loose change...

[david henman]

...has anyone else seen it?

-dh

[ClintonHammond]

... as in the 9/11 conspiracy bullflop??

[Accept2]

Should be called Loose Screws..............

[david henman]

... as in the 9/11 conspiracy bullflop??

...like the roswell folk, they give the government a lot of credit for being able to orchestrate a cover up of this magnitude, when they can't even keep an oral office blow job under wraps.

on the other hand, i read something somewhere about a government that invaded a foreign country on the pretext that there were weapons hidden...uh...somewhere?

what i'm curious about, however, are some of the disturbing questions raised in the movie...

-dh

[nine]

It's a load of conspiracy crap. There are no questions to be brought up from it because it's based on no science, junk science or outlandish theories. And, like all conspiracies, they pick and choose what information they want to use, while throwing out any scientific evidence that refutes their claims.

The guys from Popular Science took them on. I think the videos are on YouTube.

[Accept2]

I love the 9/11 conspiracy nutjobs. They claim that the US government staged it all so that they could invade Iraq. Wouldnt it be alot simpler to stage that Iraq had WMD and they had to invade them? No, it makes so much more sense to do it this way doesnt it? The only question that movie raised for me is how gullable are people that they accept "facts" without looking into those "facts." But then they bought into less believe crap before. The 2000s have been the decade of the "I believe it because I saw a documentary on it, and documentarys never lie." Just ask Al Gore.....................

[nine]

Just ask Al Gore.....................

Ah man, not this shit again. What does that even have to do with this?

As far as moderators go, you're not very moderate, are you?

[Hamm Guitars]

And, like all conspiracies, they pick and choose what information they want to use, while throwing out any scientific evidence that refutes their claims.


I agree, but I will refrane from using my favorite example as it could only spiral down-hill from there.

[nine]

Hamm, we're talking conspiracy theories here, not conflicting science findings polarized by political lines. They're two totally different things.

Here's a conspiracy theory that is comparable to the Loose Change crapfest- people that don't believe man landed on the moon. They trot out mounds and mounds of made up stuff and every time it's scientifically shot down, they just either don't accept it or say that the scientists are in the pocket of Big (insert conspiracy theory here). It's a logic trap.

Ever see that video of Buzz Aldrin punching the crap out of the annoying moon landing conspiracy nut? It's awesome.

[ClintonHammond]

"Buzz Aldrin punching the crap out of the annoying moon landing conspiracy nut"
URL please?!?!?!

[Accept2]

Ah man, not this shit again. What does that even have to do with this?

As far as moderators go, you're not very moderate, are you?

Moderators dont have to be moderate. There is very little difference between Dylan Avery's whackjob theory that Bush is Satan and Al Gore's whackjob theory that Dee Snider is Satan. Of course, now he thinks Bush is Satan too, so now Im confused. Maybe Dee and Bush are the same person?...........

[nine]

It's a beautiful thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQKxAqpjroo

See, that's the thing about calling a tough mother like Aldrin a coward and a liar- he ain't gonna mince words with you. Guy's been to the moon for crying out loud.

[david henman]

...you guys are certainly welcome to your opinions, but are any of you experts on the subject? do you have all the facts at your disposal?

i am constantly amused by folks who ignore the entire scientific community and say "hey, look! its cold out today! therefore global warming is a liberal conspiracy designed to undermine our great capitalist greedfest!"

the intention of this thread was not to divide us into believers vs non-believers or even liberals vs conservatives.

the movie raised some interesting questions. if your "opinion" is that they are bogus questions, that is just swell. have a nice day.

however, if you have real information, i'm intrigued.

-dh

[nine]

Moderators dont have to be moderate.

Hmm, I always thought the word "moderator" came from the word "moderate". Guess I was wrong. Oops. :tongue:

[nine]

...you guys are certainly welcome to your opinions, but are any of you experts on the subject? do you have all the facts at your disposal?

I'm most certainly not. Neither are the yarn-spinning, fantasyland creators of Loose Change.

However, when the guys from Popular Mechanics and other scientists tell me that the LC guys are full of crap, I'm inclined to believe them because they most certainly know what the heck they're talking about. I'll take their side every day of the week.

[Hamm Guitars]

Hi Nine,

That was just backing away from a land mine that I almost dropped on my foot. I almost posted something that some people find extreamly offensive, not because I believe the information one way or the other, but because it has been made clear that simply seeking the truth is unlawful.

When seeking the truth becomes unlawful, you have to start wondering.

[Accept2]

Right after that movie was made, the whole thing was torn apart by people like this..........

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

[nine]

Here's the debate they had:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d0XEHahJ2Q

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Fm3Zc7D8I

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpckijMVe3I

Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEg6XEP-Cig

So David, I dont' think it's out of line in any way for me to think that the Loose Change guys are full of it. I've listened to what they've had to say and I've listened to what real experts have to say and have decided that the Loose Change guys don't know what the heck they're talking about.

