Another Freak Kills 32 in Virginia

[GuitarsCanada]

Some freak went wild at Virginia Tech this morning and killed 32 students before blowing his own brains off.

Virginia has a concealed handgun law which allows for anyone over the age of 21 to carry a concealed weapon. This maniac went in with two 9mm auto's and a shit load of ammo. Went wild.

[Hamm Guitars]

Remember the good ol' days when you got stepped out of line the worst that would happen was that someone might just beat the shit out of you?

I can't see that ever happening again as long as people are carrying guns.

Guns mess with the natural order of things.

[rippinglickfest]

Just goes to show you the Yanks and their "right to bear arms" isnt always a good thing. They have to pass some firearm legislation as half of their population has a major screw loose. I have a buddy in the U.S Navy who says the gun problem in the states is a lot bigger than what we see. A lot of it doesnt make the news.

[Tarl]

The scary thing to me is that Canada is heading in the same direction with the handgun violence. We are becoming more like the states at a fast pace. It seems alot of young folks just see handguns as a cool thing to have and show off to their friends. The connection with what these things really do seems to be getting lost to these kids.

[Coustfan'01]

Remember the good ol' days when you got stepped out of line the worst that would happen was that someone might just beat the shit out of you?

I can't see that ever happening again as long as people are carrying guns.

Guns mess with the natural order of things.

Even without guns , that doesn't work anymore..Stupid gang mentality . You beat a guy , he comes back with his gang . If you get in a fight and get your ass handed to you , that's your problem , and you shouldn't try to get back at the guy . It seems like even just 10 years ago "fair fights " still existed , or maybe I'm just idealising my childhood .

[GuitaristZ]

maybe we all should start carrying one of these around:

http://www.2bloggadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/gun_guitar.jpg

you can play amazing solos and still have personal firearm protection at your disposal hahahaha!!!!!


I think schools should have security which carry these:

http://world.guns.ru/smg/fn_p90_3.jpg

[Bevo]

Wonder what the guys reason is for this, lets just hope it does not come back to the music he had on his IPOD.

Do you think this if more of a North American thing? Can't seem to remeber this happening in France, Italy, Portugal, Germany or wherever. Maybe its a hidden fact that is hidden from us or I just never heard....Just thinking out loud

Bev

[jcayer]

That's another very sad story...

Here in Montreal, we had Dawson college last fall... The daughter of a good friend was in a room just beside where the shooting happened. She is still having problems sleeping and to be alone in their home...

very sad...

[rippinglickfest]

Wonder what the guys reason is for this, lets just hope it does not come back to the music he had on his IPOD.

Do you think this if more of a North American thing? Can't seem to remeber this happening in France, Italy, Portugal, Germany or wherever. Maybe its a hidden fact that is hidden from us or I just never heard....Just thinking out loud

Bev
Its because of a desensitivity to violence. Its all around us.........just take a look at video games, television, sports, world politics or lack thereof, terrorism............ and yes SOME MUSIC, the list goes on. Violence sells and this guy wanted his 15 minutes albeit a very twisted version.

[Gilliangirl]

The scary thing to me is that Canada is heading in the same direction with the handgun violence. We are becoming more like the states at a fast pace. It seems alot of young folks just see handguns as a cool thing to have and show off to their friends. The connection with what these things really do seems to be getting lost to these kids.
That's what I am afraid of, too. I hate guns.

[Marnacious]

Some freak went wild at Virginia Tech this morning and killed 32 students before blowing his own brains off.

Virginia has a concealed handgun law which allows for anyone over the age of 21 to carry a concealed weapon. This maniac went in with two 9mm auto's and a shit load of ammo. Went wild.

A new record, for the next lunatic to shoot for, no pun intended. What a complete shame and waste of life.

[noobcake]

Am I the only one to think that the school administrators and various other people in charge of the safety of the students' did a crap job? According to the ctv website, prior to the shooting, a man and woman were killed in the dorms on campus. I mean 2 people killed on campus? That's a pretty big deal if you ask me... Instead they just called the cops and kinda moved on like it wasn't much of a deal, apparently most students didn't even know about all this. And as you all know there was 2 separate shootings today, both of them roughly 2 or so hours apart from each other. A student who was interviewed after all this, said that he only knew about the first shooting rougly 2 hours after it happened, which means he pretty much knew about the first shooting when the second one was taking place... After the first shooting, the school sent out emails to all students, to notify them of the shootings and to tell them to be cautious... Yep...that's right, after the first shooting, they didn't even do a lockdown or anything, instead...they sent emails... And that's not all, here's a little quote from the ctv website: Police said there had been bomb threats on the Virginia Tech campus over the past two weeks but authorities said they have not determined a link to Monday's shootings. Wow...from the sounds of it...students were risking their lives every day just by showing up at school... What a pity... I'm sure that there would have been much less casualties if the people in charge took proper action when this whole mess started...

