horse...

"I dont think you should ever have to be tazered."
It's worth noting that what you've said most often is, "I don't think."

"cops need a weapon that is effective, but less lethal than a gun"
Abso-FN-lootly!

"the cops should have a very strict policy"
Do we know that they don't?

[Xanadu]

"I dont think you're educated or old enough"
Show's what you know.... You don't know squat about me.


I know that you don't know how to use the quote button.

Also you seem to be always looking to argue with people; do you have opposition disorder or did somebody just not love you enough when you were a child?

[ClintonHammond]

It's pretty sad when you can only come up with a comment about the form of my posts....

I guess the content must have you stymied....

"I think they should be cranked down in power"
They're not supposed to tickle.... They are a tool for incapacitating dangerous people....

[Canman]

IyiyiYi--better not where that one downtown on a friday nite. I'll go for the phoney rubber if I get into it.


Clintonhammond

Sir I apologise to ye for remarks made unthinkable, methinks I ride too high.

[nitehawk55]

I've watched the video several times and honestly the whole situation is a shame it went the way it did . I feel the police acted too quickly in tazering this fellow and should have tried to physically restrain him if that was needed .
The whole sad thing about this is the Polish fellow had no knowledge of the airport and was confused as to where he should go to meet his mother who was waiting for him . From what I understand aprox 5-6 hours went by and this fellow could not and did not get any assistance from anyone in the airport . Could you imagine yourself in a strange country in this situation and not able to get help or communicate ? I think you would be come anxious too .
Very sad it came to the conclusion it did . It will be interesting to see how the investigation turns out .

[Canman]

I see on the news another has died from tazer this one from NS.

My heart goes out to all on both sides.

Our leaders talk of moritoriums and wanting to see the scientific evidence.
No one has the balls to stand up and admit the big mistake, much too much of our money involved.
When will we wake up and ban the use of this excessive force weapon!

If a police officer cant use a batton correctly and safely to subdue a unruly individual then he should be in a different line.

If a police kills someone with a baton, he's subject to a lot of trouble
with -tasers ? Blame the weapon.

Maybe if a few lawsuits were won over the officials they would soon see the poor expenditure of public monies and greif this whole tazer thing has become.

I say stop all use now!

[nitehawk55]

I don't think they should stop the use but there certainly should be some very strict guidlines for their use . Police do need a means of defence and in certain situations a tazer would be justified .

4 big cops and 1 man , I don't think so in that case and certainly not tazering him twice .

[Canman]

I think they should stop it, take the money and put it into Police training and R&D for a more sophisticated device which maybe has more settings or a limiter or some kind of microchip which the firee can enter specific things like weight, body mass height or what ever it takes.
If it all works out and seems okay then...Then bring them back.

I think the whole thing needs a bit more research and Police training in regards to the seriousness of the situations.

What if someone hit a 5 year old with one or somebodys grandparent with one of those? 5 or 6 people a year is to high a cost.
And the incidents are rising? Some questions have to be asked and answers found.
Sometimes the easiest way is not the best way.

[laristotle]

I think Tazer use should be expanded to include people who order toasted bagels in the Tim Hortons drive through, senior citizens who choose lunch time to do their banking and driver's licence renewals and anyone who impedes me personally in any way.


Seems reasonable to me.

My wife used to have a battery operated laser/bomb/gun novelty gizmo
that flashes, double-back taped to her dashboard (mid 80's). She misses it.

[david henman]

You have however demonstrated that you, on the other hand are an arrogant arsehole...


...pot, there's a collect call for you on line two.

someone calling himself kettle.

-dh