guitar lessons or no lessons?

[esp_dsp]

hey i have been playing guitar for about 3 years now and im starting to get good well i think im pretty good... i can play pretty much all of crazy train just not the one fill... and i was thinking about taking lessons i know most people take them first or whatever but i never thought there was a point in them i didnt think they would teach me anything i would really want to know.. but anyways if you think its a good idea for me to start taking them could you suggest a place in the hamilton area that has good teachers?

thanks:rockon2:

[Geek]

Go for it!

I'd love to take lessons, but no teacher would put up with me :D

[Renvas]

ya im kinda feeling the same way.. i feel like im not learning much from just reading stuff on the internet..

or rather im starting to get lazy and i need someone to push me..

[violation]

Never took lessons in my life... with all the resources online I really don't see a point. How long I've been playing and what I can play tends to surprise people but it's 'cause I play 6+ hours of structured practice everyday.

Watch John Petrucci's Rock Discipline DVD (by watch I mean download it like me, lol)... hands down the best DVD ever made for improving technique, speed and rhythms. He explains how to make a structured practice routine, you'll be amazed how far you progress after a couple months.

[dwagar]

I'm going to stand up for teachers.

No question, you can always benefit from lessons, IF you are willing to learn and practice.

There is no 'end game' to learning guitar, you will be learning your whole life.

Find a teacher that you can connect to, that will help you with what you are into right now, and you'll be miles ahead.

[Stratin2traynor]

I would recommend lessons to change things up a bit. Unless you have unlimited time to practice and an extremely structured approach, it is well worth the time to take a block of lessons. I took a block of 8 lessons a couple of years ago and it opened a whole bunch of new doors for me. Just started lessons with another guy last week.

I find they get me out of ruts. Plus it's very important to find someone who will teach you what you would like to know as opposed to only what they want to teach you. Hope that helps you out.

[I_cant_play]

I find they get me out of ruts.

I definitely agree with that. I was mostly self taught and took some group lessons to learn basics. Then I just spent a lot of time on the web and learning by myself and even though there is so much information on the web, I didn't feel I was progressing as fast as I'd like to. It's not that I didn't practice, but I just didn't know what to practice. Then I started taking lessons with a really good teacher and I noticed my skills improving significantly after just one week. Just make sure you don't get a teacher that doesn't have a plan and just asks you "what do you want to learn". I would sometimes ask my teacher to teach me something and he'd say that I'm not ready for it yet. I believe that that was the correct approach. However, after a few years with him, the rate of improvement decreased and I left. I've been without a teacher for some time now. I should start taking lessons again soon but I feel I'm not in as much of a rut as I was the first time. Now, that I have the basics and then some, I know what I have to work on and I'm aware of the weaknesses in my playing.

Also, there are some mistakes that I used to make that I really don't know how long it would have taken me to fix had I not started taking lessons. They were big mistakes and it would have been very difficult to fix it by reading about it on the web.

my point is, at least at the beginning, lessons are a very good idea..

[Renvas]

i think im going to take some advice and take lessons for 1 month durring my summer break.

since ive been playing the guitar for about a month and a half now. i preaty much got some scales. and cords down. But when i ask for lessons should i still start as a beginner and start from scratch and have the teacher reteach me cords and scales?

[dwagar]

your teacher should evaluate where you are at and start from there.

[esp_dsp]

hmm well i decided to start taking lessons my dad is really good friends with the drummer of freedom train(very popular cover band in my area) and he also works at L&M so i think im going to go talk to him because he said he could set me up with a good teacher so ill be doing that in the next few weeks should be pretty good :smile:

[I_cant_play]

my advice is, be really picky with your teacher. If you don't feel that after a month your rate of progress is going through the roof, find another teacher. If you feel that he really is good, I'd suggest you stick with him for longer than a month.

then again...I think I've been spoiled by having a really really good teacher that really raised the bar..

[Budda]

getting lessons is the best thing you can do to improve on your instrument, IMHO.

[Paul]

I've rethought my position on this. Go with no lessons. Those of us who take advantage of all the tools available to musicians will happily take the gigs the rest of you aren't able to hack.