[Marnacious]

On the CNN website they are saying now they are not even sure that the same person did both shootings, which were about 2 hours apart.

Two hours between incidents

Two people were killed in a separate incident at a dormitory on the campus about two hours earlier, around 7:15 a.m. University police Chief Wendell Flinchum said police were still investigating whether the two incidents are related.
At a news conference Monday afternoon, Flinchum did not rule out a separate shooter for the dormitory incident

[Accept2]

When people blame guns for this kind of thing, its not going to help. Its the society that America has created for itself that is the problem. Its a society that spends billions on a war in the middle east and leaves New Orleans in ruins long after its destroyed. In Switzerland every adult owns at least one gun, but things like this never happen. It would be nice if the rest of the world looked at how the Swiss society operated so that we can do the same. This is the difference generated when a country makes military service mandatory, legalizes drugs to rid themselves of gangs, closes its borders to those it doesnt need, makes education a priority, the list goes on and on............

[rippinglickfest]

When people blame guns for this kind of thing, its not going to help. Its the society that America has created for itself that is the problem. Its a society that spends billions on a war in the middle east and leaves New Orleans in ruins long after its destroyed. In Switzerland every adult owns at least one gun, but things like this never happen. It would be nice if the rest of the world looked at how the Swiss society operated so that we can do the same. This is the difference generated when a country makes military service mandatory, legalizes drugs to rid themselves of gangs, closes its borders to those it doesnt need, makes education a priority, the list goes on and on............
I agree with what the Swiss have done with their country.........but we are too hooked on our freedoms and rights about a lot of things over here to follow that avenue. We'd have everybody screaming discrimination this and lawsuit that.
We could learn a thing or two from them.........but we wont.

[david henman]

...how many more children will have to die like this before american conservative nra types finally get it?

they thrive on a culture of violence in a state of denial. everything is war: the war on terror, the war on drugs. guns and bombs are cited in their national anthem. and everyone who does not subscribe to "mainstream values" is seen as an enemy.

as toronto talk show host mike stafford wrote in his blog yesterday: "the first amendment is open to interpretation, but the second amendment is written in stone". the shooter was a poster boy for the nra and american gun culture. they probably even had to pry his gun from his "cold, dead hands".

and yet, if i log onto the american discussion forums today, i'll see a bunch of the aforementioned conservative gun advocates passionately and self-righteously defending their obsession with guns and even suggesting that, had the students and/or professors been armed, it wouldn't have been as bad...

here's what gun advocates and those who oppose strict gun control don't get:

first, an analogy. have you ever seen those "musician wanted ads that end by stating "no jerks, egomaniacs or a-holes, please!" you know, like a guy is going to read that and think "damn! that's me!"

its the same with gun advocates and those who oppose strict gun control and bans on ownership. they keep saying the same thing: we should allow only the "good guys" to own guns, and make sure they don't fall into the hands of the "bad guys".

think for a minute. how many bad guys do you know that actually see themselves as "bad guys"?

i realize that this isn't ONLY about guns. its also about a so-called civilized culture that tolerates and even encourages violence, a culture that has a seriously screwed up definition of "masculinity" and a morbid fear of something they call "the feminization of western civilization". a culture that labels people with compassion as "do-gooders" and people who oppose war as "peaceniks".

on the other hand, i'll see the royalties i receive for a song i wrote in 1970 called "drop your guns" take a serious upward spike over the next few months, just as they did in the aftermath of columbine, 9-11 and the invasion of iraq.

i can use the money, no doubt, but there's no joy in it.

-dh

[Gilliangirl]

...how many more children will have to die like this before american conservative nra types finally get it?

they thrive on a culture of violence in a state of denial. everything is war: the war on terror, the war on drugs. guns and bombs are cited in their national anthem. and everyone who does not subscribe to "mainstream values" is seen as an enemy.

as toronto talk show host mike stafford wrote in his blog yesterday: "the first amendment is open to interpretation, but the second amendment is written in stone". the shooter was a poster boy for the nra and american gun culture. they probably even had to pry his gun from his "cold, dead hands".

and yet, if i log onto the american discussion forums today, i'll see a bunch of the aforementioned conservative gun advocates passionately and self-righteously defending their obsession with guns and even suggesting that, had the students and/or professors been armed, it wouldn't have been as bad...

