Real downside of starter/budget guitars??

[MXDAD]

Hi all. I’m in the market for an inexpensive acoustic to learn on. I have no plans to become a professional just hack and bash around a campfire occasionally and possibly in the future “plug in” with my kids. A young guitarist and drummer.

I have read here and other places the real value in the Canadian “godin” family of acoustics. One of these with a pickup would be my choice but I have recently annihilated the family budget on new drums and cymbals for my oldest.

Considering this and the fact that I would like to begin learning sooner than later I need a really really cheap guitar.
I have noticed inexpensive Yamahas in the music store at about 150 or a little more.

What is the real downside to one at this price point?
Lack of sound?
Lack of Features?
Poor construction?
Poor Materials?

I guess I’d go into this knowing if I do get into it I’d have to “upgrade” in the future but would a guitar of level hold me back in some way?

Thanks for any help

[Chito]

Those are not bad at all for "beginner" guitars. Try the Ottawa Folklore Centre. They should be able to help you with choosing what's best for you.

BTW Just noticed your from Ottawa too. :) Welcome!

[Jeff Flowerday]

As the long as the guitar can be setup decently it should be fine. Learning on a crappy setup only makes learning that much harder.

.02

[david henman]

...the art & lutherie acoustics, priced at around $239, are incredible value, with no compromise on sound, playability or build quality.

-dh

[MXDAD]

Thanks for the welcome guys.
I’ll try the Ottawa Folklore Center as well thanks.

I have read great things about the A&L line but this would push out a purchase as I would have to skim small amounts out of the budget.


Where can I read about setups as Jeff mentioned?
What is there to set up? Gezzz I have much to learn! Can you tell I know nothing at this point! :-)

Any recommendations on books to pick up or online sights that could help get me learning some chords and very very basic songs?

I’m not minimizing traditional lessons but looking really to try this on my own for now.

Thanks for your help so far!

[Rumble_b]

...the art & lutherie acoustics, priced at around $239, are incredible value, with no compromise on sound, playability or build quality.

-dh

I gotta go with David on this. I have a A&L and I still can't belive how little it costs. I would try to hold off till you got a bit more coin and get one.

[PaulS]

...the art & lutherie acoustics, priced at around $239, are incredible value, with no compromise on sound, playability or build quality.

-dh


Yep I agree with Dave on these ones, I have played several of them in shops and they all play and feel good. Excellent value for the price.

[MXDAD]

I’m beginning to see a common thread here…. :-)
All right, All right I give!
I had better have a real good look at these.

Any comments on these questions?

Where can I read about setups as Jeff mentioned?
What is there to set up? Gezzz I have much to learn! Can you tell I know nothing at this point! :-)

Any recommendations on books to pick up or online sights that could help get me learning some chords and very very basic songs?

[ronmac]

Playability can make all the difference, especially at the beggining stage. The dealer should be able to help you get a setup that makes the guitar feel good for you.

If you want to learn more about anything related to acoustic guitar setup and repair, this is the place to go: www.frets.com

Good luck on your quest.

[BR183]

Certainly check out the OFC but I would also recommend going to see Dan at Metro Music on Bank street. She sells nothing but the full like of Seagull and Art & Lutherie guitars, tons of models to choose from. Great selection, great prices and she is great to deal with and backs her instruments 100% and will make sure the guitar is properly set up before it leaves the store. Mention that Stewart sent you. A smaller shop with great service!!

[PaulS]

The smaller shops tend to give better service and stand behind there products. It's there way of competing with the big boys.

[MXDAD]

Got a quick question. Is the string spacing the same on all guitars?
I played a friends cheaper Yamaha tonight and there are a few chords that my fat fingers span or touch the next string.

Can I get one with lagers spacing?

[Mahogany Martin]

MXDAD, you have to consider that if you go for a wider neck that it'll require a little extra stretching to reach the lower strings (the bigger strings). You need to get yourself a decent guitar that you're going to like in the first place (you like the feel, the look and most importantly, the sound). For a little more than what you want to spend, the Art & Lutherie models mentionned in previous posts are certainly something to look into.

As you learn chords, finger exercises etc and as you get to practice on a more regular basis, the *fat fingers* won't be an issue anymore.

Martin

[Mahogany Martin]

I have noticed inexpensive Yamahas in the music store at about 150 or a little more.

What is the real downside to one at this price point?
Lack of sound?
Lack of Features?
Poor construction?
Poor Materials?



If one of these Yamahas feels and sounds good to you and that they obviously got your attention, then that'd be a good way to get started.

Affordale guitars are often made up of laminated wood which *can* affect sound projection and things like that but where you'll really hear a difference is in the sustain. And there are some guitars in the 300 or 400 price range for instance that are made up of laminated wood and sound really nice. As in pretty much everything else, you get what you pay for.

Edit: there are laminated sides with solid tops and there are laminated tops as well. Here an example of a laminated top:

http://www.normanguitars.com/modelb15.htm

Some reviews of that particular model:

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Norman/B15/10/1

You might be able to pick up one of these used in your price range.

[MXDAD]

Well I went today and picked up an Art & Lutherie. It is laminated but no press board... :-)

It sounds so much nicer then my buddies Yamaha. I think it was an F-325 and only about 60 bucks more.

