a decent head?

[I_cant_play]

Ok here's the deal,

I recently joined a band and I'm discovering that my 20watt solid state 110 amp isn't cutting it in a band situation. It's a very loud band, the other guitarist plays through a 412 cab with some kind of a fender head. Anyway, the rehearsal place we use has guitar cabs in it so I was thinking of just buying a head and taking that with me to the gigs and not worrying about the cab for now. Then, when a decent deal comes up on craigslist for a 212 cab I'd get that or even more ideally, buy an empty 212 and grab 2 of those cheap celestion clones and have them installed. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? Also, I don't know anything about cab ohms so if someone can fill me in on what kind of head I need to look for since I'd like to be able to put it through a 212 at home and a 412 at rehearsal. For example would that new Traynor YCS head work in these situations?

I have the option, of renting marshall valvestate heads from the reahearsal space so it's not important for me to get this ASAP but I'd like to get a good tube head when a deal pops up. Also, I wouldn't mind having the head for a long time without a cab and waiting for the right deal on the cab to show up. I'm willing I suppose to go up to maybe $700 for the head. Anyone have any suggestions or is there any obvious (technical) problems with what I've thought out here? Also, I would rather take this approach than get a combo since I can just take the head with me to rehearsal and it would be much easier to transport. I also think this would be a much better setup in the long run since I have the option of getting a really nice cab and messing with speaker combinations etc..

I would also like at least a 30watt head, preferrably 50. I know what many people are gonna say " you don't need that much" but these guys play really really loud and I dont ever want to be in a position where I can't be heard (besides I want a 212 cab instead of a 412 to prevent it from being too loud)

thank you

[Robert1950]

What type of 'loud' music???

[I_cant_play]

Kind of alternative rock. No high gain is needed but I'd love a good driven and a good clean sound. I loved a vox ac 30 a tried some time ago. The only amp ever that's completely impressed me. To be honest, I don't know which would be more important, the clean or the driven tones since I love both. I'm currently considering a Mesa Boogie 0.5 caliber+ and a Carvin Legacy since I've seen both on craigslist recently and they may still be for sale.

[GuitaristZ]

At least CHECK OUT a marshall dsl50...its the head I have and its plenty loud, sounds great, and yeah you can find them lightly used now for VERY cheap...only like 600-800$

Definately check it out, dont let the naysayers discourage you, because I tell you, this head is definately suited to heavy music and still, the one channel does vintage type tones well too.

GO FOR IT!

If anybody here says this head sucks, well, its probably because they are a nerd or something... :)

[zdogma]

A used Peavey classic 30 or 50 head would cover most of what ouy're describing. Used DSL or TSL heads are often very good deals as well. A used (old time) traynor head would be a good option as well if you don't need too much gain, or you could put a pedal in front of it.

[I_cant_play]

unfortunately, I've seen quite a few combos (212) but I have yet to see a vox ac30 head for sale.

Does anyone have any experience with the mesa boogie 50 cal+ or the carvin legacy. I searched the forums and found some good stuff about the legacy but is there anyone that could tell me how they compare? I have a friend willing to sell me a legacy head for $600 and I can get a 50 cal+ for about $500. Which would be a better deal. To be honest, the absolutely primary concern is reliability at this point. I remember reading here that Mesas are a pain to service but I'm guessing Carvins aren't much better either. I'm also thinking the Legacy would be more suitable for classic rock stuff. I realize it has a more modern tone but I believe I could make it work for the classic rock "marshall" type tone too.

[Universe]

I just got a Peavey Ultra Plus for 240 off Ebay and it totally slays through a good cab.

[violation]

Carvin Legacy ****in' rips dude, $600 is a steal IMO. Grab it while you can!

That and the Peavey Ultra are easily the best high gain tube amps for the money. The only problem is finding them in Canada, most on eBay are in the US which you'd have to add in the mad fees. When you do see them on eBay, more often then not, people will snatch it within hours of it being posted (as long as there is a 'Buy it Now').