here's what gun advocates and those who oppose strict gun control don't get:

first, an analogy. have you ever seen those "musician wanted ads that end by stating "no jerks, egomaniacs or a-holes, please!" you know, like a guy is going to read that and think "damn! that's me!"

its the same with gun advocates and those who oppose strict gun control and bans on ownership. they keep saying the same thing: we should allow only the "good guys" to own guns, and make sure they don't fall into the hands of the "bad guys".

think for a minute. how many bad guys do you know that actually see themselves as "bad guys"?

i realize that this isn't ONLY about guns. its also about a so-called civilized culture that tolerates and even encourages violence, a culture that has a seriously screwed up definition of "masculinity" and a morbid fear of something they call "the feminization of western civilization". a culture that labels people with compassion as "do-gooders" and people who oppose war as "peaceniks".

on the other hand, i'll see the royalties i receive for a song i wrote in 1970 called "drop your guns" take a serious upward spike over the next few months, just as they did in the aftermath of columbine, 9-11 and the invasion of iraq.

i can use the money, no doubt, but there's no joy in it.

-dh

I must agree. I've been strongly criticized for my stance on gun control, but I don't care. Here's the bottom line for me....
It's impossible to proactively legislate against 'the stupid and the mad' (that is, the people who commit these horrible atrocities). Therefore, you must legislate against the tools that 'the stupid and the mad' use to conduct their crime sprees. We need to be proactive to prevent this type of thing, not reactive once it's already happened. The gun lobbyists are all over this thing now, claiming that if everyone had a gun, the death rate would be lower. How about this..... if the killer didn't have a gun in the first place, the death rate would be zero.

When the rights of the individual (to own guns) supercede the rights of society as a whole to safety, you're going to have trouble.

Go ahead and shoot me, but that's my stance on it.

[rippinglickfest]

The gun lobbyist point of view reminds me of Archie Bunkers solution to ending skyjackings........"Arm all your passengers". Its going to be a long, long process to change this train of thought.

[david henman]

I must agree. I've been strongly criticized for my stance on gun control, but I don't care. Here's the bottom line for me....
It's impossible to proactively legislate against 'the stupid and the mad' (that is, the people who commit these horrible atrocities). Therefore, you must legislate against the tools that 'the stupid and the mad' use to conduct their crime sprees. We need to be proactive to prevent this type of thing, not reactive once it's already happened. The gun lobbyists are all over this thing now, claiming that if everyone had a gun, the death rate would be lower. How about this..... if the killer didn't have a gun in the first place, the death rate would be zero.
When the rights of the individual (to own guns) supercede the rights of society as a whole to safety, you're going to have trouble.
Go ahead and shoot me, but that's my stance on it.

...its really no different than things like speed limits, which apply to everyone, not just so-called bad drivers.

its the psychology of this that gun advocates fail to acknowledge, much less grasp.

-dh

[david henman]

The gun lobbyist point of view reminds me of Archie Bunkers solution to ending skyjackings........"Arm all your passengers". Its going to be a long, long process to change this train of thought.


...i still hear this kind of rhetoric advanced by gun advocates.

and, already, i'm hearing that this is a "gun free" campus, and that nra types jumping all over that.

-dh

[Gilliangirl]

I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm logged onto this thread, the ad at the top of the page is for some organization called Front Sight..... something about learning how to be as good at guns as a SWAT team member. How ironic.:eek:
Here it is....
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/Gilliangirl/CAY2YK71.gif

[GuitarsCanada]

Thats google for you. The old spider will pick up on the subject matter and, bingo. There are ways of blocking them out, takes a little time though.

[GuitarsCanada]

Have you listened to some of the vidoes this misguided, sad, sick, perverted murdering mongrel had to say? Gun laws???? this guy was on the brink of meltdown for many years, he was going to do something at some point. It was only a matter of time.

It is clear he should never have been able to purchase a gun in the first place, and that itself is a major issue and needs to be addressed. But one way or the other, this guy was going to take someone out at some point in his life.

It is actually pretty sad that someone with this kind of mental condition, being witnessed by so many over the years was not provided the help he clearly needed. So the question begs.... who is really to blame for this?

[rippinglickfest]

Have you listened to some of the vidoes this misguided, sad, sick, perverted murdering mongrel had to say? Gun laws???? this guy was on the brink of meltdown for many years, he was going to do something at some point. It was only a matter of time.

It is clear he should never have been able to purchase a gun in the first place, and that itself is a major issue and needs to be addressed. But one way or the other, this guy was going to take someone out at some point in his life.

It is actually pretty sad that someone with this kind of mental condition, being witnessed by so many over the years was not provided the help he clearly needed. So the question begs.... who is really to blame for this?
Guns are a major part of the problem,......... if a guy like this has access to them, the criteria for acquiring them are at least in that state beyond lax.
But I guess the school itself has to shoulder some of the responsibility knowing (Campus Police) he had stalked a couple of female students in 2005 and his English profs knew the content of his essays was disturbing, even to the point that they recommended he seek help for his glaringly obvious mental issues. The sad thing is this could have been prevented had the gunman been given the help he needed but nobody followed up. Its beyond me why they let him remain a student there when he was handing in these crazy ass papers.

[rippinglickfest]

I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm logged onto this thread, the ad at the top of the page is for some organization called Front Sight..... something about learning how to be as good at guns as a SWAT team member. How ironic.:eek:
Here it is....
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/Gilliangirl/CAY2YK71.gif
Ads like this is why I think America is the most decadent society in the world........its all about money, even if its morally reprehensible. Watch, some parasite will find a way to make money off of the Virginia Tech tragedy as was the case with 9/11...... Commemorative coins and a movie about it.........c'mon. Sometimes I am so disgusted by the way SOME americans operate. And then they scratch their heads and wonder why most of the world hates them.

[david henman]

Have you listened to some of the vidoes this misguided, sad, sick, perverted murdering mongrel had to say? Gun laws???? this guy was on the brink of meltdown for many years, he was going to do something at some point. It was only a matter of time.
It is clear he should never have been able to purchase a gun in the first place, and that itself is a major issue and needs to be addressed. But one way or the other, this guy was going to take someone out at some point in his life.
It is actually pretty sad that someone with this kind of mental condition, being witnessed by so many over the years was not provided the help he clearly needed. So the question begs.... who is really to blame for this?

....i think al gore said it best with his "salad" analogy.

you cannot brainwash people into eating junk food and then ask "how did you get so fat?"

you cannot brainwash people into buying faster and faster cars with more powerful engines capable of going stupidly fast and then ask "why is there so much carnage on our highways?"

and you cannot create a culture that endorses violence and creates a religion based on guns and then ask "why are so many people being killed?"

annually:

number of gun deaths in america = 10,000

number of gun deaths in canada = 200

-dh

[mick7]

Have you listened to some of the vidoes this misguided, sad, sick, perverted murdering mongrel had to say? Gun laws???? this guy was on the brink of meltdown for many years, he was going to do something at some point. It was only a matter of time.

It is clear he should never have been able to purchase a gun in the first place, and that itself is a major issue and needs to be addressed. But one way or the other, this guy was going to take someone out at some point in his life.

It is actually pretty sad that someone with this kind of mental condition, being witnessed by so many over the years was not provided the help he clearly needed. So the question begs.... who is really to blame for this?
I heard from some place this guy took some sort of mental test, and failed. So this isn't really music's, video games or even tv's fault, its everyone that knew that guy was a nut but did nothing to help it. They should've known this guy was crazy. The story the boy wrote for his english assignment is pretty...'crazy' too.

[Accept2]

In the US society, you cant just take someone off the street because theyre crazy. Not even here, can you do that. Lawyers have ensured that the most important thing in this world is their fees, and they will sue for anything just to make a buck. Safety is irrelevant............

[Wild Bill]

Ads like this is why I think America is the most decadent society in the world........its all about money, even if its morally reprehensible. Watch, some parasite will find a way to make money off of the Virginia Tech tragedy as was the case with 9/11...... Commemorative coins and a movie about it.........c'mon. Sometimes I am so disgusted by the way SOME americans operate. And then they scratch their heads and wonder why most of the world hates them.

Yeah, they have some flaws. Still, are we so much superior?

Didn't take Karla Homolka long to do some quick time, be back on the street and have a baby. If she and her husband had done their crimes in America they'd have ended up "...six feet under, pushing up wheat for the hungry!"

Every few years Clifford Olsen gets a parole hearing, forcing the families of his victims to attend to make sure he doesn't somehow BS his way out. They're forced to relive their pain over and over and over to preserve the "rights" of the monster who slew their children.

I'm not defending the Americans, by any means. I just feel that before we jump on some moral high horse we should take a long hard look at ourselves...

[Wild Bill]

In the US society, you cant just take someone off the street because theyre crazy. Not even here, can you do that. Lawyers have ensured that the most important thing in this world is their fees, and they will sue for anything just to make a buck. Safety is irrelevant............

