Need help w/ pedal board order...

[WEEZY]

Currently I have my board in this order:

GUITAR > Tuner > Wah Pedal > Whammy Wah > Overdrive > Compressor > Phase > Analog Delay > Digital Delay > AMP

I like having the compressor before the overdrive... and I use the Wah and OD together quite often, so having the wah before the compressor also works for me... then I added the Whammy Wah and figured it needed to go before the compressor too...

Everything sounds almost perfect but I'm getting some distortion from the digital delay and there's a feedback issue with the OD that I didn't have previously. Otherwise the tones are great.

Does anyone have any advice as to how to fix the situation? I have tried a lot of different positions and this has been the best so far... the delay distortion is the biggest problem right now - I need it clean.

Any help is much appreciated!

[Paul]

Currently I have my board in this order:

GUITAR > Tuner > Wah Pedal > Whammy Wah > Overdrive > Compressor > Phase > Analog Delay > Digital Delay > AMP

I like having the compressor before the overdrive... and I use the Wah and OD together quite often, so having the wah before the compressor also works for me... then I added the Whammy Wah and figured it needed to go before the compressor too...

Everything sounds almost perfect but I'm getting some distortion from the digital delay and there's a feedback issue with the OD that I didn't have previously. Otherwise the tones are great.

Does anyone have any advice as to how to fix the situation? I have tried a lot of different positions and this has been the best so far... the delay distortion is the biggest problem right now - I need it clean.

Any help is much appreciated!

I prefer compressors ahead of distortion/overdrive/fuzz pedals. The compressors tend to boost the hisses, etc, from the noise boxes. The Whammy Wah is more in line with a pitch shifter than an EQ filter type effect, so I'd be tempted to put the Whammy Wah either immediately before, or immediately after the phase shifter.

My first guess for the digital delay distortion is a power problem. Is it getting enough power? If you are using a daisy chain power supply system, try using a fresh battery in the digital delay and see it the distortions disappear. Try using a dedicated wall-wart power supply. Try using only batteries in all pedals, and then one by one change to a power supply to see if the problem appears or changes.

Good Luck.

[WEEZY]

Thanks a lot Paul. I hadn't thought about power.. or controllable levels for that matter.

I tried the compressor before everything, but my wah sounded really distorted and my clean sound wasn't so clean anymore. So I put the Wah and OD before the compressor (I like the smooth sound it creates) followed by the Whammy Wah, Phaser and delay's. I also tweaked the volume level-knob of the Whammy wah way down to about 3 (I forgot abut that control - I think it was cranked-up) and turned up the master volume on the amp to compensate - so nothing that should be clean comes out distorted.

Now she sounds near-perfect...

Thanks again for your help!!

[mhammer]

Compressors "work" by cranking the daylights out of the signal as a default setting, and backing off on the gain when the incoming signal goes up. As a result, it treats any hiss it sees at its input as if it were low level signal in need of a boost. This is why so many DIY folks who are starting out, and first-time compressor users, wonder if the dang pedal is functioning right. They hear all this noise and wonder what gives.

IF the signal source is pristine, either because there is no accumulated hum or hiss before it reaches the compressor, or because you stick some form of noise control before it, you can stick that compressor anywhere you like without suffering ill effects. (I suppose you can stick it wherever you like even in the absence of those conditions but you won't like how it sounds) If there is any risk, however, that the signal reaching the compressor will have picked up some hiss and/or hum on the way, just like that cold you picked up at the last sporting event you went to, you will probably want to move it as close to the front of the line as you can, where there is less cumulative hiss and hum.

Note as well, that compressors are intended to reduce dynamics. That can make it:
a) easier to "see" the pitch of a note on a tuner
b) easier to maintain a specific degree of bite from a distortion pedal
c) harder to introduce dynamics to any sort of device that depends on detecting dynamics, like an autowah

Finally, distortions, by their very nature, reduce dynamics. Compressors, by their very nature, need to be able to detect dynamics in order to properly adjust the gain. Killing the dynamics before the compressor essential renders it unable to do its job. If you use light distortion, maybe, but heavy distortion, nah.

[WEEZY]

Interesting, thanks for the info!

I always used to have the compressor before everything, but I tried it before the OD a while back and really liked the sound. When I click on the OD, there is no harsh volume change, just a smooth segue into distortion. Also, having the Wah before the compressor gives it a smooth synthesizer sound - which I really dig. I guess my signal is fairly clean as I haven't had any issues with the hiss or hum pre-compressor... I know it's not the recommended spot for it, but for some reason it works better to me after the OD and Wah. I will never stop experimenting with the placement though... cheers!

[mhammer]

Because compressors generally function by reducing gain in response to increases in input signal, they have the potential to ADD clean gain if you set them for fairly light compression (i.e., set them for less gain reduction). So if you place one after some form of distortion pedal, it can serve like a post-clip booster, such as are starting to crop up on many pedals these days.