Of course just 'cause they're high gain doesn't mean you have to use them with a ton of gain. Just ask Steve Vai!

If you want to go new check out the Laney GH50L. I think it's like $975 though but it's fantastic... one channel but if you roll back the volume on your guitar it cleans up very nicely. I'm gonna' be buying it's 2 channel version (Laney VH100R) either this or next month... costs like $1600 though.

[Budda]

maybe i missed it, but why do you need a head?

$5 says a nice 112 or 212 tube combo would do you just fine (mesa rectoverb, marshall JCM800 combo, traynor YCV50)

[I_cant_play]

maybe i missed it, but why do you need a head?

$5 says a nice 112 or 212 tube combo would do you just fine (mesa rectoverb, marshall JCM800 combo, traynor YCV50)


Like I said, the band plays really really loud. I'm pretty sure a 112 wouldn't do it. A 212 would but I'd rather have a 212 cab and a head cause it's easier to transport and I have the option of getting a better head to use with the same cab in the more distant future. The other guitarist plays through a 412 cab so it's not easy to keep up volume-wise. Tube combos are heavy so for convenience sake I'd rather have a 50 pound head and a cab rather than a 100 pound 212 combo.

[Roidster]

i seen there was a fender half stack for 350 on craigslist in van

[adamthemute]

Marshall JCM900's can be found cheap sometimes and are good gain amps.

[Robert1950]

If you like the Vox Sound, then I don't see why you settle for anything less. There are also a number of Voxish amps out there (take time and do a search). If you need something soon, then get something like a Peavey 30 Head. NOt too expensive and it should be easy to move once you find Your Voxy type amp.

Also what type of speakers were in the ACC30 you tried.

[Budda]

number of speakers doesnt dictate volume - put a mesa mark IV next to his halfstack and you'd probably swallow him whole.

AC30 head and an avatar 212 then, if that's what you're set on.

[I_cant_play]

number of speakers doesnt dictate volume - put a mesa mark IV next to his halfstack and you'd probably swallow him whole.



Really? I started thinking this way after I tried a traynor CV50 a long time ago in a guitar shop and I was surprised how quiet it was even when dimed. At the time I had a solid state 100watt Randall 212 combo that was much louder than the cv50 so I assumed that since tubes are generally louder than solid state, that the extra speaker made the difference.

In my current band I'm pretty sure the CV50 would be dimed 100% of the time.

Also what type of speakers were in the ACC30 you tried.


you know, I actually forgot to check! :( I can tell you it was $1000CAD for the 212 combo (it was the Top Boost model). I also only tried it out at VERY low volumes so I'm still not 100% sure I'd like it for what I need. You see, I'm kind of torn between sounds if you will. I know the Legacy will be able to handle the harder stuff without a pedal better than the vox but the vox clean to me is just heavenly. I've tried a twin before and I like the vox clean much better. I'm thinking of going to see if I can rent a head from L&M


Also, would a 30watt amp (vox for example) with a 212 be able to keep up to a halfstack? I assumed that since the other guy plays a 412, I'd need either a 412 myself or a 212 with a higher wattage amp. Was I correct in thinking this? This is why I was so interested in that Legacy amp

[Roidster]

30 watts will not compete with 100 watts,if he has a 50watt head then you should be fine,i would recommend a 50 watt head for practice and gigs

[david henman]

...take a good look at traynor amps. huge bang for your buck.

-dh

[NB-SK]

Yeah, I'd go with either a Traynor or the Legacy (I want one of those bad...Too bad I gotta wait until I'm back in Canada).

[Stratin2traynor]

If you're looking for an AC30 head, there is one on eBay. Kind of expensive though IMO...