I still vividly remember when here in Ontario Bob Rae's government "freed the crazies." By this I mean passing legislation that allowed mentally incompetent people to refuse treatment and leave hospitals to live anywhere, usually the streets.

The justification was that somehow even though they were incapable of making choices they still had the right to do so and therefore society had no right to put them in institutions.

So they pretty much all hit the streets, with all the attendant problems involved.

One thing that never gets mentioned is how the government saved zillions by no longer having to fund hospitals and care for these people. Succeeding governments have found the situation financially advantageous in their eyes and have never proposed returning to the days when someone raising snakes under their hat would be put in a hospital no matter what loopy choice they demanded, to receive proper care.

We had a case here in Hamilton a few years ago with a mother mourning for her son. He had serious psychiatric issues but always refused hospitals or to stay on his meds. The mother had pleaded for years with the authorities but to no avail. Finally her son had a bad episode where he provoked a criminal confrontation with the police and ended up shot dead.

It's a truly sad situation, with no signs of being addressed in the immediate future at all...

[rippinglickfest]

Yeah, they have some flaws. Still, are we so much superior?

Didn't take Karla Homolka long to do some quick time, be back on the street and have a baby. If she and her husband had done their crimes in America they'd have ended up "...six feet under, pushing up wheat for the hungry!"

Every few years Clifford Olsen gets a parole hearing, forcing the families of his victims to attend to make sure he doesn't somehow BS his way out. They're forced to relive their pain over and over and over to preserve the "rights" of the monster who slew their children.

I'm not defending the Americans, by any means. I just feel that before we jump on some moral high horse we should take a long hard look at ourselves...
Dont get me wrong...........we Canadians have our share of problems too.
The west in general has become way too Liberal about a lot of things but in the U.S ........Lets put it this way....."Only in America".... has become a negative connotation........a contradiction really. We are way more conservative when it comes to gun laws though, they have freedom alright, to the point that its regressing back to the old west and everybody is packing. THis Virginia Tech incident is just the tip of the iceberg.

[david henman]

I heard from some place this guy took some sort of mental test, and failed. So this isn't really music's, video games or even tv's fault, its everyone that knew that guy was a nut but did nothing to help it. They should've known this guy was crazy. The story the boy wrote for his english assignment is pretty...'crazy' too.

...surprise, surprise. the boogeyman was bullied as a child at school.

-dh

[Gilliangirl]

Yeah, I think the problem is multi-faceted. I think we need to ensure that troubled people don't fall through the cracks. It seems to me that we all complain when our taxes are so high for all the social programs that we have in Canada (I complain too) but without those social programs, we'd have many more problems. So, you either pay up front with tax dollars and hopefully have a proactive approach to preventing social problems, or you pay in the end, usually with some tragedy. And, we need gun control. Like I said, I've been severely criticized for saying that, but I don't care. I want to live in a safe environment. It totally freaks me out to think that the people walking around me are packing guns. That's just wrong. I don't want to live in a society where I have to own a gun and go to target practice just to defend myself. No thanks. And if Canada ever becomes that way, I'll be a'movin'!!

[Lester B. Flat]

If this guy had walked into a building full of people in 1776 brandishing a weapon he might have been able to kill 1 or 2 people at most before he was brought down. What were "arms" then and what are "arms" now bear no resemblance to one another. If the U.S. founding fathers could have seen 200 years into the future, the right to bear arms would likely not have made it into the constitution. Their original intention was to be able to defend against attacks by the British when they were a mostly rural young nation with no organized military. 21st century technology and an 18th century constitutional right are not jiving very well together and they are in denial of that fact.

[Accept2]

The right to bear arms is an important right, but it didnt mean you can collect Uzis and walk around with them. The passage is in clear reference of a well armed militia. The US has many well armed militias. The funny thing is the government tries to make these guys look bad, but in reality they arent the ones that are causing any problems because they assemble to be trained as a militia if they are ever needed. Im not sure why people cant read that passage and not see what it is really about................

[GuitarsCanada]

The other part of this whole thing is the way the media (and people) handle these things. If you look at news today, and all these news programs. It is essentially one bad thing after the other. Murders and death in general command the airwaves. Tons of these reality shows that focus on death and police work. Apparently a lot of people must love it because there is an endless amount of it to choose from. A day or so after NBC released those video tapes of this rambling maniac they came under fire for doing it. I agree. These nuts do this for a purpose and the news media falls for it everytime. Five years from now you wont be able to picture any of the victims, or remember any of the names, but we will make this guy a twisted celebrity and post his picture and words everywhere. I can understand showing his pic and giving you his background and such, but no real need to play his video in loops for 3 days straight.