Building my own 4 by 10 cab- Questions

[music 43]

What is the best wood to use for this kind of cab? What are the best 10" speakers for bluesy tone but not too too expensive? Any pointers/suggestions would be much appreciated

[greco]

I designed a 1x12" cab and a friend built it for me.

The three choices of wood that we considered were:
MDF board
Baltic Birch plywood
Pine

We chose pine in the end. It is light weight, easy to work with, easy to find at suppliers and we were not going to tolex it so...easy to finish also. Pine is also thought to produce a more "warm" sound but has a "loose" low end.

The baffle is floating and is made from 1/2" (or metric equivalent) baltic birch. With 4x10" you would probably want to go thicker.

Hope this helps a bit.

Dave

[music 43]

I designed a 1x12" cab and a friend built it for me.

The three choices of wood that we considered were:
MDF board
Baltic Birch plywood
Pine

We chose pine in the end. It is light weight, easy to work with, easy to find at suppliers and we were not going to tolex it so...easy to finish also. Pine is also thought to produce a more "warm" sound but has a "loose" low end.

The baffle is floating and is made from 1/2" (or metric equivalent) baltic birch. With 4x10" you would probably want to go thicker.

Hope this helps a bit.

Dave

Thanks for the reply.

What's a floating baffle? I'm new to this so need to find out all these technical terms. Do you know of any websites with tech info on this stuff?

Maybe I should go with baltic birch plywood since I'm doing a 4/10? We're going to tolex it too...

chris

[Geek]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.
Maybe I should go with baltic birch plywood since I'm doing a 4/10? We're going to tolex it too...

If you're going to Tolex it, 3/4" or 1" furniture grade ply would be OK. Unlike construction grade, it'll be free of pits and rattles.

Baltic Birch is a better tonewood and stronger (and unless it's on sale, 5 to 8 times the price!), but to tolex that would be a shame.

Box joints are a good idea, but if you don't have a router table or jig, use hardwood dowel pegs and cleats.

Cheers!

[music 43]

Hi,



If you're going to Tolex it, 3/4" or 1" furniture grade ply would be OK. Unlike construction grade, it'll be free of pits and rattles.

Baltic Birch is a better tonewood and stronger (and unless it's on sale, 5 to 8 times the price!), but to tolex that would be a shame.

Box joints are a good idea, but if you don't have a router table or jig, use hardwood dowel pegs and cleats.

Cheers!



Thanks!

My girlfriend's dad is building it and he's a machinist at a moulding company so hopefully they'll have router tables or jigs to box the joints. How much heavier will baltic birch be than pine? I think I'm going to cover it in tweed instead of tolex because the amp we're making for it (Trinity amps deluxe kit) is going to be done in tweed as well.

We're not sure if we should make it with the classic bassman dimensions (w:23 1/2", h:22 5/8", d:10 1/2") or the dimensions of the dr z 4 by 10 (24"/24"/10"). What do you guys think?

[iaresee]

What's a floating baffle? I'm new to this so need to find out all these technical terms.
Ask away! We were all new at one time. This month's Guitar Player with Alex Lifeson on the cover actually has a nice article that talks about speaker cabinets and the effect they have on your sound. Quick way to get up to speed.

The baffle is the part of the cabinet where the speaker cones are mounted. You can make a baffle "float" by not affixing it to all sides of the cab, by kind of "hanging" it from the top and bottom using brackets or a small wood brace. It lets the baffle move more with the speakers. Here's an example of a floating baffle (http://www.kilback.net/homebrewtweaks/cab/sk-15cab4.jpg) (although I personally think even that's too attached -- it's kind of a semi-floating baffle).

A fixed baffle would be where you take the baffle and screw it down tight along all sides to the cabinet walls so it doesn't vibrate nearly as much.

For 10" cabs my personal taste is 1/2" pine with a semi-open back. Nice open, 3D sound.

[greco]

The baffle is the board that the speakers are mounted to. Floating means that the baffle is attached at 2 sides only, thus allowing the baffle to move (to some extent) with the vibrations/movement of the speakers. Fender used this concept in their early designs, along with quite a thin baffle...to allow for more movement.

The dimensions of the cab can be calculted mathematically based on a number of factors. One visit to a a hi-fi speaker building site will yield a number of formulae to "help" you with this. I didn't use them. I basically copied the size of typical cabs.

You will want to decide if you want the back to be open or closed back (or partially open/closed). You can start with it open and allow (in your design) for it to be closed in the future...if you decide to try closed. Closed apparently gives a more "tight" bottom end and more "focused" sound. You can also get into porting the cab....this is something I know very little about. Also, this generally applies more to stereo speakers, but some folks use the same concepts in cabs for guitar speakers.