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Vox-Amps-AC30CCH-Custom-Classic-Head-AC30-New_W0QQitemZ110166605121QQihZ001QQcategoryZ38077Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[suttree]

the vox at 30 watts is loud enough to keep up with a heavy hitting drummer, but that's about it. i consider it perfect (i play an ac30 combo), but then i also do sound, and cant stand runaway volumes. for a more powerful "poor mans" vox, the peavey classic 50 head is a good choice, it uses the same output tubes, and has some of that wonderful vox chime (for a reasonable price). you can also find used vox ac100 heads that are much more powerful, but i haven't heard them myself (they're not common), so i can't comment on the tone. the laney heads are also british, and have that nice tone on a budget. the laney tt models are more british metal, the gh stuff is more marshall/vox cross. used they are quite cheap, so you can afford one. marshall is a great dirty channel, but most people find they're not the best in the clean department. you could always try an older fender tube head, too. if you want my unsolicited 2 cents worth, tell the other guitar player to turn down a little, you'll sound better if you can all hear each other.

as to cabs, it's confusing, the impedance numbers, i know. basically you'll see mostly 8 and 16 ohm cabinets, and most heads will match that. you want to make sure though that what you buy will work together. next time you're at the jam spot, check the Marshall cabs (they're most likely 8 ohm mono and 16 ohm stereo. since you won't be running two heads on the cab, it'll be 8 ohms), and when you buy a head look at the back (there should be lightning bolts next to the power outs) for what impedances the head can run. impedance numbers go down when impedance goes up (4 ohms is a higher impedance than 8 ohms)... you can safely run an 8 ohm amp at 16 ohms all day long (wont sound its full 100% best though), but i don't recommend going the other way.

[Budda]

uh, moving a head and a 212 cab is not easier then just a 212 combo :P.

i thought my JSX was quiet.. until i engaged the fx loop and put the send and return on 10 - it's 120W alright!

get whatever suits you. an AC30 w/ alnico blues or whatever they are will be pretty stinkin loud, beacuse the speakers are crazily efficient.

[Hamm Guitars]

.... impedance numbers go down when impedance goes up (4 ohms is a higher impedance than 8 ohms)... you can safely run an 8 ohm amp at 16 ohms all day long (wont sound its full 100% best though), but i don't recommend going the other way.

The impedance of a load is a determining factor in the output of an amplifier. Less impedance (the product of resistance, inductance and capacitance) means that the amplifier can deliver more power. Higher impedance results in lower output power.

Think of running down a steep hill, the lower the impedance the steeper the hill. If the slope of the hill is too steep (too little impedance), you're going to fall flat on your face.

Putting too low of an impedance load on an amplifier causes it to run hot and stresses the amp. The lowest impedance would be a short circuit, where the highest would be an open circuit.

I think what suttree was trying to say was that power output goes up when impedance of the load goes down.

[Wild Bill]

The impedance of a load is a determining factor in the output of an amplifier. Less impedance (the product of resistance, inductance and capacitance) means that the amplifier can deliver more power. Higher impedance results in lower output power.

Think of running down a steep hill, the lower the impedance the steeper the hill. If the slope of the hill is too steep (too little impedance), you're going to fall flat on your face.

Putting too low of an impedance load on an amplifier causes it to run hot and stresses the amp. The lowest impedance would be a short circuit, where the highest would be an open circuit.

I think what suttree was trying to say was that power output goes up when impedance of the load goes down.

There's a bit more to it, Andy. You're right that a lower impedance means more power but only with solid state amps.

If you look at the data sheets for output tubes you'll see curves that show the power output and distortion level for a given plate load. That load is ratioed down in the output transformer to 8 ohms or whatever. The curves are kinda broad and shallow. Even though a 2:1 mismatch on the speaker side will mean the same mismatch with the tube load it will still likely give the same value on the curve. This means that you can have BIG mismatches and not change the power output much. You might even slightly improve it! The distortion curve is rarely so broad and you may find bigger differences with this factor. It may make the distortion less and the amp sound more hifi, or go the other way and make a harsher sound.