[nine]

When seeking the truth becomes unlawful, you have to start wondering.

Although I'm not sure what you're referring to, I'd have to agree with this statement.

However (and this is a HUGE however), when the "truth" is found, people should also make some freakin' effort to accept it. That's where Loose Change and the moon landing nuts fail. It's more like a religion to them than anything else. They just go on faith.

[nine]

Right after that movie was made, the whole thing was torn apart by people like this..........

Sure, but they're all in the pocket of Big.........

Haha.

[david henman]

So David, I dont' think it's out of line in any way for me to think that the Loose Change guys are full of it. I've listened to what they've had to say and I've listened to what real experts have to say and have decided that the Loose Change guys don't know what the heck they're talking about.

...that may very well be. i remain suspicious of all conspiracy theories, including the very popular belief that global warming is a liberal conspiracy theory. this conspiracy theory, incidentally, is espoused by the very people who are exceedingly quick to ridicule conspiracy theories.

-dh

[nine]

the movie raised some interesting questions. if your "opinion" is that they are bogus questions, that is just swell. have a nice day.

My point is that the movie is based on a flawed, fantastical premise to begin with, so the questions raised from it aren't valid. Also, their unwillingness to accept any dissenting scientific proof goes to the heart of their motives. They're not looking for the truth at all.

If I thought that toilets flushed because water fairies started swimming in the back of the tank, don't you think me asking a question about said fairies would be flawed? And especially so if someone lifted the lid on the tank and showed me that there aren't any fairies at all. If I was a toilet fairy conspiracy theorist, then what I'd say next is that the fairies were just out for lunch when I was shown the toilet tank. Or that non-believers can't see them. Or that the person that showed me the tank is in the pocket of Big Toilet Tank and has therefore been compromised.

To me, even if your B.S. meter is broken, these kinds of theories should be viewed skeptically based on common sense alone. Just like chain emails and the story about your friend's cousin's neighbour with the peanut butter and the dog. They're all kind of the same thing- a great piece of fiction that engages people's imaginations. Unfortunately, they're presented as truth and people end up taking them as such.

[nine]

Oh yeah, and I didn't mean you specifically regarding the B.S. meter. Just a "you" meaning people in general.

[nine]

Haven't watched the movie, but the Loose Change guys sure come off as a couple of douchbags in those clips.

Well, when you're going on nothing but hunches, selective evidence and faith like they are you're going to rely a lot on ad hominem attacks ("a Hearst 'yellow journalism' publication..."). It's kind of the aggressive adult version of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalalalalalalalalala".

I find it really funny that they accuse the government of "cherry picking" evidence when in fact that's their M.O.

[Michelle]

............
When seeking the truth becomes unlawful, you have to start wondering.

I'm with you there!

You have to take any news source with a huge grain of salt, and to David's point, the show brings up a lot of questions, questions that need to be addressed, something definitely stinks! Yes, it's slanted, sensationalized, and inaccurate, like Mike Moore, Alex Jones, etc. They need to make a buck too. The mainstream media is no different, best not to watch TV anyway.

This shit will get you down, if it don't, then it will piss you off, best just to listen to music, BUT NOT THAT SATANIC R&R! :eek:

[ClintonHammond]

"welcome to your opinions"
This isn't about opinions... This is about facts. The LC guys are FULL of skite. That's a fact.

"folks who ignore the entire scientific community"
Like the Loose Change idiots????

" the movie raised some interesting questions."
Only if you're a clueless mouth-breather... You're smarter than that, aren't you Dave?

[Jeff Flowerday]

With Mr. Hammond's comments this thread is now closed.

Please no name calling or questioning anyone's intelligence.

[ClintonHammond]

... WHy "Loose Change" is a pant-load.

1. Screw Loose Change
This is the Counter video showing all the inaccurate information in film Loose Change (which is the most popular 9/11 Conspiracy Theory video).

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3214024953129565561&q=Screw+Loose+Change

Articles:

2. Debunking The 9/11 Myths:
PM examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
3. 9/11 Conspiracy Theories: The 9/11 Truth Movement in Perspective
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11.html
4. National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Audio:

4. Podcast: Debunking 9/11 Myths:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/911myths/3705191.html

Skeptical Sunday: 9/11 Conspiracy
http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=2268977

Books:
Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts
http://www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-Myths-Conspiracy-Theories/dp/158816635X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-36446
93-4382468?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179171561&sr=8-2

Websites:

5. Loose Change Guide
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/

6. 9/11 Myths
http://www.911myths.com/

7. Screw Loose Change Blog
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

[Stratocaster]

Not a fan of that documentary either.