College, University

[Devon8822]

Im presently wanting to go to Berklee in Boston (United States), but I want to know my options for Canada. I cant seem to find much on Canadian colleges. I want to the most famous or best couple music schools in Canada, to look into aswell. What are the "big" and known ones for being great schools in Canada? Any recomendations would be good.

Also, I haven't looked into the costs yet, I heard from someone that college/university is cheaper in Canada by far? is this true, that in the US its way more expensive? thanks

[iaresee]

Yes, it's considerably cheaper to go to school in Canada. In the US you're a foreign student so you pay full fare -- no gov't subsidies for you there.

Check:

Humber College's jazz program
U of T's Classical music program

[noobcake]

McGill has a sweet jazz program and Capilano College in Vancouver has a pretty sweet jazz program to, if you're looking into getting in the local music scene.

[kat_]

If I remember correctly you can do a year or two at Humbar College or Grant McEwan College and then transfer that year to Berklee. Other places would have that too. Try Concordia also. Most universities focus on classical and their jazz programs get a bit shafted within the departments, so if you're only interested in jazz then look at the colleges too.

[Devon8822]

sweet thanks, I checked out some of these places, and they just arent as impressive as Berklee. Can someone give me an estimate of what it would cost to go to these colleges/universities, because I can find any numbers anywhere. I want to so how much more expensive the american universities are. thanks

[Robert1950]

http://www.canadian-universities.net/Community-Colleges/Programs/Music_and_Musicianship.html

[jane]

I have a friend @ Humber College... she's a jazz vocalist, and she loves it. I would guess that canadian universities & colleges would be approximately 3k-4k per term.

[Devon8822]

Wow, now im scared. To go to Humber it would cost 4 K.... and to go to berklee it would be 23 K (according to wikipedia, and thats probably the estimate for domestic students). Anybody have any idea what U of T would cost?

[kat_]

Why don't you actually check on the website of each of the schools? On the Berklee website there's a nice PDF that lays out all of the costs. It says 25k per year for fees for international students and estimates another 20k for living expenses. On Humber's website on the page for the Bachelor of Applied Music degree it says "The 2006.2007 fee for this program was - domestic $4,985.74 per two semesters." Go to the UofT website and find their fees page.

[Devon8822]

WOWWAWEWA!!! I dont understand how Berklee could be so expensive... jesus

Im having a tough time finding these tuition fees... cant find the U of T one

[iaresee]

WOWWAWEWA!!! I dont understand how Berklee could be so expensive... jesus

Im having a tough time finding these tuition fees... cant find the U of T one
Fees for the Music Faculty for Fall '06/Winter '07 semesters at U of T are here (http://www.fees.utoronto.ca/session/y07/fees/music/Fees_-_Domestic_Students.htm). $7024.22 (I like how they have it to the cent...hilarious). That doesn't include incidentals like books and stuff. Plan for at least another $2k in materials. I think I paid about $8k for residence (New College) my first year at U of T (way back in '96). It included meals (which were awful). It cost me a more than that to rent with friends and still live near campus (about $12k/year). But that's because we stayed proximate to the University and ate (and drank) well. :tongue:

All notable schools in the US are expensive. They have: a) a massive demand that far out strips the supply so they can charge more or less what they like; and b) far less government subsidisation (actually it's pretty much zero subsidisation for foreign students). It also doesn't help that it's in Boston which is a very expensive place to live. This is not so different from Canada. If you're a foreign student in Canada you're paying $20k+/year to go to school too here. No point in Canadian tax payers subsidising foreign educations.

[kat_]

http://www.berklee.edu/pdf/tuition/expenses_intl.pdf

There's the berklee fee breakdown for international students.

[peter benn]

Most communities have excellent guitar teachers. You can hold down a day job, take a class or two a week, and spend the rest of the time practising.

[bRian]

On the eastcoast there's:
http://www.stfx.ca/
http://www.stfx.ca/academic/music/index.htm
http://ace.acadiau.ca/arts/music/index.html

[Mooh]

Seems to me that a call to the local school board or high school guidance department might get you started. That's where my kids have gone for the information about availability, cost, prerequisites, etc..