When things are matched so that the 4 ohm output drives a 4 ohm cab or a 16 ohm output drives a 16 ohm cab the output power in both cases will be exactly the same. The output trannie has taps on its output winding so that the turns ratio between the winding on the speaker side and the winding on the tubes side ensures that the tube load stays the same.

Solid state amps have no output transformer and directly feed the load. You're quite correct that a 4 ohm load is lower than an 8 ohm load. It's an easier path for current, like a bigger pipe for water that has less resistance to the flow. So lower loads mean more current flow from the output transistors. That's why the head will have a limit posted like "Do not allow a speaker load lower than 4 ohms or this amp will cook itself to a horrible painful death! And tough noogies about your warranty!"

.02

:food-smiley-004:

[I_cant_play]

thanks for clearing up the ohms issue for me. I think I got a handle on that now.

Now Budda,

I'm a little confused. You're saying the number of speakers has no effect on volume? Then why do people say 412s are overkill? I'd really like to get a combo but I'm afraid it won't be able to hang with my other guitarist. He plays the fender cybertwin head through a 412 and my rhythm playing sounds quite weak in comparison. We also have some gigs coming up and it seems there'll be a lot more to come and I'd really like to improve my sound and volume. My solid state amp just sounds way too trebbly and middy and has no low end but has a decent clean sound. It's certainly usable as a practice amp but not something I'd like to go on stage with for the kind of music we'll be playing. Is there a 112 tube combo that can "hang" with a 412 solid state stack? Can someone clear up this volume issue for me so I know what to look for?

[Hamm Guitars]

There's a bit more to it, Andy. You're right that a lower impedance means more power but only with solid state amps.

If you look at the data sheets for output tubes you'll see curves that show the power output and distortion level for a given plate load. That load is ratioed down in the output transformer to 8 ohms or whatever. The curves are kinda broad and shallow. Even though a 2:1 mismatch on the speaker side will mean the same mismatch with the tube load it will still likely give the same value on the curve. This means that you can have BIG mismatches and not change the power output much. You might even slightly improve it! The distortion curve is rarely so broad and you may find bigger differences with this factor. It may make the distortion less and the amp sound more hifi, or go the other way and make a harsher sound.

When things are matched so that the 4 ohm output drives a 4 ohm cab or a 16 ohm output drives a 16 ohm cab the output power in both cases will be exactly the same. The output trannie has taps on its output winding so that the turns ratio between the winding on the speaker side and the winding on the tubes side ensures that the tube load stays the same.

Solid state amps have no output transformer and directly feed the load. You're quite correct that a 4 ohm load is lower than an 8 ohm load. It's an easier path for current, like a bigger pipe for water that has less resistance to the flow. So lower loads mean more current flow from the output transistors. That's why the head will have a limit posted like "Do not allow a speaker load lower than 4 ohms or this amp will cook itself to a horrible painful death! And tough noogies about your warranty!"

.02

:food-smiley-004:

Hi Bill,

My electronics background is in solid state and digital, tubes were long before my time.

I was under the impression that the output stage of a tube amp was feeding into the primary of the output transformer, and therefore relitively constant (which I think you just stated). The output transformer has taps that match the impedance of the load.

Are you telling me that if I put a 16 Ohm load on the 4 Ohm tap that I would get a louder output than if the same load was attached to the 16 Ohm tap? This may also mean that putting a 4 Ohm load on the 16 ohm tap may yeild less power than if it was attached to the proper 4 Ohm tap?

I'm trying to get me head around as to why this would work in the oposite way as a solid state amps transformerless output, but it's late....

[violation]

thanks for clearing up the ohms issue for me. I think I got a handle on that now.