[Robert1950]

I recently started taking lessons for the first time. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Paul]

I recently started taking lessons for the first time. I'll let you know how it goes.


Good decision. There are a lot of good guitar teachers out there. Finding the one that is right for you is sometimes difficult. The good ones find a balance between teaching you what you want to know, and teaching you the things you need to know. And keep you interested and excited the whole time.

You spent a lot of time in school learning about spoken and written language. (types of words, sentence structure, paragraph structure, etc.) There are parallels to all of that in music. Many beleive they don't want or need to know anything about music theory or standard notation, but that is the grammer, (as it were), of the language of music.

My prior post in this thread, (which was tongue in cheek), I'm a music education absolutist. The more people learn about all types of music, the better equipped we will all be to understand and appreciate the craft and gift of music. Too much popular music these days is the intellectual equivalent of "See Dick. See Dick run." We need more musicians that are capable of understanding and appreciating music that is at the same level as "The Great Gatsby". As writers tend to want to write the next "Great American Novel", we need more musicians with the tool, drive and inspiration to create/write/perform music aimed at the highest possible standard, instead of the lowest common denominator.

Wouldn't it be great if Oprah added a music club to her book club? Imagine what would happen if she recommended Joey DeFrancesco, or Jake Langely, or Bela Fleck, or anything with the drummer Brian Blade? Oprah has the power to turn gifted musicians into household names. We have enough pop stars, we need artists.

You might be one.... and music lessons will help get you there.

[stratovani]

I'd definitely go with the lessons. Back when I was first learning the guitar there weren't many teachers around and I wasn't rich enough to afford one, so my uncle got me going by showing me a few "cowboy chords". The I started buying songbooks and learning the songs in them and playing along to the records. So when asked I always tell people my first teachers were John, Paul, George, and Ringo! Pretty good teachers to start off with, I might add!

[Kenmac]

I took lessons for a year from a guy in my apartment building back in the late 70's but I went off on my own after that and I have to agree with you stratovani that those 4 guys were great teachers as well. :smile: Also if somebody wants to learn about songwriting I always tell them to just listen to any Beatles album. That'll teach you more than any course.

I'd definitely go with the lessons. Back when I was first learning the guitar there weren't many teachers around and I wasn't rich enough to afford one, so my uncle got me going by showing me a few "cowboy chords". The I started buying songbooks and learning the songs in them and playing along to the records. So when asked I always tell people my first teachers were John, Paul, George, and Ringo! Pretty good teachers to start off with, I might add!

[jane]

I kind of wish I'd taken lessons when I first started... I've had formal training in classical piano and flute but while the theory translates to guitar, it's been much harder teaching myself how to bend, hammer on/pull off, tap, etc etc from videos/descriptions... I would really have liked to watch someone close up.

[Tarbender]

I would love to find a teacher that I can mesh with. I've tried 2 different teachers in the last 18 months but it just didn't gel.

Robert1950 - How did you find your teacher? I'm really stumped. I'm tired of spending money on teachers that are just not panning out. Was it "love" at first sight, did he ask you what you wanted? None of the guys I went to really had any structure to the lessons - sorry thats wrong - they were structured to what they wanted to teach me. HELP!

[Budda]

i guess i'm lucky - there was only one teacher in our town at the time (pretty sure that's still the case...dunno who that would be though :P), and we got along quite well. he tried to show me more advanced stuff that was outside the music that i was listening to at the time, and so of course 5 years later i say to myself "damn, i really should have listened to him instead of practising that sum 41 intro so much" or whatever.

still need to jam with my old teacher before i head off to college, i'm pretty sure it'll be phenomenal.

[felenoral]

I have an instructor at school. Taught me how to read music and a whole lot of theory. I think instructors are great. They prevent you from being just another lazy guitarist and they open your mind up to many different styles.

[cglover]

for CG, yes you do.
For none-CG, it depends.

[Steve P]

If you can't afford lessons, there are many resources to help you along: web sites, youtube, forums, library books, etc.

+1 on studying the Beatles for songwriting -- I just picked up the Revolver songbook and am enjoying it a lot.