Peace, Mooh.

[Devon8822]

thanks, guys this wis helping me a ton, Im gunna show the old man tonight what I have learnt:eek:

My guidance department is ussless as they ussually are, I prefer doing this on my own anyways.

[bRian]

My guidance department is useless as they usually are, I prefer doing this on my own anyways.

Not very far from the truth in this part of the country either.

[Robert1950]

WOWWAWEWA!!! I dont understand how Berklee could be so expensive... jesus

Im having a tough time finding these tuition fees... cant find the U of T one

It's private. I imagined they get tax breaks if they are non-profit, but you must remember that Ontario Colleges and Universities are subsidized. I know in the past it was up to the tune of 80%, might be lower now due to the years under the vile, evil Harris regime and the little done by the liberals to undo it, but lets say you multiply the Humber tuition by 5, you get the Berklee tuition.

[Devon8822]

Can someone help me out with a couple me questions?
Can you transfer from U of T or Mcgill after a year or 2, to Berklee? or is that just for some places?

[iaresee]

Can someone help me out with a couple me questions?
Can you transfer from U of T or Mcgill after a year or 2, to Berklee? or is that just for some places?
You can always transfer. Whether they honour any of your courses is another question. You should call Berkelee and ask. My guess if very few course credits will transfer because it's across country boundaries and schools get weird about "education standards" and such.

[Devon8822]

You can always transfer. Whether they honour any of your courses is another question. You should call Berkelee and ask. My guess if very few course credits will transfer because it's across country boundaries and schools get weird about "education standards" and such.

Thanks man! your helping me out a ton!

Ok, I need to know what careers are available in "musicology". It just a though, as it sound quiet interesting.

Also, what other jobs are there in music... to go along wiht just making and playing it...

Teaching? Do you have get a teaching major to teach it? or can I teach in a university with a performance major? or is there like a 1 year course or somethign I can take so I can teach? something like that?

thanks again

[Jims]

WOWWAWEWA!!! I dont understand how Berklee could be so expensive... jesus

Im having a tough time finding these tuition fees... cant find the U of T one
Well, for starters, berklee is a very speciallized school, and it ALWAYS costs more to got to school out of country (even out of province). Look into what kinds of scholarships you can get as well. Believe me, it's worth every penny.

Since it's this late in the (school) year, I take it you'll be going there in 2008?

[elindso]

$80 grand U.S. and you have a diploma.

To teach at a better University you need Post grad or the PHD level. At communtity colleges and that level a masters might do, but remember there are an awful lot of post grad people out there looking for work.

Not trying to rain on your parade, that's just the way it is.

[kat_]

To teach at a better University you need Post grad or the PHD level. At communtity colleges and that level a masters might do, but remember there are an awful lot of post grad people out there looking for work.
Three or four years ago Memorial University in Nfld advertised two music positions. They received over 300 applications for those two positions.

The people who are teaching at colleges with only masters degrees have usually been there for quite a while. Now most of them have PhDs, although a few still manage with just a masters.

I need to know what careers are available in "musicology". It just a though, as it sound quiet interesting.
The American Musicological Society has a job listings section on their website. It might be members only but if it's public that'll give you some ideas. Basically most people with a degree in musicology end up going back to university and taking a non-music degree. The few that stay to phd level then get to fight for the few tenure track positions that come up. They also write cd notes, concert program notes, and sometimes textbooks, but those don't pay well.

[Devon8822]

mmmm ok, im wondering how many years a PHD is? So... being that, I could get a masters degree in w/e I want like composition or performance or theory..... and than get a PHD on top of that for teaching? So is a PHD basically a course that builds on the master the allows for you to go in a certain direction?

Can anyone tell me something about U of T music vs Mcgill music? which is more famous, which is better in which areas?
This thread is getting long, but its helping me out a ton, thanks for your help guys.