Now Budda,

I'm a little confused. You're saying the number of speakers has no effect on volume? Then why do people say 412s are overkill? I'd really like to get a combo but I'm afraid it won't be able to hang with my other guitarist. He plays the fender cybertwin head through a 412 and my rhythm playing sounds quite weak in comparison. We also have some gigs coming up and it seems there'll be a lot more to come and I'd really like to improve my sound and volume. My solid state amp just sounds way too trebbly and middy and has no low end but has a decent clean sound. It's certainly usable as a practice amp but not something I'd like to go on stage with for the kind of music we'll be playing. Is there a 112 tube combo that can "hang" with a 412 solid state stack? Can someone clear up this volume issue for me so I know what to look for?
Most people who say 4x12 is overkill are the ones who don't like moving them around or can't play loud often. I live in the middle of the nowhere and I always say the bigger the better lol.

Cabinets don't change the wattage of the amp but they do make it sound louder in the sense that they're running through more then 1 speaker so it makes it sound more 'spread out' and 'full'. Then the cabinet design and speakers can change the amount of low, mid and highs. Most people I've talked to prefer straight cabs.

1x12 combo vs 4x12 stack... hah, it really depends on what you want but volume-wise, yeah a nice loud 1x12 tube combo could stand it's own with a solid state half stack. Like a 60 watt Peavey XXX combo will kill a 100 watt solid state half stack volume-wise but the half stack will sound more 'full' due to the size of the cab... it'll have a lot more bass too.

1x12 combo + 4x12 = nice option... most combos have speaker out. Bring the combo alone if you're gotta' be portable or just practice and throw in the 4x12 or 2x12 for gigs haha.

[Wild Bill]

Hi Bill,

My electronics background is in solid state and digital, tubes were long before my time.

I was under the impression that the output stage of a tube amp was feeding into the primary of the output transformer, and therefore relitively constant (which I think you just stated). The output transformer has taps that match the impedance of the load.

Are you telling me that if I put a 16 Ohm load on the 4 Ohm tap that I would get a louder output than if the same load was attached to the 16 Ohm tap? This may also mean that putting a 4 Ohm load on the 16 ohm tap may yeild less power than if it was attached to the proper 4 Ohm tap?

I'm trying to get me head around as to why this would work in the oposite way as a solid state amps transformerless output, but it's late....

Not really. The tubes want to see a certain load impedance. This figure comes from a data sheet curve that is broad as a barn door. You might want to google up Duncan Amp's site. They have a link to tube data and data sheets that will show you these curves.

So there is a broad range of plate load values as well as a range for distortion amounts. The output transformer works as a fixed ratio for impedances, just like it would for voltages. A constant impedance is as impossible as a constant secondary voltage if you changed the input voltage. If you have a 4k plate side load stepped down to 4 ohms on the speaker secondary side, then if you put an 8 ohm speaker onto that 4 ohm tap you would see 8k as the load on the primary side! The ratio is fixed, just like a voltage transformer. Change one side and the other must change to match.

However, 8k is still an acceptable load, if you look at that data sheet load curve. The power may be slightly lower, especially in a tube amp that likely was designed for max power. By lower I'm talking only a few %. The load mismatches are causing waste heat, sorta like a mismatched CB antenna.

As I had said, the curves usually show that best power and best distortion rarely want the same plate load. Suppose you were dealing with a hifi amp that didn't care about a watt or two less power out but wanted things as clean as possbible. If you put a mismatch on the speakers and thus changed the plate load it could be quite likely that the new load was closer to the optimum for power out. You get an extra watt or two! The tradeoff was more distortion, but likely only a couple of percent.

Note that I'm talking small amounts here. In your example you will not see double the power. More like 1% or 2%. The point is that the amp will not blow up under such a mismatch and most ears will not notice much difference. It WILL be a bit of a strain on the power tubes and will shave a few weeks or months off the tube life.

I hope this is more clear!

:food-smiley-004:

[Wild Bill]

Most people who say 4x12 is overkill are the ones who don't like moving them around or can't play loud often. I live in the middle of the nowhere and I always say the bigger the better lol.



+1! It's all just moving air!

The more cone area (more speakers, in this case) the more air you'll move. So it will sound louder.

Obviously 4 speakers will have more total cone area than just one. Would 4 light bulbs not be brighter than just one?