I was able to play the note I could not on my buddies as well. I put a caliper on his and this one. The A&L is just over .100” wider in the neck but the first and last string are closer to the edges and assuming they are all spaced the same it would be better spaced (for me) than the Yamaha.

Now if I can just lean to play it!

Thanks for everyone’s tips and guidance.

Martin I have been searching all the used stores and online spots locally for a few weeks. There has been little in my price range. Just the 50 dollar or 500+ units.

[elindso]

Go get a Mel Bay book and start practising:smile:

Congrats, welcome to the fold.

Now the chicks will love you.

[Mahogany Martin]

"... and only about 60 bucks more."

Great! Congratulations!

[Scottone]

As the long as the guitar can be setup decently it should be fine. Learning on a crappy setup only makes learning that much harder.

.02

Great point...I started on a Yamaki acoustic with the world's worst set-up and it did hold me back as I couldn't make a barre chord ring out clearly to save my life. Things got a lot easier when I "upgraded" to a Ventura Bruno that had a decent set-up.

[david henman]

Now if I can just lean to play it!


...grab a songbook by your favourite artist. instructional dvds are great, too.

the bottom line: it matters little "what" you practice, as long as you devote time each day to playing.

-dh

[elindso]

...grab a songbook by your favourite artist. instructional dvds are great, too.

the bottom line: it matters little "what" you practice, as long as you devote time each day to playing.

-dh

That is so true. It's what I tell my kid. Playing anything is better than not playing.

[MXDAD]

OMG! This is not easy! :-) But you guys already knew that!

I picked up 2 books: The Complete Guitar Player with CD and another, not in front of me right now but titled something like, Beginning Guitar for Adults.

I guess my plan is to work through both of these books then see about a book of songs from music I like.
I will have to find something I like that a) I can play on acoustic and b) is within my abilities. This will not be easy!

I must admit I must have never really “listened” that closely to what was played acoustic vs electric as I struggle now to look back at what I enjoyed over the years. These days most of my listening is so influenced buy my kids and what they play.

Gezzz this is hard on the fingers. I can do about 5 or 10 mins then my fingers hurt to much and I sound even worse… I quickly reach a point where I can’t feel the string under my fingers and I end up not pressing one finger hard enough and have a buzzing or flat sound. So I have been playing till the pain sets in then coming back to it as the night allows, dam wife and kids interfering with my practice! :-)

I have a few chords sounding similar to what I think they should but transitioning from chord to chord is brutal!

I have to say I’m really beginning to appreciate the time and effort that went into it when I listen to SRV and so many others.

Any words of wisdom?

[Smurf42]

"the bottom line: it matters little "what" you practice, as long as you devote time each day to playing."


This is true, to a point I think. Grab a book of songs YOU like, and chose2 of them. Then sit down with the goal of learning them right. Everyones practice routine is different, but I always have "2 to learn" at any one time. This gives you a goal to reach, and once you reach it, it is a very satisfying feeling.

Most of my time, tho, is spent learning how to switch chords cleanly, and working on my timing by using a metronome every time I sit down to practice! As a drummer of 35 years timing is my job, but using a metronome takes a load off so I can focus on my playing and fingering.

The main thing is to have FUN with it!

[gerald guerrero]

Hey, Ive got 2 vintage Fenders and 3 vintage Gibsons, but if I did, I would still buy a great guitar like dot-on-shaft or Epiphone. No, they arent Gibsons and you can tell, but they are definitly nice.

[madog99]

You can't go wrong with those A&L's , real guitar for an unreal price and they hold up very well. you might want to try light strings to start out with if your fingers keep hurting and look for a one of those "songs of ARTIST made easy" song books , they dumb it down to the basic chords , I had a Dylan book that I learned with like that.
enjoy

OMG! This is not easy! :-) But you guys already knew that!

I picked up 2 books: The Complete Guitar Player with CD and another, not in front of me right now but titled something like, Beginning Guitar for Adults.

I guess my plan is to work through both of these books then see about a book of songs from music I like.
I will have to find something I like that a) I can play on acoustic and b) is within my abilities. This will not be easy!

I must admit I must have never really “listened” that closely to what was played acoustic vs electric as I struggle now to look back at what I enjoyed over the years. These days most of my listening is so influenced buy my kids and what they play.

Gezzz this is hard on the fingers. I can do about 5 or 10 mins then my fingers hurt to much and I sound even worse… I quickly reach a point where I can’t feel the string under my fingers and I end up not pressing one finger hard enough and have a buzzing or flat sound. So I have been playing till the pain sets in then coming back to it as the night allows, dam wife and kids interfering with my practice! :-)

I have a few chords sounding similar to what I think they should but transitioning from chord to chord is brutal!

I have to say I’m really beginning to appreciate the time and effort that went into it when I listen to SRV and so many others.

Any words of wisdom?

[aaron]

As far as the painfull finger's go,Just play untill they hurt and put the guitar down for a bit,when they stop hurting play a little more.This condition goes away as your finger's develope.(probally a week or so).As far as chord changes go,I usd to suggest to my student's to take 2 basic chord's such as G and D and spend some time just changing between those 2,when they get smooth throw in a C.With practice you wont be thinking"ok,this finger goes here and this one here..."all that will enter your head is "C" and your finger's will automatically find their position's without thinking about it.
This is a great site and I am sure many here will be willing to give you tip's and awnser any question's you may have.
Take Care
Aaron