Pricing for PA rental with tech

[Milkman]

Hey everyone,

I suppose I could just call around for quotes, but.....


I own a Yorkville sound PA. It's a nice stereo rig with 11,000 watts FOH including 18" Elite powered subs, 1600 watts for monitors (two discrete mixes) and the normal effects, EQ, crossover rack. The board is 22 channels. I can easily do a rink with it. Lots of mics and DIs. It really sounds fantastic.


I bought it to use with my band and we really only gig about once a month.

When I'm not gigging, I accept sound gigs and these are coming more and more frequently. I'm getting referrals from the local stores and actually, I love doing sound.



My question is this. What would you expect to pay, including the soundman (nobody runs this rig except me and my regular soundman), to hire a rig like this for a night?

I'd like to be just shy of the big production companies.

Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks

[GuitarsCanada]

This unit here lists for $630.00 per night.

This system will give excellent results for live concerts in a medium sized venue where the whole band will be mic'ed, and will cover an audience of up to 250 people. A 16-channel Mackie mixer with basic effects rack provides a simple control interface with a small footprint. A set of mics & stands sufficient for a 4 or 5-piece guitar band are included and monitoring is covered by four wedges on two mixes. A 25m multicore will allow mixing from the back of the hall in most venues.

Logic System 2kW 16-channel:
2 x CM15 tops, 2 x LS115 subs, Mackie mixer, basic effects rack, 2kW amp, 4 x Yamaha monitors,
2-way monitor mix, 10 x mics

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/lespauldouble/pals2k16.gif

Medium Systems
For medium-sized venues where a powerful full-range system is required. The 8- 12- and 16-channel systems have been designed for easy set-up and operation and are ideal for "dry" hires. The 24-channel system offers most of the features of our larger concert systems at a very attractive price.

[Milkman]

This unit here lists for $630.00 per night.





http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/lespauldouble/pals2k16.gif


Wow, thanks. I'm definitely providing a bigger system with more features for less money.

Does that $630 include a soundman?

I was feeling guilty for charging $400. for my system. I guess I'll get over it, LOL.

I appreciate the help.

[GuitarsCanada]

I found this on a website Milkman, it was unlcear if there was a tech included. It sounds as if there was some assistance provided with the price.

[Milkman]

I found this on a website Milkman, it was unlcear if there was a tech included. It sounds as if there was some assistance provided with the price.


Well thanks. I guess I could do this stuff for myself, but I'm not as skilled at searching for stuff like this as many people are.

This is very helpful. I've always assumed that I was being competitive, but like I said, I'm way less expensive for a much bigger system.

Plus, I LOVE doing sound and I really work hard to make the bands sound good. I'll use this information in my bidding process.


I appreciate it.

[sesroh]

that PA is massive. i have the yorkville MP8(i think thats the model). 600watts maybe, a bitch to carry and doesnt even sound that good. our band split the cost of 1800 between the 3 of us and we rarely use the thing because its probably as loud as a 50watt guitar amp. lame

[Milkman]

that PA is massive. i have the yorkville MP8(i think thats the model). 600watts maybe, a bitch to carry and doesnt even sound that good. our band split the cost of 1800 between the 3 of us and we rarely use the thing because its probably as loud as a 50watt guitar amp. lame


I suspect mine sounds a bit better.

600 watts for a PA is really only a rehearsal system.


Truthfully mine isn't huge in terms of physical size. It all fits in a large van.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/MikeLaPointe/MilkmanvsThebigguys.jpg

[Mahogany Martin]

I'd like to be just shy of the big production companies.
Thanks

Interesting thread Milkman. I won’t try to answer your question in terms of how much would someone expect to pay but I’ll simply rhetorically question the feasibility and commitment aspects of you endeavors based on the “good ol’ days vs today”:

In the good ol’ days, the systems were more expensive to purchase. The boards (and the equipment in general) were bulkier and a band could not really have the board on the side of the stage. This meant that you needed the extra hands to set it up and operate it from out there (on the floor).

Today’s systems are much more affordable and compact. A band playing gigs in pubs and clubs a few times a month would most likely want to invest than rent. That same system might even serve the band for larger venues (renting extra bins?). And if you’d hook up with a band playing larger venues, wouldn’t that imply touring? And if so, wouldn’t you have to commit for longer terms?

[Milkman]

Interesting thread Milkman. I won’t try to answer your question in terms of how much would someone expect to pay but I’ll simply rhetorically question the feasibility and commitment aspects of you endeavors based on the “good ol’ days vs today”:

In the good ol’ days, the systems were more expensive to purchase. The boards (and the equipment in general) were bulkier and a band could not really have the board on the side of the stage. This meant that you needed the extra hands to set it up and operate it from out there (on the floor).

Today’s systems are much more affordable and compact. A band playing gigs in pubs and clubs a few times a month would most likely want to invest than rent. That same system might even serve the band for larger venues (renting extra bins?). And if you’d hook up with a band playing larger venues, wouldn’t that imply touring? And if so, wouldn’t you have to commit for longer terms?


I understand your logic in terms of the physical size of a PA today versus the old systems, but here's where I disagree. Mixing from the stage is simply something I won't do. If the club is too small to accomodate a remote mix, I don't accept the gig. I have seen and heard far too many mediocre or just plain terrible mixes when someone who can't hear the mains tries to mix them. It can be done, but the results are NEVER as good as a soundman out front. I know lots of people will disagree and that's their perogative. When I play a gig as a musician it's not about money. I want to sound as good as I can, as if the gig is the last I'll ever play. Anyway, there's no way you'd want my board on stage with you. It's not much smaller than a 400B.

Bear in mind that I only really want to work the system one weekend or may be two every month in addition to my band gigs.

I'm doing mostly special events, gigs thrown by bands or small fairground shows, things of that nature. I've been getting one a month or every other month with ZERO advertisement or organization, just referrals from the local music stores.


I just wanted to know if I was priced in the right range. If anything, I think I'm on the low side for what I bring.

[GuitarsCanada]

Hey Milkman, I found this stuff for sale. It's on the east coast. Posted for $2700 CDN. I have no idea whether that is a good deal or not.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/lespauldouble/PA_2.jpg

[Milkman]

Hey Milkman, I found this stuff for sale. It's on the east coast. Posted for $2700 CDN. I have no idea whether that is a good deal or not.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/lespauldouble/PA_2.jpg


Don't really know about the value of that rig. I have used Peavey Black Widow drivers and Yamaha power amps before and had good results with them, but I can't really say about the other stuff.

[G.A.S. Man]

Milkman... Would you travel as for as Newmarket/Richmond Hill to do sound?

[Milkman]

Milkman... Would you travel as for as Newmarket/Richmond Hill to do sound?


Of sure. I'd need a little extra for gas but I'd say a two hour radius from Brantford is reasonable and Newmarket is within that.

[Hamm Guitars]

You're really light on subs. With 2 tops a side, you should have 4 bottoms a side.

Your PA with a tech, is worth about $450 a night, plus fuel. You need lights, and six more bottoms to get that in Southern Ontario though - there is way too much gear out there right now.

Been doing sound for the last 20 years, most of it in Southern Ontario.

You may want to try getting a House Gig - I hear the Oakwood in Hamilton is looking for a PA, but beware the owner can be a real dick. House gigs pay less per night, but at least they are steady work.

[Milkman]

Four LS800P subs a side?



I don't think so.



I occasionally use two per side but that's 6kw of subs with 3600 for mids and high end.

Eight of these subs would be 12kw.


I've got TONS of bottom in clubs in the 300 bodies range. Generally using two of them I'm running them at just past fifty percent.


With most subs I've used in past years I'd say you were right. Not with these.

[RIFF WRATH]

There was a 2 band charity gig in Elmira recently.
Cost for sound system and tech was $1000.00. Sound check at 4pm, show from 8 to 1
cheers
RIFF

[Milkman]

There was a 2 band charity gig in Elmira recently.
Cost for sound system and tech was $1000.00. Sound check at 4pm, show from 8 to 1
cheers
RIFF


Thanks Riff.

I think your numbers are in line with many production companies. Of course it all depends on how much gear is involved.

Really I have no desire to be working my system every weekend. I play once or twice a month and would only accept one additional engagement to do sound.

When I do it, I love doing it, but I need a weekend off every month and my pricing is very competitive.

[Hamm Guitars]

Yeah, you have 4 15's for mids and 4 1" Horns (or are they 2"?). Your top end will out run your bottom end with no trouble at all.

I know where you can get some unloaded double 18 birch cabinets for a fairly cheap price if you are interested. They go incredibly low, but they are short range. Two of those a side would match you up pretty good.

I also know someone that will clone your existing bottom cabinets for a decent price. He doesn't finish them, he just builds the cabinets.

Andy



Four LS800P subs a side?



I don't think so.



I occasionally use two per side but that's 6kw of subs with 3600 for mids and high end.

Eight of these subs would be 12kw.


I've got TONS of bottom in clubs in the 300 bodies range. Generally using two of them I'm running them at just past fifty percent.


With most subs I've used in past years I'd say you were right. Not with these.

[Milkman]

Yeah, you have 4 15's for mids and 4 1" Horns (or are they 2"?). Your top end will out run your bottom end with no trouble at all.

I know where you can get some unloaded double 18 birch cabinets for a fairly cheap price if you are interested. They go incredibly low, but they are short range. Two of those a side would match you up pretty good.

I also know someone that will clone your existing bottom cabinets for a decent price. He doesn't finish them, he just builds the cabinets.

Andy

Well I honestly have to disagree. Having mixed with this system using two and sometimes four of these powered subs, it's just incomprehensible to me that I would want four of them a side with my existing mids and highs.

Using four of them (2 per side) in a large building, I have them loafing and still delivering punishing bottom if I want. Even with two of them I can easily overpower the rest of the system if I desire.

I'm sure you would have a similar impression if you were to stand in the room.

Again, back when I was using Butterfly bins, Klipsch, and JBL subs yes, three or four a side was needed.


Yes, I have 4 x 15, 2 x 1" horns and four piezos per side, plus either 1 X 18 (powered by 1500 watts) or 2 X 18 (3000 watts) per side.

[Paul]

Hey Milkman!!!

When you take your full PA rig out how long is the set up time, from the time you back the truck up to the door until the time you are finished sound check? Assume this is a sound gig, and you aren't playing.

[Milkman]

Hey Milkman!!!

When you take your full PA rig out how long is the set up time, from the time you back the truck up to the door until the time you are finished sound check? Assume this is a sound gig, and you aren't playing.


Without lights, 1.5 hours ready to play.

It really depends on the room to an extent. If I've set up in a room before, the set up is much quicker.


With a lighting rig and 220 disconnect it takes another hour.

[Paul]

Without lights, 1.5 hours ready to play.

It really depends on the room to an extent. If I've set up in a room before, the set up is much quicker.


With a lighting rig and 220 disconnect it takes another hour.

Thanks, I'm working on putting something together, and your PA rig would solve a lot of problems if and when we get gigs. I'll make you first call if/when we're ready.

[Milkman]

Thanks, I'm working on putting something together, and your PA rig would solve a lot of problems if and when we get gigs. I'll make you first call if/when we're ready.


Thanks Paul,

By the way, I would never expect anyone to take my word for how the system sounds.

I have a list of past and present clients I'd be happy to share with you, any of which I would encourage you to contact.


Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you need more information.