You do have each speaker taking a bit of a power loss from having to share with more neighbours on the string but the extra efficiency of more cone area still makes it worthwhile.

It's just physics. You can't argue with Mother Nature!:smile:

:food-smiley-004:

[Budda]

try a mesa boogie stiletto ace and a traynor YCS combo and YCV50 combo.

and if you want tight low end, get a closed back combo! or make it closed back, as the case may be :P.

EQ plays a large part. also, if your gigs arent mic'd and you plan on staying a band for a while, someone (the singer?) or the whole band can contribute some funds to buy a PA system. mic up the amps!

remember this: the guitar tones should contribute to the band, its not all about one member of the band. so you and your guitarist should EQ your amps so that you can distinguish between the two of you, and the blend helps the music that you play.

[I_cant_play]

cool thanks for the replies everyone :smile:

[Robert1950]

Saw this 50w Vox head on eBay Canada.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Vox-AC50CPH-Classic-Plus-50W-Guitar-Amp-Head-MINT_W0QQitemZ180159743939QQihZ008QQcategoryZ38077 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[I_cant_play]

thanks Robert,

but sadly, it's way out of my price range. If I was willing to spend that kind of money I'd probably get a used Rivera Quiana in the States.

EDIT:

just want to get something clarified

you can safely run an 8 ohm amp at 16 ohms all day long (wont sound its full 100% best though), but i don't recommend going the other way.


are you saying that if my amp can handle an 8 ohm cab I can play it through a 16 ohm 412 but running it through a 4ohm cab would damage it? At my rehearsal space there are 16ohm 412s and I was looking at that new YCS50 combo amp so I was wondering if I'd be able to put it through the 412. The online manual says it can be hooked up to 2 8ohm cabs.

[bcmatt]

Here's another suggestion... if you are still taking them.
What do you think of trying a Ceriatone clone of a Matchless DC30?
I believe that Matchless is a high-end hand-wired off-shoot of Vox amps. It's Class A, and can dial in some real nice Vox sounds, as well as a bit more versatility in sound with a couple channels.
I bought this amp from Ceriatone.com and wired it up myself. After shipping and everything, it cost me about $750. I am loving the sound so far; My cabinet for it isn't quite finished yet though. Anyways, I thought I would throw that out there.
Oh ya, for power, I find it to be way to much. I have the switch on the back always down at low (15W rather than the full 30W), and I still have too keep the volume very low. If I wasn't considering the occasional outdoor gigs, I would have gotten the smaller "Lightening" clone. But everyone tries ceriatone seems very pleased...probably worth checking them out online.

[Kapo_Polenton]

Hadn't heard of anyone from Canada ordering from Ceriatone.. what was the original cost of the item? all said and done 750$ ain't bad. I was toying with the idea of making a jcm800 for christmas.. I was just worried about taxes and customs and shipping and the amount of time it would take.

[Budda]

someone in toronto is selling a ceriatone 100W plexi clone for $750

[bcmatt]

All the kits are priced on the website (although now I see that he doesn't explicitly say "Matchless, Marshall, Fender, Trainwreck" anymore (probably because he got in trouble- or to avoid it).
Anyways, all the prices are in US dollars, so now's a good time to buy. I bought the DC30 Package 2. This was because I wanted to assemble it myself.
Here's the break down of cost for me:

DC30 package 2 = UD 524

Tubes = USD 84

Subtotal = USD 608

Shipment to Canada = USD 94

Total = USD 702

The exchange rate about 2 months ago put it at about $758 Canadian.

They shipped with DHL and I had to fax them a power of attorney form with my credit card number for customs. The total travel time would have probably been less than a week if I had foreseen that and been on the ball. In the end I paid $21.64 Canadian for total customs fees and taxes. I may have been lucky-I'm not sure. I guess Nik at Ceriatone declared the value at $100, but I didn't know and guessed that the value of the parts were about $400 on my declaration form. Maybe they believed him rather than me, and based the taxes on that, I'm not sure. Customs remains unpredictable to me sometimes.