Box joints are strong and look great (if you are not using tolex/tweed). The main thing is to make STRONG corners/joints...whatever joinery techniques you decide to use.

I would think that either sets of the dimensions that you have listed would be fine.

There is a book on the topic at: http://www.londonpower.com

Dave
PS I think that iaresee and I were typing at the same time. LOL

[Roidster]

popular is a great wood for making guitar cabs,and is used by a few manufactures

[Geek]

Hi,

My girlfriend's dad is building it and he's a machinist at a moulding company so hopefully they'll have router tables or jigs to box the joints.

Bonus!

Most likely he will have the tooling. If he makes fibreglass, kevlar or carbon fibre moulds, wood will be a vacation for the bits :D


How much heavier will baltic birch be than pine?

I deal almost exclusively with 3/4" and while I haven't weighed the difference, it's about two to three times heavier than solid pine by feel (I don't have a significant enough birch in stock right now to weigh).

Do definately use the birch for the baffle.

I like to now stay away from MDF for many reasons, including it eats tools, dust is bad for your health and while math says it's acoustically neutral, it's a "wood string" in practise :wink:



popular is a great wood for making guitar cabs,and is used by a few manufactures


Poplar is an awesome wood and finishes beautifully :D

I use poplar trim on my head designs.

Cheers!

[music 43]

Thank you so much for all the help!

I have no choice for the speakers but celestions because I have a credit at lauzon music and they only sell celestions, hope they're what I'm looking for... I know that I'm going to be making an open back cab, I already have a dr z 2-12 closed back which gives real tight bottom end and is right up there with a marshall 4-12...

So now I have to decide on the wood... which of the woods that you guys mentioned will give me that old fender tone. Like I said in my post, I'll be using a Trinity deluxe head (http://www.trinityamps.com). There's 3 sound clips with the amp on their site, maybe if you guys hear the clips it'll give you a better idea as to which wood would be for me. I think the clips are recorded with a 1-12 tone tubby.

[iaresee]

Dont' quote me on this but I believe old Fenders, like Deluxe Reverbs, were mostly thinner pine with floating baffles. That big, 3D clean sounds is a floating baffle in an open back pine cab.

[Wild Bill]

There's been many, many articles in the trade mags about the mojo of the Fender 4-10 cab!

One story goes that Clapton was given a modern clone to try. He of course had been using an original for years.

They used pine like the original and also the same speakers, which I believe were Oxfords but I could be wrong.

Anyhow, he knew right away which was the modern clone. There was a sonic difference that his ears detected.

They finally figured it out. Modern pine like that sold in Home Depot has a moisture content far higher than that of pine board in the 50's. They just don't want to spend the time on drying kilns today!

Someone dug up some old barn board, ran it through a planer and made another cabinet. Clapton swore it sounded identical to the original!

Might be just another myth but it's obvious moisture content will affect the wood density, changing how it reacts with the tone.

Just FYI.

:food-smiley-004:

[greco]

There's been many, many articles in the trade mags about the mojo of the Fender 4-10 cab!

One story goes that Clapton was given a modern clone to try. He of course had been using an original for years.

They used pine like the original and also the same speakers, which I believe were Oxfords but I could be wrong.

Anyhow, he knew right away which was the modern clone. There was a sonic difference that his ears detected.

They finally figured it out. Modern pine like that sold in Home Depot has a moisture content far higher than that of pine board in the 50's. They just don't want to spend the time on drying kilns today!

Someone dug up some old barn board, ran it through a planer and made another cabinet. Clapton swore it sounded identical to the original!

Might be just another myth but it's obvious moisture content will affect the wood density, changing how it reacts with the tone.

Just FYI.

:food-smiley-004:

Wild Bill...Where do you get all the great info/stories from?
You must have a fantastic memory. Keep 'em coming. Always enjoy reading your posts/threads :wave:

Music 43: Any closer to a decision re: cab design and wood?
There is a local fellow who just tore down a large barn and is selling all the wood ...interested?

Enjoy building the cab.

Dave

[iaresee]

Someone dug up some old barn board, ran it through a planer and made another cabinet. Clapton swore it sounded identical to the original!
I've been dreaming of a 1x12 extension cab made out of some reclaimed barn board. My inlaws have a falling-down-barn I was going to pilfer for some wood. All planed and polished. Man that'd look sweet!

[music 43]

Wild Bill...Where do you get all the great info/stories from?
You must have a fantastic memory. Keep 'em coming. Always enjoy reading your posts/threads :wave:

Music 43: Any closer to a decision re: cab design and wood?
There is a local fellow who just tore down a large barn and is selling all the wood ...interested?