[iaresee]

mmmm ok, im wondering how many years a PHD is? So... being that, I could get a masters degree in w/e I want like composition or performance or theory..... and than get a PHD on top of that for teaching? So is a PHD basically a course that builds on the master the allows for you to go in a certain direction?
Not quite for a PhD. There's a bit of course work but to get a doctorate you have to do something...new. New research, new theories. Break ground. Become an expert in something very, very specific. The only place (I know) where you can just do course work and walk away with a PhD after you've passed X courses is in Britain. Otherwise you have do a thesis and defend it in front of a jury and they decide if you've done something worthwhile. I have friends who have been doing their PhDs for over 5 years now. If you're in a field that's already well researched coming up with something PhD-worthy is really, really tough.

Can anyone tell me something about U of T music vs Mcgill music? which is more famous, which is better in which areas?
This thread is getting long, but its helping me out a ton, thanks for your help guys.
I'm U of T alum (Engineering) so I'm completely and totally biased. McGill is cute. U of T is a school. :wink: I have a friend who did his Masters in Opera Performance at U of T and the professors in the performance part of the faculty were something else.

[Devon8822]

Ok lets get this straight, so if I have my master in say performace... and I want to teach at a university what would I need? A PHD in teaching?

[iaresee]

Ok lets get this straight, so if I have my master in say performace... and I want to teach at a university what would I need? A PHD in teaching?
It depends on who's doing the hiring at the school. It's not like having a degree entitles you to a job. They'll list it in the requirements if they want you to have a very specific degree. And if you don't have that you might still be able to talk your way into an interview.

[drak10687]

Ok lets get this straight, so if I have my master in say performace... and I want to teach at a university what would I need? A PHD in teaching?

uh, no. As stated earlier, a Ph.D is basically something you are "awarded" for showing that you are able to do competent research and bring something new to your field.

Of course the details are different for different "sciences", but my dad, for example, did his Ph.D in "wood science" about "sheer walls". Basically, after researching the subject. He built a bunch of wooden walls (with help) and then tested their durability using hydraulics (simulating an earthquake) to see which building method worked best.

Then afterwards, in order to teach, he did three years in another university, where he was teaching classes, but learning how to teach at the same time, so he wasn't considered a full professor. Many people in pure and applied sciences will also go on to do a post-doc (post-Ph.D) where they do even more research at some University.

I know that in pure and applied sciences its also very common for people to do the different stages of their studies in different universities. I know somebody from Mexico, they did their bac. there, then went to St. Petersburg (Russia) for their masters, and did their Ph.D in Italy, and finally he was doing his post-doc in Quebec...

Anyways, its usually quite a long road to get to your Ph.D, and relatively few make it there, because you never know if you're fit to go that far or not, so it's hard to precisely plan for it, but its always good to keep in mind what you want to do.

PS, sorry for the long post

[kat_]

Ok lets get this straight, so if I have my master in say performace... and I want to teach at a university what would I need? A PHD in teaching?

Google the music faculties of various colleges and universities and see what their guitar teachers have. Usually their teachers of specific instruments just have a masters and a lot of experience, especially at colleges. If you were to do your masters and then win something like the Northwest Guitar Competition, and tour and record, then you could probably get hired to teach guitar at a university. You would just be a sessional instructor though, not a full time prof, so you wouldn't be getting full time pay or benefits and you'd still have to do private teaching and gigging on the side.

Take a look at the University of Calgary as an example. Three years ago they closed their guitar program, partly as a way of getting rid of their old guitar teacher. Now they're restarting the program with a new teacher who has a masters in performance, years of experience performing internationally and teaching at the college level, and also has a PhD in musicology so he can teach some of the university's music history courses instead of only teaching guitar. A lot of schools want staff who can do a couple of different things, instead of just having a bunch of part timers teaching single instruments.

Don't worry too much about PhDs at this point though. Focus on the next four years, do well at everything you study, keep the phd in the back of your head, and once you finish you're first degree you'll have a better idea of what's available and which way you want to go.