[bcmatt]

... and the amount of time it would take.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I think it took me between 40-50 hours. It's hard to gauge because sometimes I would just enjoy sitting in front of it staring. I tried to make the project last for maximum enjoyment, but I think it was hard to spread out more than 2 weeks, even with my very time-consuming job with little free time those weeks.
I documented the story on a blog, and it is still going as my dad makes the cabinet:
http://yeomansinstruments.blogspot.com/

[Kapo_Polenton]

Wow, not too sure i am crazy about faxing them my credit card number! However, you are right, the time is now to buy. I built a Weber but in hindsight, the chassis was too crammed. He did something with the filter caps which put them in the way and the chassis is smaller than your average chassis used for 50 and 100 watt amps.... i have seen people do it differently given that layout and mounting 50/50 caps to the side so that might still be an option as well. Besides, for 490$ you can get the entire kit + head cab. All you need to do is use better caps and possibly upgrade the tranny. That is also an option. If you are handy , I woul dencourage people to check out Weber's stuff.. you do however have to do some swapping of components to get he goods which makes Nick's kits better because he has better components from the get go. So how does the whole DHL process work? He ships with them, you follow up with them with your credit card info, they pass it through customs, and you pay them shipping plus customs?

[I_cant_play]

ah, sadly, being a student in university, I really don't have the time to put one of these kits together, never mind learning how to do so seeing how I have very little experience with electronics. Indeed, if I knew how to do this, I would have ordered a kit and my decision would be a lot easier. But thanks for the great suggestion and that ceriatone plexi in toronto would be great if I wasn't in Vancouver.

Also, a traynor YGL mark 3 head slipped through my fingers. A guy was asking 600 dollars for the head and 412 cab but when I emailed him he said he changed his mind about selling it.:mad:

I'm still hoping one of these jewels comes up again..

[bcmatt]

Oh, ya, I guess the Ceriatone ones are getting up there in cost, but they do have quality components. I should mention that you can get the amp completely assembled as well; that is one of the options. It is only about 70 dollars more expensive to have him completely assemble it before sending it. That seems a bit ridiculous on the cheap side, seeing that it took me over 40 hours to do it myself, and I can't twist wires nearly as tight or tidily as Nik can. So, I guess it is like paying a top expert less than 2 dollars an hour to assemble your amp for you. If I wasn't so longing to learn more about amps, I would have set my mind at ease and let him do it. ..And I am a bit of cheapskate. I'd rather save $1.50 and work for an hour myself. That's probably what I'm worth.

[bcmatt]

Also, a traynor YGL mark 3 head slipped through my fingers. A guy was asking 600 dollars for the head and 412 cab but when I emailed him he said he changed his mind about selling it.:mad:

I'm still hoping one of these jewels comes up again..

I probably shouldn't mention that I got my YGL for free from a friend who left it at my house 7 years ago and wouldn't come pick it up. Since then, I took up guitar, and then only in the last year realized how blessed I was. I had to spend a couple hundred dollars to get it working right, but only in recent months am fully appreciating it.

[I_cant_play]

I probably shouldn't mention that I got my YGL for free from a friend who left it at my house 7 years ago and wouldn't come pick it up. Since then, I took up guitar, and then only in the last year realized how blessed I was. I had to spend a couple hundred dollars to get it working right, but only in recent months am fully appreciating it.

I hate you. I really do. :smile: Here I am, willing to pay more than the market value for this thing and some dude just leaves it in your lap. That's just dandy!

[Kapo_Polenton]

Why not check the songbirdmusic.com site. I think they ship and I see YGL's now and again.. yeah Nick's prices for fully assembled seems ridiculous on some builds. The guy charges hardly anything for his time or the time of his 2 cent n hour workers lol! lofu

[Budda]

I hate you. I really do. :smile: Here I am, willing to pay more than the market value for this thing and some dude just leaves it in your lap. That's just dandy!

i dont even want to know what you think of me then :P