Enjoy building the cab.

Dave

I think I'm leaning towards pine with tweed covering to match the head I'm making for it. Seeing that it's been suggested several times and it's lighter than the birch, that helps. My dr z 2-12 is so heavy, I don't want anything heavier, hopefully with pine it shouldn't be heavier than 60lbs.

What do you think about celestion 10" speakers?

[greco]

I think I'm leaning towards pine with tweed covering to match the head I'm making for it. Seeing that it's been suggested several times and it's lighter than the birch, that helps. My dr z 2-12 is so heavy, I don't want anything heavier, hopefully with pine it shouldn't be heavier than 60lbs.

What do you think about celestion 10" speakers?

I looked up a comparison of weights between MDF and pine on the internet (back when we were designing the cab). The weight of the pine depends on the specie(s) of pine and the moisture content. I gave up at that point.

Pine might not be as light weight as you think it will be...but I still like it. I think my 1x12" cab. weighed about 14 to 18 lbs (without speakers, obviously). I'll get the dimensions for you after (I'm at work) so you can estimate, if you want.

My friend was able to get 3/4" (metric thickness is a shade less) pine in about 20" x 48" pieces at Home Depot. Not many knots and saves a lot of work not having to glue edges to get the 10" width.

I can't help you with speakers. I have heard a lot about Webers, but they are expensive and only available from the USA (IIRC)

Dave

[greco]

I've been dreaming of a 1x12 extension cab made out of some reclaimed barn board. My inlaws have a falling-down-barn I was going to pilfer for some wood. All planed and polished. Man that'd look sweet!

I see a new business adventure here...there has to be a niche market out there.

How big is the barn...LOL

Dave

[music 43]

I looked up a comparison of weights between MDF and pine on the internet (back when we were designing the cab). The weight of the pine depends on the specie(s) of pine and the moisture content. I gave up at that point.

Pine might not be as light weight as you think it will be...but I still like it. I think my 1x12" cab. weighed about 14 to 18 lbs (without speakers, obviously). I'll get the dimensions for you after (I'm at work) so you can estimate, if you want.

My friend was able to get 3/4" (metric thickness is a shade less) pine in about 20" x 48" pieces at Home Depot. Not many knots and saves a lot of work not having to glue edges to get the 10" width.

I can't help you with speakers. I have heard a lot about Webers, but they are expensive and only available from the USA (IIRC)

Dave

Thanks ...

[Geek]

Hi,

I can't help you with speakers. I have heard a lot about Webers, but they are expensive and only available from the USA (IIRC)

Expensive?

Maybe compared to Warehouse Guitar Speakers, but they are on the low side compared to most others.

Yellow Cab on Vancouver Island is an official dealer:
http://www.yellowcabamplification.com/speakers.htm

And I have OEM/resale status, so I can sell them too out of Chilliwack :smile:

Ted ships anywhere from his website and accepts PayPal. That's usually the cheapest way to go....


As for pine sources, Home Despot is total rubbish.... at least the one's I've been to. They are far more expensive and have crappier stuff compared to the pine found local Windsor Plywood, that carries furniture grade stuff. It's all kiln dried too! If you luck out, the odd Rona carries special order stuff for furniture makers, if there's no specific dealer for them in your town.

[music 43]

Hi,



Expensive?

Maybe compared to Warehouse Guitar Speakers, but they are on the low side compared to most others.

Yellow Cab on Vancouver Island is an official dealer:
http://www.yellowcabamplification.com/speakers.htm

And I have OEM/resale status, so I can sell them too out of Chilliwack :smile:

Ted ships anywhere from his website and accepts PayPal. That's usually the cheapest way to go....


As for pine sources, Home Despot is total rubbish.... at least the one's I've been to. They are far more expensive and have crappier stuff compared to the pine found local Windsor Plywood, that carries furniture grade stuff. It's all kiln dried too! If you luck out, the odd Rona carries special order stuff for furniture makers, if there's no specific dealer for them in your town.
Awesome!

I'm going to checkup the wood this weekend.

I posted on TGP and somebody's sending me a plan of the bassman cab, can't wait!

[greco]

Hi,



Expensive?

Maybe compared to Warehouse Guitar Speakers, but they are on the low side compared to most others.

Yellow Cab on Vancouver Island is an official dealer:
http://www.yellowcabamplification.com/speakers.htm

And I have OEM/resale status, so I can sell them too out of Chilliwack :smile:

Ted ships anywhere from his website and accepts PayPal. That's usually the cheapest way to go....