But I would strongly recommend lessons -- why painfully re-learn by trial & error what has already been learned by others? Your progress will be so much faster with a good instructor.

Sometimes a single instructor can only take you part way down the path -- that's when it is time to find another instructor who can help you. IMHO I don't think there is ever a time when you cannot benefit from instruction of one kind -- there are always new techniques & musical genres to discover, no matter your age and skill level. It is just a matter of being humble enough to be open to looking at the guitar in different ways.

For myself, I alternate between two instructors: one teaches me hard rock & metal techniques for electric guitar, and the other teaches me acoustic singer/songwriter-ish fingerpicking. I find the contrast of having two instructors really beneficial, and since they know I have another teacher, it keeps them motivated & honest to help me get to where I want to go!

[Lou Cipher]

it's a realy tough call. i would have gone nuts going through stuctured lessons every week for four years, but at the same time, there are times where I wish I did have a teacher that would get me through the rough spots. it would save me months of trying to figure things out on my own. :smile: (PS i'm still looking for a part-time teacher in the GTA if anyone's interested - please see my post) lol

everyone's different; as someone also already alluded to, my teacher(s) would've strangled me long before i learned how to actually play, so in my case, learning on my own was the only way that would've worked.

Louie

[zontar]

If you find a good teacher--go for it.
And nobody is truly self taught--it may not be formal lessons--but you picked up stuff from others--friends, family, watching videos, on-line resources.
So even if you don't go to someone in person, but learn from videos and/or on-line, you still have taken lessons of some sort.

But formal lessons can help get you over th top--but it depends on the teacher.

Cost is also a consideration.

You'd do best to find a teacher from referrals.

I taught a fw yars back--and I had students better than I am, but they had some lack of technique (have to know the rules to break them), attitude, motivation, etc. I helped steer them in those ways. ANd I was smart enough not to unteach anything.

[Budda]

also, jamming is a great way to learn new things! get together with the older guys who've been at it for a while, chances are they will be glad to show you some things they've picked up along the way. and they'll probably have some good gig stories to boot! :P

[david henman]

...i'm sixty, and have been playing guitar for nearly fifty years.

i am planning on taking some lessons, and buying some instructional dvds.

i think i have postponed it long enough.

:smile:

-dh

...one piece of advice: find a private teacher, ideally a player with a long list of accomplishments.

[fraser]

at the beginning i took a few lessons, and was able to take the things i learned there to go ahead on my own. i was taught right off how to learn by ear, and so i did it that way on my own. when later my own students started bringing me tablature, i found it far faster to listen to the tune and pick the guitar parts out anyway.
nowadays, with the internet things are much more available, i been learning to do some country stuff from a few dvds, and theres lots of great things on youtube- there just like a real teacher, but you can rewind, and use them at any time, over and over.

[Warren]

For what it's worth, I've had lessons of different kinds my whole life. I don't do regular ones anymore, but if I like what someone is doing and they teach I'll pay them to show me. Lately I've been looking into Summer Workshops like Berklee, some friends that have gone said you leave with enough material for a year.

I would recommend taking lessons, but really do your research and find a good teacher whose interests are similar to yours. The internet can't replace a really good teacher, but it makes a fine substitute for a crappy one, so my advice would be -- really good teacher, material really interests you , go for it, not so good teacher don't.

[dodgechargerfan]

I'd go for lessons for sure.
When I put my daughter into lessons, the teacher let me sit in the room. I wasn't playing along, but I learned so much.
I found my daighter was not practicing - or even just playing - outside of the time in lessons. So, I stopped taking her. She's lost interest. I think she thought she was going to rock star school.. :P

[Mooh]

The arguments for lessons have been well stated here, but I will emphasize that there is little point in paying for and attending lessons if one doesn't practice. It's not that a general one-off, even one-off weekly tutorial, can't be of benefit to the student, it's that an instructor needs to see and hear the results of that tutorial or lesson in order to proceed to the next. So many folks seem to think they can be the proverbial armchair quarterback type of player and know what they're doing, but it doesn't work that way.

The difference in progress between someone who seriously practices, and someone who doesn't is amazing. The former is a joy to work with, the latter sucks the joy right out of the process for both parties.