[iaresee]

Don't worry too much about PhDs at this point though. Focus on the next four years, do well at everything you study, keep the phd in the back of your head, and once you finish you're first degree you'll have a better idea of what's available and which way you want to go.
+1! This is great advice: do well at your next degree and no door is closed to you when you're done. You can go work or you can move on to a higher degree.

[MetallicaRHCP]

I heard Montreal's Vanier College has some pretty good music programs.

[Devon8822]

Ok, thats what I'll do. I emailed Berklee about info on transfering from a Canadian University, a couple days ago, so they should get back to me soon.
If I do choose to transfer over, I have narrowed it down to 3 colleges/universities... U of T, Mcgill, and Humber College. I cant tell really which one I should have at the top of my list, unless mybe I talk to some people that have been to any of them. Anyways, If anyone can tell me anythign about these places, or why one is better than another for w/e reason, that would help me. thanks again, for all your help everyone

[iaresee]

Ok, thats what I'll do. I emailed Berklee about info on transfering from a Canadian University, a couple days ago, so they should get back to me soon.
If I do choose to transfer over, I have narrowed it down to 3 colleges/universities... U of T, Mcgill, and Humber College. I cant tell really which one I should have at the top of my list, unless mybe I talk to some people that have been to any of them. Anyways, If anyone can tell me anythign about these places, or why one is better than another for w/e reason, that would help me. thanks again, for all your help everyone

If you call all three of those schools they'll set up a faculty and campus tour for you. Show you around and such. They want your money as much as you want their knowledge and the piece of paper. I'm biased but: U of T trumps them all. :)

[Mooh]

Agreed that U of T and Humber are likely your best choices, but a friend has recently been very impressed with UWO (London), not sure why. I assume you qualify?

Peace, Mooh.

[Devon8822]

Ok, it sounds like you all love U of T, lol. But why? What do you like so much about it? Im going to get some tours, but I dont know about going all the way to mcgill for a tour, I might just have too though.

[kat_]

I have a few friends who have gone to UofT. One did his masters there in composition, then went to the states for a phd, and now is starting to find a fair bit of success as a composer. Another did a masters there in composition, burned out and hasn't composed since. Another did a masters there in piano performance, burned out and teaches piano but doesn't compete or perform anymore. Another did a masters in oboe performance and still performs occaisionally but has a non-music day job.

Make sure you apply at a few different places. Just because you want to go to one school doesn't mean you'll get in there.

[iaresee]

Ok, it sounds like you all love U of T, lol. But why? What do you like so much about it? Im going to get some tours, but I dont know about going all the way to mcgill for a tour, I might just have too though.

I'm U of T alumni. Engineering Skule(tm) 0T0. Like I said: I'm biased.

[-TJ-]

First off,

I am not sure about all the various programs, but for some you have to audition to get in... so simply deciding you want to attend a place is no guarantee of acceptance. Secondly, the place of undergraduate study is not nearly that important, and the quality of education will be good no matter what big name school you go to. Dont plan for a PHD now because its too far into the future. To be accepted into a PHD program, you must do quite well in your undergrad, its not simply a matter of you wanting it. So take it one step at a time.

Why do people prefer U of T? U of T is a very highly regarded school, however for most things its no better than most of Canada's other big universities.... U of T just happens to be bigger and has more Nobel Prize winners associated with it, and that drives up its ranking. Toronto is also the most expensive city in Canada to live in, so you must factor that in.

Call up the universities you are interested in, and ask them to send you brochures telling you about their various programs. The quality of education at Berklee will be no better, but you may meet more famous people, is that worth $45 000 per year to you? If so, go for it. Canadian universities are excellent, and Canadian graduates are very well regarded all over the world, so dont be dazzled by big american names, when what may be best for you is probably right at home.

[Mooh]

TJ...I suggested UofT because the orignal poster's location was listed as Toronto, and it's a decent school, and several of my family members are graduates, and isn't Toronto the centre of the universe? (Notice I don't live there, LOL.)

Peace, Mooh.