Set for modest clipping, and similarly modest compression, a distortion/compressor pairing can provide a nice solo boost with some reasonable dynamics retained, and enough juice to provide a pleasing combination of pedal and amplifier distortion.

I still stand by my caveats about what problems you can run into by using that order, but like anything in life, there are going to be circumstances where it is not a problem.

Personally, I have felt for a long time that many distortion pedals should come with a send-receive loop and an "order-flipper" footswitch so that you could stick the distortion before OR after whatever you wanted without having to move stuff around on a pedalboard or unplug and replug pedals.

[Ripper]

When I use a compressor I always put it right after my wah and before anything else. It is really a matter of personal taste and preference. With compressors though, when setting them, less is more.

[Skoczylas]

This should give you a brief idea of the 'standard' ways of setting things up. Of course it varies from person to person as you experiment with your pedal order to find the best order to enhance your tone.

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pedals2os0.jpg

[KHINGPYNN]

I like the Delay after the wah but before the drive pedals...

tuner, wah, delay/chorus/flange, drive/dostortion.

[puckhead]

any opinion on this setup?

guitar
Boss CS3 Compression Sustainer
Morley Classic Wah
Behringer UP100 (Ultra Phase Shifter)
Electro Harmix Big Muff Pi
Behringer AM100 (Accoustic modeler)
Boss RC2 Loop station
BBE Sonic Stomp Maximizer
amp (usually a Fender Deluxe 900)

I have gotten advice on the CS3 at the beginning, or right before the BBE. I'm not sure of the pros or cons.

Follow-up question:
any pedal you think I am desperately missing? I know the easy answer is "well, depends what you want to do". I am pretty pleased with the overall sound I can get, but just mainly looking for new tricks when playing leads. I'm thinking a delay or an octaver? though I'm not quite sure.

any advice/opinions appreciated.

[Paul]

any opinion on this setup?

guitar
Boss CS3 Compression Sustainer
Morley Classic Wah
Behringer UP100 (Ultra Phase Shifter)
Electro Harmix Big Muff Pi
Behringer AM100 (Accoustic modeler)
Boss RC2 Loop station
BBE Sonic Stomp Maximizer
amp (usually a Fender Deluxe 900)

I have gotten advice on the CS3 at the beginning, or right before the BBE. I'm not sure of the pros or cons.

Follow-up question:
any pedal you think I am desperately missing? I know the easy answer is "well, depends what you want to do". I am pretty pleased with the overall sound I can get, but just mainly looking for new tricks when playing leads. I'm thinking a delay or an octaver? though I'm not quite sure.

any advice/opinions appreciated.

If you like the sound, good on ya. I'd have the phaser later in the chain. Lots of folks love delay, (I have three), but to me delay is a bit like currie, too much is waaaaaay too much.

For new tricks playing leads......learn to find more interesting notes, as well as looking for more interesting sounds. Learn what a tri-tone subsititution is, and when you can apply it tastefully.

[puckhead]

thanks for the feedback. I'll shift around the phaser and see what it does.
I am looking forward to figuring out the loopstation (just got it), and will definintely be on the lookout for a deal on a delay pedal.

[mhammer]

As with fuzz-wah vs wah-fuzz, there is no "correct" order. The two sequences merely produce different outcomes. Same is true with phaser-fuzz vs fuzz-phaser. It,s up to you, and maybe the physical shape/size of the pedals and whatever is convenient, to determine which order works best for you.

Phasers produce notches and peaks. Distortions produce clipping as the signal amplitude reaches and exceeds a certain critical threshold. When phasers are inserted after a distortion they result in the accentuation and de-accentuation of harmonic content already produced. Even when notches are created by the phaser, the additional harmonic content from the fuzz is there in the background, just lower. In contrast, when a phaser is placed before a distortion, those same notches and peaks determine how far away or close to the critical threshold a note is going to be. In other words, the phaser determines how distorted any given note is going to be and what harmonic content will be generated. It sounds different.

It would be best illustrated with a soundclip, but I'm at work and amps and pedalboards are frowned upon in the office.:mad: So, the best way to describe it in words is to say that fuzz->phaser sounds more focussed and resonant, where phaser->fuzz sounds less focussed and more "swirly".

[WEEZY]

....I have changed things since I first posted this... and it's working out really well for me:

guitar > tuner > wah > OCD > compressor > TS-9 > whammy wah > Analog delay DM-3 > digital delay DD-3 > amp

I only use one delay at a time and one OD at a time - this gives me everything I need and more... LOVE IT.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3977/img2494mg7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/img2494mg7.jpg/1/w480.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img177/img2494mg7.jpg/1/)