As for pine sources, Home Despot is total rubbish.... at least the one's I've been to. They are far more expensive and have crappier stuff compared to the pine found local Windsor Plywood, that carries furniture grade stuff. It's all kiln dried too! If you luck out, the odd Rona carries special order stuff for furniture makers, if there's no specific dealer for them in your town.

Thanks for the info about Weber speakers. I stand humbly corrected. Nice to know that they can be purchased from Canadian suppliers.

The pine my friend bought might have been from Rona... I'm not sure. But it was dry and quite clear of blems and knots.

Dave

[zdogma]

Thanks!

My girlfriend's dad is building it and he's a machinist at a moulding company so hopefully they'll have router tables or jigs to box the joints. How much heavier will baltic birch be than pine? I think I'm going to cover it in tweed instead of tolex because the amp we're making for it (Trinity amps deluxe kit) is going to be done in tweed as well.

We're not sure if we should make it with the classic bassman dimensions (w:23 1/2", h:22 5/8", d:10 1/2") or the dimensions of the dr z 4 by 10 (24"/24"/10"). What do you guys think?

I like the Z dimensions, its a bit easier to mount the speakers and staple on the grill cloth if you have a bit of wiggle room. As for the depth, just make sure there is enough for your head to sit on top without falling off. Most are 10 inches deep or less so either should be OK. Deeper cabs have more bass response all else being equal.

For speakers, I like alnicos for blues playing, they have a bit less headroom and volume generally and tend to be more compressed. The ceramics are cleaner, less compressed and tighter bottom end. Webers are good, lots of variety there, just ask ted and he'll set you up. You can also find some cool old 10's at the used music places.

Make sure before you buy speakers that you have calculated you cab impedence to work with your head(s).

Use switchcraft jacks if you can find them, they make a nice long barrel jack and shorter ones too.

For hardware, like corners and handles, Weber also sells those.

[Stratin2traynor]

Wild Bill...Where do you get all the great info/stories from?
You must have a fantastic memory. Keep 'em coming. Always enjoy reading your posts/threads :wave:

Music 43: Any closer to a decision re: cab design and wood?
There is a local fellow who just tore down a large barn and is selling all the wood ...interested?

Enjoy building the cab.

Dave

You're not the only one who enjoys his posts...Great story. Love Clapton. Thanks WildBill.

[Stratin2traynor]

Hi,



Expensive?

Maybe compared to Warehouse Guitar Speakers, but they are on the low side compared to most others.

Yellow Cab on Vancouver Island is an official dealer:
http://www.yellowcabamplification.com/speakers.htm

And I have OEM/resale status, so I can sell them too out of Chilliwack :smile:

Ted ships anywhere from his website and accepts PayPal. That's usually the cheapest way to go....


As for pine sources, Home Despot is total rubbish.... at least the one's I've been to. They are far more expensive and have crappier stuff compared to the pine found local Windsor Plywood, that carries furniture grade stuff. It's all kiln dried too! If you luck out, the odd Rona carries special order stuff for furniture makers, if there's no specific dealer for them in your town.

Do you have a store in the Wack?? or do you operate a home-based business?

[zdogma]

[QUOTE=music 43;62390]I think I'm leaning towards pine with tweed covering to match the head I'm making for it. Seeing that it's been suggested several times and it's lighter than the birch, that helps. My dr z 2-12 is so heavy, I don't want anything heavier, hopefully with pine it shouldn't be heavier than 60lbs.

[QUOTE]

God no. It should be 30-40 pounds even with plywood. My 210 is solid oak, with big magnet speakers and is only 35 pounds. An avatar 212 which is plywood is only 49 pounds.

[Geek]

Hi,

Do you have a store in the Wack?? or do you operate a home-based business?

An extremely humble home based operation :wink:

Though I've got some orders coming up that may demand I get commercial shop space. Which I would likely then base that shop in Abbotsford for more central convenience.

[Stratin2traynor]

Very cool. I'm always in need of new toys. When I save up some more cash I'll be in touch. What do you deal in primarily?

[Geek]

How about I PM you so I don't hijack the topic :wink:

[shoretyus]

They finally figured it out. Modern pine like that sold in Home Depot has a moisture content far higher than that of pine board in the 50's. They just don't want to spend the time on drying kilns today!

Someone dug up some old barn board, ran it through a planer and made another cabinet. Clapton swore it sounded identical to the original!



Late to the thread.... BUT it is not likely the kiln process.. Kiln dried wood is for Canada is 6 to 8 % , that has never changed. Though the pine from HD is probably not down that far because it is not sold as furniture grade lumber.

The biggest difference would the tightness of the grain from an older growth tree. Hard to get a tighter grain in a younger tree ( gee the cut all the older ones already )