Practice. Period.

Peace, Mooh.

[Oldgold54]

Your post about practice is quite right. Depending on the age of the student, under 12 or thereabouts, they will need coaching and ideas about how to set up a practice routine. I have taught for 33 years, and within a few lessons, can sort out the ones that are going to be a joy to have as students or we are going to have the same lesson over and over again. Help new students set small - attainable goals from lesson to lesson. This will help them gain confidence about the process because they will be seeing the results. I have been privilidged to have had some students for 7 years and they have become my best jammin' partners and because of our length together, communication and sharing ideas is quick and painless. My policy is to give the younger student ample time to ingest some of the info, if they show no sign of moving forward after the fourth lesson, I usually have a talk with them and also include the guardian/parent. Sometimes a time out from lessons will motivate a student to apply themselves.

[arloskay]

I've found lessons to be very helpful. I like getting feedback, and it forces me to be more structured and focus more on things like keeping proper time. And a good teacher will keep your interest by throwing new ideas at you...

[Coustfan'01]

Getting lessons definitely helped me a lot . It keeps you from using bad techiques , can save you a lot of time( you don't have to figure everything out yourself) , and can help you open your mind to stuff you wouldn't play otherwise .

That being said , you must get a good teacher . My second teacher wa so bad I canceled my lessons , and quit playing guitar for about 2 weeks(Never did that except that time) . It was really that bad.

[Stereoface]

If you are capable and competent at teaching yourself things, then I wouldn't bother with lessons. It's all about motivation.

[wnpgguy]

I find it more than just motivation. If you are a guitar player that has no other guitar friends or players around (like me), then you will appretiate a knowledgable person to teach you a few things here or there. I think I learn the most when I play with other people, because they know so many things you have not tried yet.

[guitarmusiczone]

Can anyone tell me whats the going rate per lesson nowadays?? (GTA)??...Thanks in advance guys!!:smile:

[Starbuck]

A few years ago I was paying $40 per hour.

[guitarmusiczone]

A few years ago I was paying $40 per hour.

Thanks Starbuck50 !!

any recent rates??

[Paul]

Thanks Starbuck50 !!

any recent rates??

$20.00 per 1/2 hour seems typical. One of the better local guitar schools here in Brantford charge $17.50 per 1/2 hour. It's actually better pay than most club/bar gigs, and you don't have to go out, the customers come to you!!!!

[Starbuck]

Thanks Starbuck50 !!

any recent rates??

Well I pass the music school daily on the way to work, it's about 20 min north of Toronto and they still advertise $60 per month. That's a pretty good deal, it's 1/2 hr per week. The price has actually come down.

[Mooh]

Being somewhat "marketbound" (ie, I have to charge what this rural market will accept), I charge $640/year for 40 half hour lessons or 20 one hour lessons. I consider raising my rates every September, but haven't for a couple of years. With roughly 57 students it's full-time work, but the pay could be better. I might bump them a buck next September.

Peace, Mooh.

[neither-Either]

I definitely agree with that. I was mostly self taught and took some group lessons to learn basics. Then I just spent a lot of time on the web and learning by myself and even though there is so much information on the web, I didn't feel I was progressing as fast as I'd like to. It's not that I didn't practice, but I just didn't know what to practice. Then I started taking lessons with a really good teacher and I noticed my skills improving significantly after just one week. Just make sure you don't get a teacher that doesn't have a plan and just asks you "what do you want to learn". I would sometimes ask my teacher to teach me something and he'd say that I'm not ready for it yet. I believe that that was the correct approach. However, after a few years with him, the rate of improvement decreased and I left. I've been without a teacher for some time now. I should start taking lessons again soon but I feel I'm not in as much of a rut as I was the first time. Now, that I have the basics and then some, I know what I have to work on and I'm aware of the weaknesses in my playing.

Also, there are some mistakes that I used to make that I really don't know how long it would have taken me to fix had I not started taking lessons. They were big mistakes and it would have been very difficult to fix it by reading about it on the web.

my point is, at least at the beginning, lessons are a very good idea..

All of these posts have helped out alot

Especially this one :smile: